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When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

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Typhoon

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Clark would be a good choice. He's not a 'warrior on wokeism', he will be a steady pair of hands, and he won't hog the headlines with some idiotic statements based on whatever rubbish the Americans have invented.
No uplifting speeches, no three word slogans, no stupid references to Peppa Pig and Kermit, no insults to minority groups for a laugh. And he has no realistic ambitions for the top job. He'll just get on with the job (unlike the last shower who kept saying that but did nothing - over-promising but under-delivering).

Interesting clip from the three quarters empty Commons - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-62079789. Contributions from Conservatives Aaron Bell (who I am warming to) - second - and Matthew Offord - fourth. These two at least want Johnson gone. I suggest they are not alone.

Liz Truss is cutting short her foreign trip (to Indonesia) and rushing back, no surprise there.
Why? Is the G20 not important? What is she going to do here? I'm just hoping that the aircraft has to make an emergency stop in Rangoon or somewhere similar with no prospect of an on-going flight for a week or so. Too many are playing at politics.

Edit:
With this continuing churning of ministers, it costing the country a fortune in redundancy payments for former ministers o_O:(
With the exception of Gove, they resigned so were not made redundant!
 
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WatcherZero

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Labour and Lib Dems both said they will introduce a motion of no-confidence if Boris doesnt go immediately.
 

Falcon1200

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And, of course, Labour was unelectable in 2019.

Let’s call that out for the drivel that it is.

Not drivel at all, I have voted Labour in the past but would not under any circumstances while Corbyn was leader. Note Sir Keir has today said that Boris was always unfit to be PM (with which I agree), however this comes from a man who happily served in a senior role in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet and campaigned for him to be PM ! Hypocrisy in action....
 

jfollows

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Boris gave his speech in Downing Street. He talked about himself, maybe fair enough, he blamed others for his downfall, but maybe most significantly he didn't give a date for his departure but left it in the hands of the 1922 Committee. Overall it was reasonably gracious. But no apology of any sort of course!
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Boris gave his speech in Downing Street. He talked about himself, maybe fair enough, he blamed others for his downfall, but maybe most significantly he didn't give a date for his departure but left it in the hands of the 1922 Committee. Overall it was reasonably gracious. But no apology of any sort of course!
It was totally narcissistic but hardly surprising and he said im carrying on until you lot find someone to replace me having appointed a new cabinet.
 

TheEdge

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As someone never likely to be a Conservative member, I'd be relatively happy to see Wallace as leader, except that he has high hopes of getting the top NATO job, which might not be a bad thing.

I'd be more than happy with Wallace as PM given his performance and handling of Ukraine. But I think he'd be far better use to the world as Secretary General of NATO than UK PM.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I'd be more than happy with Wallace as PM given his performance and handling of Ukraine. But I think he'd be far better use to the world as Secretary General of NATO than UK PM.
Absolutely and hopefully he's been given the nod by whoever sorts these things out in NATO
 

jfollows

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Boris referring to the "herd instinct" of the Conservative party won't have advanced his cause, I suspect. He's now dependent on their good graces to get what he wants, and pissing them off makes it less likely that they'll give him what he wants.
 

bspahh

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Howardh

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"Has Johnson been the worst prime minister in your life?"

"Not yet".

:frown:
 

Typhoon

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RichJF

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It was totally narcissistic but hardly surprising and he said im carrying on until you lot find someone to replace me having appointed a new cabinet.
He only cares about himself. He even throws his nearest & dearest under the bus if it advances himself, hence why he has multiple wives & divorces & unconfirmed number of kids.
 

jfollows

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Boris referring to the "herd instinct" of the Conservative party won't have advanced his cause, I suspect. He's now dependent on their good graces to get what he wants, and pissing them off makes it less likely that they'll give him what he wants.
6m ago13.13

Johnson accuses Tory MPs who forced him out of 'herd' mentality​

Boris Johnson’s resignation speech was short and relatively perfunctory - but revealing, although perhaps not in the way that he intended. Normally when prime ministers leave office, or start the process of leaving office, they focus on their legacy. Johnson mentioned Brexit, the UK’s response to Covid and his support for Ukraine, but it felt as if he was rattling through his standard talking point, rather than reflecting deeply on what he did and why.

Instead, the speech came alive when Johnson started considering the circumstances of his departure. In a rare moment of humility, he accepted “no one is remotely indispensable”. But he also delivered a barely-concealed whinge against the Tory MPs who forced him out, effectively accusing them of groupthink and ignoring the polls.

And he said nothing about the multiple flaws and failings that led to his party losing confidence in him. Not a word, or even the most tangential reference. It seemed like confirmation that he still thinks he has done nothing wrong.

Here are the key points.

  • Johnson accused the Tory MPs who forced him out of adopting a “herd” mentality and ignoring his electoral mandate and and the relatively small size of Labour’s lead in the polls. He said:
In the last few days, I tried to persuade my colleagues that it would be eccentric to change governments when we’re delivering so much and when we have such a vast mandate and when we’re actually only a handful of points behind in the polls, even in midterm after quite a few months of pretty relentless sledging and when the economic scene is so difficult domestically and internationally.
I regret not to have been successful in those arguments and of course it’s painful not to be able to see through so many ideas and projects myself.
But as we’ve seen, at Westminster the herd instinct is powerful, when the herd moves, it moves.
Although it is true that Labour’s overall polling lead is relatively small compared with the leads some opposition parties have had over the government mid-term, Johnson’s personal polling is dire. And last month the Tories lost a byelection in a defeat that was, on one measure (size of the majority overturned), the worst ever recorded.

  • Johnson said no one is indispensable in politics. He said:
And my friends in politics, no one is remotely indispensable and our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader, equally committed to taking this country forward through tough times.
  • He said he resisted resigning because he still wanted to deliver on his election mandate. He said:
I want to say to the millions of people who voted for us in 2019, many of them voting Conservative for the first time, thank you for that incredible mandate, the biggest Conservative majority since 1987, the biggest share of the vote since 1979.
And the reason I have fought so hard in the last few days to continue to deliver that mandate in person was not just because I wanted to do so, but because I felt it was my job, my duty, my obligation to you to continue to do what we promised in 2019.
  • He said he would serve as PM until a new leader is in place. He said:
It is clearly now the will of the parliamentary Conservative party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new prime minister. And I’ve agreed with Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of our backbench MPs, that the process of choosing that new leader should begin now and the timetable will be announced next week. And I’ve today appointed a cabinet to serve, as I will, until a new leader is in place.
Johnson did not repeat the line briefed by No 10 this morning about how he might be able to stay as PM until the autumn. But he did not indicate any desire for the leadership contest to be over quickly either. How long he intends, or will be allowed, to remain in office as PM remains unresolved.

  • He promised to support the new party leader. He said:
To that new leader, I say, whoever he or she may be, I say: ‘I will give you as much support as I can’.
Given Johnson’s record on loyalty, this might not be much a consolation to the next leader.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...gnations-today-conservatives-uk-politics-live
 

Lost property

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He only cares about himself. He even throws his nearest & dearest under the bus if it advances himself, hence why he has multiple wives & divorces & unconfirmed number of kids.
Tsk, that's a bit churlish really....he did, after all, allow Carrie and baby to be next to him when he duly praised himself and tried to blame everybody but himself....as always.
 

Annetts key

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With this continuing churning of ministers, it costing the country a fortune in redundancy payments for former ministers o_O:(
With the exception of Gove, they resigned so were not made redundant!
BBC said:
Michelle Donelan says she'll donate severance pay to charity

Iain Watson
Political correspondent
Ministers who resign are entitled to severance pay and get 25% of their full ministerial salary. It's emerged that with so many quitting their posts this week, it's been calculated that the total set to be paid out could be as high as £420,000.

In the Commons, minister Michael Ellis suggested the government can't do much about this, because the rules are laid down in legislation.

Michelle Donelan, who resigned earlier having been appointed Education Secretary less than 48 hours ago, says she will donate her £16,876.25 severance pay to "a local charity".
 

Kite159

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Best thing to happen will be for Johnson to go now, a caretaker PM (maybe May) to cover until September/October until a new leader gets elected.

Preferably someone who has had little to do with the Johnson administration, and someone who won't impose another lockdown if cases of the C word increase this coming winter.

Better than Johnson hanging around like a bad smell like Corbyn did when he quit after losing in 2019.

I would imagine even if Sir Beer does a vote of no confidence it will fail, the Tory MPs will vote against it as they know if it is successful and there is another election they could be out of a job.
 
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jfollows

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More feedback is along the lines of
"blaming the herd instinct"
"no self reflection"
"hopes that he'll be the leader again after the next one loses the next election"
"defiant, bombastic"
"no humility or apology"
"tone of statement won't have helped him"
"hasn't taken his defenestration well"
"shows he's still in denial"
"boasting, blathering and blaming everyone but himself"
"terrible final speech by a man who turned out to be a truly terrible Prime Minister"
"not a single admission of having done anything wrong, or of having any regrets"
"incredibly graceless statement"
"snide, lacking in grace & self awareness"
"what's for lunch?"
all from Twitter feeds reported in The Guardian (so, yes, it's selective - live with it!)
 
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Shrop

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Clark would be a good choice. He's not a 'warrior on wokeism', he will be a steady pair of hands, and he won't hog the headlines with some idiotic statements based on whatever rubbish the Americans have invented.
"Warrior on Wokeism"? Please could you explain what this is? Wokeism is about society having an awareness and acceptance of so called "minority issues", and most of society certainly now has this. It's related to LGBTQ and Racism, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), and most of society fully accepts these things, to the extent that those who don't are often shamed, lose jobs etc etc. If your concern is about the minority of extremists who don't accept Wokeism then say that, but the vast majority do accept these groups, sufficiently that we don't even think about it, we just get along with them and accept them. The belief that there is some sinister movement against these groups is outdated and paranoid. What people want is balance, not the sight of Woke banners saying "Silence is violence", thus putting down anyone who doesn't take action to support them. I have family members who have had cancer, but I wouldn't dream of saying "Silence is violence" to anyone who doesn't go out and actively raise money for cancer research. It's about proportion. Yes, there will always be those who don't accept people of colour and various sexual preferences, but it might also be that some of those you brand with being a "warrior on wokeism" just want things to be in proportion.
 
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Typhoon

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Minister Michael Ellis suggested the government can't do much about this, because the rules are laid down in legislation.
Yes they can, 'encourage' those that resigned to turn it down!
I can remember there were politicians (can't remember which party) who went on about pensioners who didn't need the Winter Fuel Payment returning it.

Someone needs to ask Johnson what he plans to do with his cut - and check up on him, we know how accurate the words coming out of his mouth tend to be.
 

TheEdge

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Best thing to happen will be for Johnson to go now, a caretaker PM (maybe May) to cover until September/October until a new leader gets elected.

I doubt she's in any state to do anything at the moment. I imagine she's the drunkest she has ever been.
 

najaB

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Note Sir Keir has today said that Boris was always unfit to be PM (with which I agree), however this comes from a man who happily served in a senior role in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet and campaigned for him to be PM ! Hypocrisy in action....
The difference there is that Corbyn wasn't a suitable candidate for PM but he wasn't unfit for the job. He would have been a terrible PM but I doubt he would have lied misspoken nearly as often as Boris has.
 

Gloster

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I think we should now start looking at who the contenders to be the next PM are and who might win. What worries me is that the current Conservative party is far to the right of what it traditionally was. Candidates will try to get through to the last two (presuming the system for the election is broadly as expected) by proposing anti-European, xenophobic, authoritarian and socially divisive policies in order to get themselves in the all members final vote. They will then carry out these policies, which may be damaging to this country in many ways, in order to appear strong and responsive to their voters, i.e. Conservative party members.
 
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yorksrob

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On the other hand, a change in leadership could be seen as an opportunity to attempt a less antagonistic relationship with Europe.
 

Typhoon

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I think we should now start looking at who the contenders to be the next PM are and who might win. What worries me is that the current Conservative party is far to the right of what it traditionally was. Candidates will try to get through to the last two (presuming the system for the election is broadly as expected) by proposing anti-European, xenophobic, authoritarian and socially divisive policies in order to get themselves in the all members final vote. They will then carry out these policies, which may be damaging to this country in many ways, in order to appear strong and responsive to their voters, i.e. Conservative party members.

Perhaps this should be a new thread.
Before that happens, part of the reason the Conservative Party is further to the right than is normally the case is that Johnson drove or threw many of the moderates out because he wouldn't accept any disagreement over Europe. It is certainly a less broad church than under Cameron.
 

Lost property

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It was revealing to read Ms Truss, ostensibly the Foreign Sec and therefore representing the UK in global matters, duly put herself first by coming home early from such trivial events to ensure she can commence her own hopes to cross the portals of No10 as PM....nice to learn of her priorities really.
 
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