Rubish.
The Network Railcard was introduced in the mid 1980s by Network SouthEast to encourage travel at off peak times. Do you really think ares in the south east would be reduced if the Network Railcard were abolished?
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Travelcard prices - Chelmsford
- Thread starter Acton1991
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The Network Railcard was introduced in the mid 1980s by Network SouthEast to encourage travel at off peak times. Do you really think ares in the south east would be reduced if the Network Railcard were abolished?
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johncrossley
Established Member
Fares might not have gone up quite as much over the last 40 years without the railcard. The cost of the railcard has to be recovered somehow. Undoubtedly some extra passengers will be attracted by the railcard, but enough to recoup the lost revenue? If it was such a 'no brainer', then we would have a similar railcard for the whole country.
If you look at the SBB journey planner, it shows the 50% Half Fare Card discount by default. That's what happens when a railcard becomes ubiquitous. I'd be pretty sure that if the Half Fare card was abolished (as some people in Switzerland are proposing) fares would be reduced substantially to compensate. The Network Railcard is by comparison more of a niche product but there is still probably quite high Network Railcard ownership in SE England.
I dont think that is true. They have gone up more on some journeys not covered by the Network Railcard.
Very difficult to assess that.
There are regional railcards in other parts of the country. The availability of the Network Railcard does not justify a national one open to all. As you say, it isn't a 'no brainer' at all.
It certainly wouldn't be introduced now if it didn't already exist.
Something like 400,000 users isn't it?
Getting back to the travelcard, it is what people tend to buy when they go to London. It also represents a discount, in part to reduce the cost of having to have more ticket issuing facilities on the underground. We have already seen TfL threatening to withdraw from it as they view they would get more revenue if it didn't exist. However, for now the train operating companies and TfL have stuck with it.
johncrossley
Established Member
If it isn't being recovered, then you would have to say that the SE is getting a subsidy denied to the rest of the country.
Arguably the OP is only quoting the Travelcard fare between 0930 and 1000 on weekdays, because the railcard discounted fare is available at all other off-peak times.
Yes, but equally nowhere in the South East has recently benefitted from an offer like the Northern newspaper offer. Is that a subsidy afforded to passengers of Northern that is denied to the rest of the country.
One thing that has been cited in the past is that the Network Railcard does prevent operators in the South East doing their own targeted offers.
johncrossley
Established Member
Presumably the Travelcard (both as a London only ticket and the Outboundary version) was invented in large part to simplify the ticket buying process and reduce queues. So people only had to queue for one ticket in the morning. They didn't have to buy multiple tube tickets and a return ticket home as well. There was also a discount over separate tickets but that was secondary. Since Oyster came in and removed the hassle factor in ticket buying, Travelcards have gone up more than single tube fares, meaning that for a lot of people Travelcards are no longer worthwhile and they aren't even hitting the daily cap.
Off Peak fares are generally more expensive in the south east than in other areas of the country. The Network Railcard mitigates this to some extent, although its benefits have been watered down over the years.
There's nothing to prevent TOCs organising their own special offers, and the Network Railcard doesn't prevent it either.
Much better to have something permanent like the Network Railcard rather than an occasional special offer, in my opinion. For the record I would rather there was a National Railcard as well, available to all.
There's nothing to prevent TOCs organising their own special offers, and the Network Railcard doesn't prevent it either.
Much better to have something permanent like the Network Railcard rather than an occasional special offer, in my opinion. For the record I would rather there was a National Railcard as well, available to all.
Some of this still depends where you're going in London - if you're not venturing into Z1 and making limited numbers of journeys (ie: maybe Stratford to Canary Wharf and back only), you might be able to save some cash by buying a return to Stratford and using Oyster/PAYG for the remainder.
The difference is significantly larger if you're looking at a peak travelcard, naturally.
I just think some folks buy travelcards unnecessarily and whilst they are probably a good deal 90% of the time, there are those outliers where you pay for something you don't make full use of.
The difference is significantly larger if you're looking at a peak travelcard, naturally.
I just think some folks buy travelcards unnecessarily and whilst they are probably a good deal 90% of the time, there are those outliers where you pay for something you don't make full use of.
That is mainly down to Khan's fare freeze. He wasn't allowed to freeze caps or travelcards.
johncrossley
Established Member
The trend started well before Khan. Year after year, Period Travelcards kept going up faster than single tube fares, especially off-peak singles. A major change was when the daily caps were changed to be all day (so more expensive off-peak) and the Zone 2-6 Day Travelcard was abolished. By contrast, off-peak tube singles outside Zone 1 were kept low.
Yes, cheaper off-peak singles was one of the reason for abolishing the avoiding zone 1 caps and travelcards. I'm not disputing that travelcard and cap prices have risen faster than tube singles, rather pointing out that it's a consequence of different people setting the fares. I don't think the gaps widened in March this year, and nor will they while the DfT are controlling TfLs ability to set fares.
johncrossley
Established Member
£26.90 for a travelcard from Ashford, Surrey and we are inside the M25
That's the peak version. Off-peak with a Railcard is £13.10.
From Ashford you can save a lot in peak by getting a TfL bus to Zone 6. A Zone 1 to 6 cap is £14.40.
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To put it in some perspective, an LNWR only one day travelcard from Kidsgrove (and Stoke on Trent etc) to London (valid on 0909 arrive Euston 1150/return from 1746 to 2046 weekdays) is only £47.50. That's around 150 miles each way compared to about 30 miles from Chelmsford to London, and an absolute bargain at five times the distance compared to the Chelmsford fare. The LNWR only Super Off Peak return from Kidsgrove is only £32.00 and, although restricted, could well be a better option for those whose Tfl travel plans takes them well under the one day price cap.
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Not at all in perspective. The Chelmsford price is for the standard offering - the journey from Kidsgrove is on a slow train. The Kidsgrove fare is admittedly a 'bargain'.
The standard off peak offering from Kidsgrove still involves a change of train, onto Avanti at either Stoke or Crewe, and takes between 1h 50m and 2h 15m as opposed to 2 h 40m on the 'slow train', and costs £85.10. There is no day return or travelcard option that incorporates the Avanti fare, although this fare is valid for a month. The £85.10 option also does not permit return travel until 1857, compared to 1746 onwards using LNWR.
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