What will happen to ex-WSMR stock?

[jopsuk]

Given Chiltern have already been "borrowing" a set- Monday?

 

[43167]

As Chiltern run Standard-only, I wonder if by Monday they'll have re-marshalled the WSMR stock into two Standard-only rakes, allowing them to take the blue-grey & ex-Virgin rake out?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Whilst the Restaurant coaches are a different proposition, isn't the only difference between a Mrk 3 FO and TSO the seating? They've the same bodyshell, same window arrangement.

Very easy, Some HST TS's & TF's have been changed to one or the other over the years.

Even now, one of Cargo-D's FO's is seated as a TSO. It was used on the Hartlepools last august.

 

[saracen43]

I have read in another thread that possibly 75% of the chiltern services could go loco hauled, i wonder is there enough spare rolling stock and 67s to achieve this, also would it be cost effective.

 

[sprinterguy]

I have read in another thread that possibly 75% of the chiltern services could go loco hauled, i wonder is there enough spare rolling stock and 67s to achieve this, also would it be cost effective.

There's at least 9 trains required on the London-Birmingham runs, probably a couple more: That'd mean about 7 loco hauled rakes: I think that, excluding the Wrexham and Shropshire rakes, the number of mark 3s owned by DB (Including the former DRS carriages) would stretch to 5 or 6 four carriage trains.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Yes, original Intercity 70 seats re-upholstered and rearranged a bit. I don’t know what Chilterns’ plans for the interiors would be though.

Thanks.

From what everyone is saying there's no risk of Chiltern removing the coaches from service this year, so it looks like I don't need to rush up to Wrexham tommorow to get a ride on that rolling stock. I was hopeing to take a trip on WSMR in the summer you see, I guess it'll have to be a Chiltern service from Moor Street now.

 

[williamn]

I read somewhere that Chiltern are looking at imporving the catering on their trains. So maybe the buffet will stay after all.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I have read in another thread that possibly 75% of the chiltern services could go loco hauled, i wonder is there enough spare rolling stock and 67s to achieve this, also would it be cost effective.

I can only imagine that 75% of Chiltern services applies to the London-Birmingham services only, surely not everything out of Marylebone ?.

If the above is true then that is still going to result in quite a few spare 165/166/168s so I can imagine some 165s going to GW where the rest are. GW could use more units OR shed some 158s.

Chiltern might pass on the 172s as they are rather a small fleet - i.e. non-standard. The time to do it would be before driver and fitter training occurs and before Aylesbury depot starts taking on an inventory of spares.

 

[tbtc]

Chiltern might pass on the 172s as they are rather a small fleet - i.e. non-standard. The time to do it would be before driver and fitter training occurs and before Aylesbury depot starts taking on an inventory of spares.

I argued that Chiltern should release their 172s *if* they got some loco-hauled sets to run London - Birmingham that would release 168s to cover 165 duties (etc).

However, I was told that the gearing of the 172s was set up to accelerate/ decellerate right for the "short" trips they will be running, and that 165s couldn't cope with that (so would delay the train behind, thus ruining the Evergreen idea).

Was this right?

 

[The Planner]

Yes, they need the 172s

 

[Peter Sarf]

I argued that Chiltern should release their 172s *if* they got some loco-hauled sets to run London - Birmingham that would release 168s to cover 165 duties (etc).

However, I was told that the gearing of the 172s was set up to accelerate/ decellerate right for the "short" trips they will be running, and that 165s couldn't cope with that (so would delay the train behind, thus ruining the Evergreen idea).

Was this right?

Ah I see. Presumably the 67s + MK3s will be OK as they do not have to accelerate much (less stops) so top speed is their usefull feature although we are not talking about large trailing loads (yet) anyway ?. I suppose the 172s are geared to fit in on stopping services between the 67s then. Like the 350s can accelerate out of the way of Pendolinos .

That would be the selling point of the 172s then - better power to weight ratio than a 170 (&168) and choice of acceleration versus top-speed (choice of gear ratios). Of course an electric unit would be even better .

 

[saracen43]

Maybe they could be put to good use on the M,bone to stratford upon avon,or kidderminster services.

 

[Daimler]

According to Chiltern's twitter page, the services running that use WSMR stock at the moment will stop running after tomorrow.

http://twitter.com/chilternrailway/status/30240308566429696

That said, another tweet seems to confirm that the stock will be re-leased to Chiltern.

 

[43167]

According to Chiltern's twitter page, the services running that use WSMR stock at the moment will stop running after tomorrow.

http://twitter.com/chilternrailway/status/30240308566429696

That said, another tweet seems to confirm that the stock will be re-leased to Chiltern.

To me, that looks like they are informing people the WSMR services are to stop running. Not the Chiltern services that uses WSMR stock.

If it was, why only put up posters at Leamington & Banbury?.

 

[Daimler]

To me, that looks like they are informing people the WSMR services are to stop running. Not the Chiltern services that uses WSMR stock.

If it was, why only put up posters at Leamington & Banbury?.

I can see why you'd say that based on the wording of the message. However, the message was posted in reply to someone asking what would happen to those Chiltern services that used WSMR stock.

 

[swt_passenger]

I can only imagine that 75% of Chiltern services applies to the London-Birmingham services only, surely not everything out of Marylebone ?.

If the above is true then that is still going to result in quite a few spare 165/166/168s so I can imagine some 165s going to GW where the rest are. GW could use more units OR shed some 158s.

Probably means 75% of the faster Birmingham service each hour only - and then not until Evergreen 3 to Oxford is finished anyway. The additional LHCS allows for the 168s which will be needed for the 2 tph service to Oxford via Bicester, in 2013 IF it is all approved, and finished by then.

There'll be no 'spare' DMUs...

 

[Aictos]

My question is what will happen to the stock once eventually Chiltern's own Mk3s with power doors come into service?

Will they be kept to run with the Chiltern Mk3s or will DB lease them so they're used elsewhere which leads to my second such question, when will the wires be operational between Blackpool and Preston?

 

[sonic2009]

I reckon the wsmr stock, should go to arriva. Replace the shoddy carraiges they have on wag atm! Albeit the first class buffet may be a bit small for the restraunt service, I'm sure they could sort something, its such a shame to see wsmr go,

 

[craig87034]

The stock is going back to Wembley via the WCML this morning as 5P03 ta to D1011 Western Thunderer

 

[route:oxford]

My question is what will happen to the stock once eventually Chiltern's own Mk3s with power doors come into service?

Well, you'd hope that they would continue and "power-door" all of their Mk3 stock.

It would become a valuable go-anywhere asset.

 

[TDK]

my guess is they will stay with chiltern, the problem with the 67's on long distance routes is the size of the fuel tank, 1200 litres i believe

Erm try 5500 litres from completely empty to full

 

[rail-britain]

Erm try 5500 litres from completely empty to full

Which should return a range of at least 1200 miles

 

[northernrail]

Whats happened to the 67's??

 

[ainsworth74]

One assumes that they will be handed back to DBS and will probably be de-branded. But that is guesswork on my part, TDK might know for sure.

 

[RPM]

Well one WSMR set was in use with Chiltern this morning, working the same early morning service from Moor Street that was worked by a Wrexham set prior to their demise. A WSMR silver coach has also replaced one of the blue & grey coaches in the Chiltern loco hauled set that works to/from Banbury. It is the one with WSMR livery but the unrefurbished interior (12059 IIRC).
The Chiltern set now comprises of vehicles in a total of 5 different liveries: EWS (67001), Virgin, BR blue, WSMR silver, Chiltern blue & white (DVT).

 

[anthony263]

Maybe ATW could have some for the WAG express. with Arriva having loco hauled stock sitting around all day and since they are paying so much for it why not get more use out of the stock. Maybe if they have class 67's & DVT'S maybe runn all of the cardiff - holyhead services using loco hauled stock to enable the class 175's to boost capacity on the Milford Haven - Manchester route which is frequently overcrowded

 

[Daimler]

Well one WSMR set was in use with Chiltern this morning, working the same early morning service from Moor Street that was worked by a Wrexham set prior to their demise. A WSMR silver coach has also replaced one of the blue & grey coaches in the Chiltern loco hauled set that works to/from Banbury. It is the one with WSMR livery but the unrefurbished interior (12059 IIRC).
The Chiltern set now comprises of vehicles in a total of 5 different liveries: EWS (67001), Virgin, BR blue, WSMR silver, Chiltern blue & white (DVT).

Ah, I'd clearly misunderstood the Chiltern twitter page, then!

 

[TDK]

Which should return a range of at least 1200 miles

Not far off - WSMR would do 1000 miles between refuelling
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One assumes that they will be handed back to DBS and will probably be de-branded. But that is guesswork on my part, TDK might know for sure.

The locos were leased from DBS as all the 67's are so no need to hand them back as such as they are theirs anyway. I am not sure what will happen to the WSMR livery, it would be nice to keep one loco in the livery but rebrand the transfers however I doubt this will happen.

 

[Voyager 2093]

Not far off - WSMR would do 1000 miles between refuelling
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The locos were leased from DBS as all the 67's are so no need to hand them back as such as they are theirs anyway. I am not sure what will happen to the WSMR livery, it would be nice to keep one loco in the livery but rebrand the transfers however I doubt this will happen.

I'm not sure if this is excitement kicking in but I did hear somewhere that the WSMR Stock was to be re-branded before the discontinuation of the company was announced.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Maybe ATW could have some for the WAG express. with Arriva having loco hauled stock sitting around all day and since they are paying so much for it why not get more use out of the stock. Maybe if they have class 67's & DVT'S maybe runn all of the cardiff - holyhead services using loco hauled stock to enable the class 175's to boost capacity on the Milford Haven - Manchester route which is frequently overcrowded

They could take over the Birmingham - Holyheads when the Cambrian main line service goes hourly (which will probablly screw up the current practice of interworking 158 diagrams over the Holyhead and Cambrian services). The 3 158s needed to provide a decent (2-hourly) level of service to Fishguard (from Cardiff, via the Swansea District Line) could then be made available and further released 158s could be used on new services elsewhere (Wrexham Central - Manchester, Llandudno - Holyhead or limited stop Heart Of Wales trains).

The suggestion I sent to my AM a while back was to use 47s or 57s with mrk2 coaches and the 6 remaining DBSOs (with 5 sets in service per day (2 with mrk3 buffets on Holyhead - Cardiff and the other three on the Birmingham - Holyheads), releasing 6 158s and possiblly a 175 depending on if the 2nd buffet train displaces an existing service).

Now WSMR's gone, if you made both north-south expresses into mrk3 sets that's 5 mrk2 trains displacing 10 158s (provided there are that number of Birmingham - Holyhead diagrams to replace), the service improvments would be major. Another idea I had for the WSMR stock is to extend some of the Holyhead - Birminghams through to Marylebone, but I'm not sure you if you'd be able to find paths from Wolves to the Chiltern line. Going by Google Earth, the route to Moor Street and Snow Hill from that direction appears to have had a short section lifted with the rest being for trams only.

 

[colchesterken]

I think all useable mk 2 and 3 s should go to Norwich cos they know about push pull
with all stored DBSO and DVTs and class 67 and 90 s
They could make up sets for use on Norwich cross country routes and the electrics to
the main line
That would free up go anyware 170s and 360s for use elswhere
That is being selfish because I prefer coaches and locos to emu.s and dmu s