UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[ashkeba]

You're never, ever going to sell cycling in the tipping rain/strong wind. It just isn't nice even with appropriate clothing. If living without a car, that's a day to take a taxi/the bus/the train, or if it's an option to work from home.

If it ain't nice, either the clothing is inappropriate or sometimes the roads are (getting sprayed by motorists is not fun). Not everyone has public transport or cheap taxis where they live, so ebikes will be vital for sustainability.

But not strong wind, no. That is difficult for all transport to deal.with.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it ain't nice, either the clothing is inappropriate or sometimes the roads are (getting sprayed by motorists is not fun)

No. Going out on a bike in the tipping rain is just unpleasant, even with appropriate clothing. It has to be accepted that the bicycle is not a solution to all transport problems and to concentrate on the ones it's good at.

 

[ashkeba]

No. Going out on a bike in the tipping rain is just unpleasant, even with appropriate clothing. It has to be accepted that the bicycle is not a solution to all transport problems and to concentrate on the ones it's good at.

The rain is irrelevant with the right cape and modern ebikes with good brakes, until it suffices to cause floods. Wind and other traffic are bigger problem that limit more often.

But no need to worry about this here this week. It is excellent cycling weather.

 

[JamesT]

Cities are beginning to ban all new petrol stations

Cities are banning new gas stations. More should join them | Nathan Taft

Gas stations are environmental liabilities and hugely expensive to remediate. Electric cars are making gas stations obsolete – with 80% projected to be unprofitable by 2035

www.theguardian.com

There are plans afoot in the UK to ban new petrol stations in a race between various UK LEZ cities to be the first. I wonder who will jump first, now the first city in the world has initiated it? Fulham is the site of the first Petrol Station in the UK to become an EV charging hub only. In rural areas diminishing returns will result in more Petrol Station closures.

Fuel availability will trump cost in many areas.

I think that's a bit of wishful thinking. The UK's fleet of ICE vehicles won't suddenly evaporate when new sales are banned.
We're not as over-supplied with petrol stations as the US. (One of the comments of that article said the US has 1 per 2,300 people whereas here it's nearer 1 per 8,000).

 

[dcbwhaley]

I think that's a bit of wishful thinking. The UK's fleet of ICE vehicles won't suddenly evaporate when new sales are banned.
We're not as over-supplied with petrol stations as the US. (One of the comments of that article said the US has 1 per 2,300 people whereas here it's nearer 1 per 8,000).

And I am not convinced that the price of batteries will continue to fall The geo politics of lithium extraction will limit that. Just as we are currently being held to ransom by the oil producers thae same could happen with the lithium suppliers. And the same applies to the rare earth elements neede for other parts of EVs

 

[reddragon]

And I am not convinced that the price of batteries will continue to fall The geo politics of lithium extraction will limit that. Just as we are currently being held to ransom by the oil producers thae same could happen with the lithium suppliers. And the same applies to the rare earth elements neede for other parts of EVs

BENF says different and is considered the world authority on this.

Battery Pack Prices Fall to an Average of $132/kWh, But Rising Commodity Prices Start to Bite | BloombergNEF

BloombergNEF’s annual battery price survey finds prices fell 6% from 2020 to 2021 Hong Kong and London, November 30, 2021 – Lithium-ion battery pack prices, which were above $1,200 per kilowatt-hour in 2010, have fallen 89% in real terms to $132/kWh in 2021. This is a 6% drop from $140/kWh in...

about.bnef.com

Battery Pack Prices Fall to an Average of $132/kWh, But Rising Commodity Prices Start to Bite​

Battery tech is moving from the current NMC tech to LPF which is 30% cheaper, under £100 per kw. Silicon batteries are nearly there and are half the price of LPF.

Faster charging speeds and better charger availability will result in smaller batteries, ultra capacitors will reduce size & costs even further.

As the advantages of scale switch from ICEs to EVs, economics will flip considerably and you have to remember that an EV already has the lowest cost of ownership for a car in the majority of cases.

 

[The Ham]

You're never, ever going to sell cycling in the tipping rain/strong wind. It just isn't nice even with appropriate clothing. If living without a car, that's a day to take a taxi/the bus/the train, or if it's an option to work from home.

How often does it actual reason very hard for a prolonged period of time?

I walk to/from work nearly all the time, and or hardly impacts me. The worst time for it to train is the morning when I can't just wait five minutes for it to pass. However, even so, rarely is it an issue.

Yes there's days where it rains a lot, however given that I'm only walking for 30 minutes of a 24 for period there's a lot of time during the day when it could rain and not cause me to get wet.

I've said it before; there are times when the rain is just heavy enough that carry wipers are constant, yet it's not worth stopping to put a waterproof on over my jumper. As such it's likely that car drivers often have a skewed perspective of actually got wet or actually is in this country.

Even at 1 mile of fuel a day and a taxi costing £10 you'd only need there to be less than about 6 days when the weather was really bad for it to be better not to drive. However if your only going 1/2 a mile each way, it's unlikely that it'll cost you £10 in a taxi).

 

[Bletchleyite]

How often does it actual reason very hard for a prolonged period of time?

Depends where you live. Here in the South East it rains a heck of a lot less than in the North West. The typical beigey colour of fields vs. the lush green of the North tells you everything.

 

[paul1609]

Depends where you live. Here in the South East it rains a heck of a lot less than in the North West. The typical beigey colour of fields vs. the lush green of the North tells you everything.

Since when has Milton Keynes been in the south east? Its well north of Watford.

 

[johncrossley]

Since when has Milton Keynes been in the south east? Its well north of Watford.

Milton Keynes is in the ceremonial county of Buckinghamshire and that is in the South East region of England

South East England - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

South East England is one of the nine official regions of England at the first level of ITL for statistical purposes. It consists of the counties of Buckinghamshire

This definition excludes Essex and Hertfordshire even though they are two of the Home Counties. These are officially in the East of England.

Buckinghamshire is also one of the Home Counties, so it is in the 'south east' on that basis too, if you accept that the Home Counties are in the south east.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Since when has Milton Keynes been in the south east? Its well north of Watford.

MK considers itself to be in the South East as it's in the London commuter area and NSE area. It's probably as far north as you can go and still consider that, though. Rugby is definitely south Midlands.

In any case, the "north/south of Watford" thing refers to the Watford Gap which is in Northamptonshire (near a very small village called Watford), not Watford as in Junction.

However, that's utterly irrelevant to the point I made.

 

[reddragon]

Did anyone watch the Top Gear view on EVs broadcast on Sunday? Moderately positive on EVs, drivel on Hydrogen (non starter) and an oil industry type blurb on synthetic fuels!

 

[Cowley]

There’s a thread here now about walking on public highways and there’s also a thread here about cycling on public highways.

Lets keep this one to the discussion of electric vehicles from here please.

Thanks

 

[Bald Rick]

Did anyone watch the Top Gear view on EVs broadcast on Sunday? Moderately positive on EVs, drivel on Hydrogen (non starter) and an oil industry type blurb on synthetic fuels!

Yes, thought it was quite good.

meanwhile the June SMMT figures are out: 1 in 6 of all new cars sold in June were pure EVs, and nearly a third of all new cars sold had some form of electric propulsion (pure EV, plug in hybrid or ’self charging’ hybrid).

 

[DC1989]

Can anyone who's driven an EV let me know how it is? Is it a nicer/easier experience? I haven't driven for about 10 years and had an 04 plate and I'm potentially looking for an electric car

 

[jon0844]

There isn't one single type of motor and a set performance for an EV.

 

[jmh59]

Can anyone who's driven an EV let me know how it is? Is it a nicer/easier experience? I haven't driven for about 10 years and had an 04 plate and I'm potentially looking for an electric car

Difficult to answer because our 21 plate EV has so many more toys than the previous diesel i30, which itself had so many more than the previous Scenic etc. Off the line acceleration is brisk, particularly good for overtaking, but that's no different from a larger engined beastie. Strip away all the toys and I guess the biggest single difference to me is the lack of a gearstick - just like any other automatic then! There is a calmness when waiting at lights or junctions though - no noise or vibration.

 

[reddragon]

Can anyone who's driven an EV let me know how it is? Is it a nicer/easier experience? I haven't driven for about 10 years and had an 04 plate and I'm potentially looking for an electric car

I've driven an EV for 6 years, on my 3rd now and have driven about a dozen different EVs over the years.

Driving -
You walk up, press the door/fob button or on posher ones the door opens for you as you approach. Get in, foot on brake & press start, put in drive and you are off that's it.
You will discover it's incredible performance at lower speeds, no gears, you just have a go & stop pedal basically.
Lots of settings to play with if you wish to set performance, one pedal driving, radio, phone, heating but once set that's it. Many things are automated.
Overall the experience is absolutely wonderful!

Charging

With a 7kWh home charger (type 2) or even a normal 2.3kwh socket, you just plug in & it charges
Out - many have silly apps, but increasingly they are just contactless now. Zap-map tells you where they are

Other

Ignore prices - look at what it costs you per month overall
Modern cars have thin tyres so are hard riding, don't be fooled by sales pitches for larger wheels
Dedicated EVs are best
Old EVs are reliable.

 

[ashkeba]

There’s a thread here now about walking on public highways and there’s also a thread here about cycling on public highways.

Lets keep this one to the discussion of electric vehicles from here please.

Thanks

Does this mean impractical heavy resource-hungry electric cars the only electric vehicles we are allowed to discuss on this thread, not electric bicycles?

If so, then the UK cannot switch to those electric vehicles in any realistic way very soon.

 

[Cowley]

Does this mean impractical heavy resource-hungry electric cars the only electric vehicles we are allowed to discuss on this thread, not electric bicycles?

If so, then the UK cannot switch to those electric vehicles in any realistic way very soon.

To be honest none of the staff on here have the time to read every single post in every single thread, but if you feel that it’s worth starting a new subject on this then please feel free to do that.

 

[Domh245]

Driving -
You walk up, press the door/fob button or on posher ones the door opens for you as you approach. Get in, foot on brake & press start, put in drive and you are off that's it.
You will discover it's incredible performance at lower speeds, no gears, you just have a go & stop pedal basically.
Lots of settings to play with if you wish to set performance, one pedal driving, radio, phone, heating but once set that's it. Many things are automated.
Overall the experience is absolutely wonderful!

Quite a lot of those aren't EV exclusive - only the one pedal aspect, low down torque, and the immediate ability to immediately go after pressing start (engine will take a couple seconds to come to life) are really EV exclusive, the rest are really just features you'd expect from almost any 'modern car' outside of bargain-basement models

I don't disagree that they are nice to drive though - I think the lack of engine noise & vibration (especially if you're not coming out of a modern highly sound deadened luxury thing) is the biggest noticeable aspect

 

[Bikeman78]

How often does it actual reason very hard for a prolonged period of time?

I walk to/from work nearly all the time, and or hardly impacts me. The worst time for it to train is the morning when I can't just wait five minutes for it to pass. However, even so, rarely is it an issue.

Rarely in my experience. I very rarely get wet cycling. I'm getting lazy in middle age and will drive if it's tipping down when I'm heading to work. Not bothered about the way home as I can change and dry out. Bus is a non starter. Apart from anything else, my local stops don't have shelters so what's the point in standing in the rain for five minutes?

 

[DelW]

Can anyone who's driven an EV let me know how it is? Is it a nicer/easier experience? I haven't driven for about 10 years and had an 04 plate and I'm potentially looking for an electric car

An admittedly minor point in addition to those already mentioned: if my car is plugged into the charger, I can input my intended departure time and it will run either the heater or a/c from the mains, in time that the cabin is already at my preset temperature when I get in. It also avoids having to scrape ice off on frosty mornings, though being retired helps with that too .

 

[reddragon]

An admittedly minor point in addition to those already mentioned: if my car is plugged into the charger, I can input my intended departure time and it will run either the heater or a/c from the mains, in time that the cabin is already at my preset temperature when I get in. It also avoids having to scrape ice off on frosty mornings, though being retired helps with that too .

I no longer have a scraper, so used to pre-conditioning on timer or off the app. My current model doesn't have that but it warms up so quickly I don't worry.

 

[bspahh]

I no longer have a scraper, so used to pre-conditioning on timer or off the app. My current model doesn't have that but it warms up so quickly I don't worry.

That is fine when you start a cold journey when the car is plugged into a charger. If you need to deice a car using the battery, you are going to lose quite a bit of range.

My cars for the last 20 years have had a heated windscreen, which is not a common feature on electric cars in the UK, for this reason.

 

[reddragon]

That is fine when you start a cold journey when the car is plugged into a charger. If you need to deice a car using the battery, you are going to lose quite a bit of range.

My cars for the last 20 years have had a heated windscreen, which is not a common feature on electric cars in the UK, for this reason.

I have never used the pre-con when plugged in as it's no longer cheap rate, 1-2% hardy stops me going anywhere!

Bigger issues is miles per kwh drops from 4.1 to 3.0 in the coldest part winter, so 25%c range loss

 

[Ediswan]

That is fine when you start a cold journey when the car is plugged into a charger. If you need to deice a car using the battery, you are going to lose quite a bit of range.

My cars for the last 20 years have had a heated windscreen, which is not a common feature on electric cars in the UK, for this reason.

I'm going to call that one out. Power consumption for a heated windscreen is not easy to come by, but I found some after-market screens which are 600W. Time to clear seems to be no more than 5 minutes. 3000 watt.minutes, 50 watt.hours, 0.05 kWh. Assuming 4-5 miles/kWh, that is about one quarter of a mile range lost. (If the EV is less efficient, the range loss is lower.)

 

[bspahh]

I'm going to call that one out. Power consumption for a heated windscreen is not easy to come by, but I found some after-market screens which are 600W. Time to clear seems to be no more than 5 minutes. 3000 watt.minutes, 50 watt.hours, 0.05 kWh. Assuming 4-5 miles/kWh, that is about one quarter of a mile range lost. (If the EV is less efficient, the range loss is lower.)

It looks like you are right.

With a Ford heated windscreen, it looks like there are is a 40A fuse for each of the 2 heater elements. If that means its a 60A load at 12V, its 720W. A Hyundai Kona has a 150kW motor, so it looks like it should be fine.

Heated windscreens are just great on the days when you need them. I was surprised how few electric cars had them the last time I was browsing.

 

[reddragon]

It looks like you are right.

With a Ford heated windscreen, it looks like there are is a 40A fuse for each of the 2 heater elements. If that means its a 60A load at 12V, its 720W. A Hyundai Kona has a 150kW motor, so it looks like it should be fine.

Heated windscreens are just great on the days when you need them. I was surprised how few electric cars had them the last time I was browsing.

It's because Ford owns the sole patent so only Fords & ex Ford owned manufacturers are 'allowed' to use them. Very sad such a safety feature is controlled by one manufacturer!

 

[cactustwirly]

It's because Ford owns the sole patent so only Fords & ex Ford owned manufacturers are 'allowed' to use them. Very sad such a safety feature is controlled by one manufacturer!

VW have their own system.
Wouldn't call it a safety feature, just convenience. Using an ice scraper isn't exactly hard