Travelcard prices - Chelmsford

[Acton1991]

Hi all - I have just purchased a Super Offpeak Travelcard at Chelmsford for today (Saturday) and I am shocked at the price - £26.80!

Does this seem high to you? No wonder the people of Essex will drive to their nearest tube station vs taking the train.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, and that is the intention.

The DfT and train companies know many people have no choice, so can set the fares quite high.

They know this will deter some passengers but they see that as a good thing as the cost of providing additional capacity is deemed too high.

Other countries take a very different approach but in the UK it's very much a case of charging as much as the market will bear in the full knowledge that many people will not put up with such high fares and be lost to other transport modes.

I can't see this approach ever changing to be honest.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A day single (Chelmsford-> London Liverpool Street) alone is £18.00.

Could modest savings be made by splitting at Brentwood? (£8.60 Super Off Peak Day Return from Chelmsford to Brentwood then a £15.30 Zones 1-9 Travelcard from there)?

 

[yorkie]

A day single (Chelmsford-> London Liverpool Street) alone is £18.00.

Could modest savings be made by splitting at Brentwood? (£8.60 Super Off Peak Day Return from Chelmsford to Brentwood then a £15.30 Zones 1-9 Travelcard from there)?

If you specify calling at Brentwood on a split ticket website (e.g. Trainsplit) you can find out.

If it is cheaper, such sites will often find such splits automatically without any calling at points being specified (you may need to press the value/cheaper button to see those)

 

[Paul Kelly]

I would recommend a Network Railcard. It saves 34% and would pay for itself on 4 of these journeys.

 

[Acton1991]

Thanks all - good suggestions, although I am trying to make the point that nearly £30 is an insane cost and that if the railway wants to encourage people back onto the trains, and change user behaviour, the fares system needs a total overhaul.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks all - good suggestions, although I am trying to make the point that nearly £30 is an insane cost and that if the railway wants to encourage people back onto the trains, and change user behaviour, the fares system needs a total overhaul.

It's not that the system needs an overhaul; it's that subsidy would need to increase.

If the system was overhauled but subsidy wasn't increased, then we wouldn't have any solutions to this fundamental problem of fares being too expensive.

There have been numerous threads on the topic.

 

[JBuchananGB]

I would have gone for a super off-peak day return to Stratford for £15.90, alight there and tap in with contactless or Oyster, and continue journey by most appropriate route, even if that meant boarding an Elizabeth line or another GA service to Liverpool Street, but for many destinations Central, Jubilee, DLR or Overground might be more sensible.

 

[Haywain]

Hi all - I have just purchased a Super Offpeak Travelcard at Chelmsford for today (Saturday) and I am shocked at the price - £26.80!

Does this seem high to you? No wonder the people of Essex will drive to their nearest tube station vs taking the train.

Broken down, that’s £14.40 for a day Travelcard, and £12.40 to get to and from the Travelcard area. I imagine lots of people are paying it quite happily.

 

[JonathanH]

Thanks all - good suggestions, although I am trying to make the point that nearly £30 is an insane cost and that if the railway wants to encourage people back onto the trains, and change user behaviour, the fares system needs a total overhaul.

I assume you are using 'total overhaul' as a euphemism for 'reduction in fares'. The 'total overhaul' for travelcards from Chelmsford could well be the extension of Contactless PAYG with zone-1 centric capping in 2024. That won't come with a reduction in fares (other than if you don't reach the cap).

Based on the figures given by 'Haywain', how are you branding the current fare insane? Trains from Chelmsford don't run empty into London.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Broken down, that’s £14.40 for a day Travelcard, and £12.40 to get to and from the Travelcard area. I imagine lots of people are paying it quite happily.

Or to look at it another way, it's £19.70 for the return to Liverpool Street, and £7.10 for the Travelcard element.

Alternatively, drive to Epping and pay £6.00 for parking and use Contactless/Oyster from there, capped at £14.10 for the day.

 

[Haywain]

to look at it another way, it's £19.70 for the return to Liverpool Street, and £7.10 for the Travelcard element.

£7.10 is not the cost of a paper Travelcard for zones 1-6.

 

[CyrusWuff]

£7.10 is not the cost of a paper Travelcard for zones 1-6.

Whilst that is undeniably the case, I would suggest it's what the proverbial "man on the Clapham omnibus" would consider when comparing the price of a Return to London and a Travelcard from the same station rather than getting into the nitty gritty of Boundary Zone 6 fares.

 

[cactustwirly]

Hi all - I have just purchased a Super Offpeak Travelcard at Chelmsford for today (Saturday) and I am shocked at the price - £26.80!

Does this seem high to you? No wonder the people of Essex will drive to their nearest tube station vs taking the train.

It's £28 from Reading...
Still not cheap, but it's a captive market as you can't exactly drive into Central London

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2022 ==

Or to look at it another way, it's £19.70 for the return to Liverpool Street, and £7.10 for the Travelcard element.

Alternatively, drive to Epping and pay £6.00 for parking and use Contactless/Oyster from there, capped at £14.10 for the day.

Most tube stations will be in the new ULEZ zone from August 2023, so add another £12.

I suspect a lot of people won't bother traveling to London at that point, particularly if the cost of living doesn't change

 

[JonathanH]

I suspect a lot of people won't bother traveling to London at that point, particularly if the cost of living doesn't change

London is a bit of a captive market in the South East - it would seem quite unlikely that people predisposed to travel there will not continue to do so - some people are more easily able to cope with those 'cost of living crisis' than others. Besides, the likely 10%+ hike in train fares isn't until next year.

 

[miklcct]

Or to look at it another way, it's £19.70 for the return to Liverpool Street, and £7.10 for the Travelcard element.

Alternatively, drive to Epping and pay £6.00 for parking and use Contactless/Oyster from there, capped at £14.10 for the day.

Or £15.90 return to Stratford and £10.90 for the Travelcard element.

Given how cheap the Overground fare is (as long as you don't touch Shoreditch High Street as the only sole zone 1 station on the orbit), it's very unlikely that a Travelcard can be the best value ticket here unless you actually need zone 1. Even if you do you'll hit the cap anyway cheaper than buying a Travelcard if you don't go further out than zone 3.


Edit to properly format UK monetary amounts.

 

[MikeWh]

Most tube stations will be in the new ULEZ zone from August 2023, so add another £12.

Quite, but Epping is certainly one that won't be on account of being in Essex and even the other side of the M25 to London.

 

[Watershed]

Most tube stations will be in the new ULEZ zone from August 2023, so add another £12.

How many people will the expanded ULEZ really affect?

 

[cactustwirly]

How many people will the expanded ULEZ really affect?

Everyone who parks at a tube station, and has a diesel made before 2016

 

[Watershed]

Everyone who parks at a tube station, and has a diesel made before 2016

And what percentage of people who regularly make such journeys does that represent?

 

[PeterC]

Set against the congestion charge and parking in Central London it doesn't look so bad.

Do you need a full travelcard? You may be better off with a return to Liverpool Street or Stratford the PAYG.

If you want the travelcard because your destination isn't in zone 1 then driving may be a better option

 

[Hadders]

Diesel likely to be around £10 to drive from Chelmsford to Epping and back.
Discount parking at Epping as the OP would likely need to pay to park at Chelmsford
Contactless from Epping to Zone 1 and back £3.50 each way off peak, capping at £14.10 depending on how much travelling is done during the day.

Significantly cheaper to drive but:

Chelmsford to Liverpool Street takes 32 minutes
Chelmsford to Epping is 18 miles taking about 35 minutes to drive
Epping to Liverpool Street on the Central Line takes 37 minutes

Arguably we should add in a provision for wear and tear on the car but others argue that many of these costs arfe fixed and paid anyway.

It is cheaper to travel by car and Underground via Epping (by how much depends on how much travelling you do once in London) but at a significant time penalty. Personally I'd but a Network Railcard and travel by train from Chelmsford which would cost £17.70 for the travelcard.

 

[cactustwirly]

And what percentage of people who regularly make such journeys does that represent?

Idk, I don't have figures right in front of me.
But due to tax incentives a large proportion of the cars built before 2015 would have been Diesel and not compliant.
The average age of a car is about 8 years so not a small number of people

 

[vinnym70]

Travelcards need particular attention.

As pointed out above, buying a ticket to Stratford or Liverpool Street and using PAYG/Oyster for London travel (assuming in central zones) will likely be cheaper.

The question you really need to answer is ... 'do I really need a travelcard?' because a travelcard from Chelmsford will include ALL zones which you likely won't use and is priced as such.

As Hadders pointed out, cost vs time is an issue here. Personally, I'd rather sit on a train that can get me to Stratford or Liverpool St and avoid the tube until I needed it. And, if I was a Chelmsford local, I could likely escape parking costs by getting a lift vs paying to park at Epping/elsewhere on the Central

 

[JonathanH]

Travelcards need particular attention.

Who from? Users? The expansion of PAYG could potentially be helpful in that regard but note that DfT have 'priced up' extension fares outside the zones so that there isn't a revenue loss.

There could admittedly be cases where a paper return to a zone 2 destination plus the PAYG cap is better but not every line has the equivalent of Stratford at which to make this transition (or conveniently located Oyster readers).

The question you really need to answer is ... 'do I really need a travelcard?' because a travelcard from Chelmsford will include ALL zones which you likely won't use and is priced as such.

The travelcard isn't specifically priced that way as the examples in this thread indicate. It is often broadly comparable to return to terminal plus 1-2 cap or return to boundary plus 1-6 cap.

 

[Hadders]

As pointed out above, buying a ticket to Stratford or Liverpool Street and using PAYG/Oyster for London travel (assuming in central zones) will likely be cheaper.

The question you really need to answer is ... 'do I really need a travelcard?' because a travelcard from Chelmsford will include ALL zones which you likely won't use and is priced as such.

Chelmsford to London Terminals Super Off Peak Day Return is £19.70
Chelmsford to London Zones 1-6 Travelcard is £26.80

So the Travelcard add on is effectively £7.10 but a single journey in Zone 1 with contactless is £2.50 single so more than two single journeys on the tune and you're better off with the travelcard.

 

[davews]

When you add in railcard discounts (currently unavailable on contactless) the difference becomes even less. From here, Martins Heron, it is £14.25 London Terminals, £18.30 Travelcard, difference £4.05. Same two z1 journeys for travelcard to be less.

 

[Watershed]

When you add in railcard discounts (currently unavailable on contactless) the difference becomes even less. From here, Martins Heron, it is £14.25 London Terminals, £18.30 Travelcard, difference £4.05. Same two z1 journeys for travelcard to be less.

It's possible to add most Railcards to an Oyster card. Admittedly with a Network or Two Together Railcard this wouldn't be of assistance,

 

[johncrossley]

Off-peak fares in the South East have to be artificially inflated to pay for the Network Railcard discount.

 

[JonathanH]

Off-peak fares in the South East have to be artificially inflated to pay for the Network Railcard discount.

Is that true? It certainly makes some of the cheaper fares cheaper but I wouldn't say that everything else is priced up to pay for the discount. I would imagine that if Network Railcard were withdrawn, the base fares wouldn't reduce.