"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

[bramling]

I remember the publicity about Captain Tom but now there is a scandal? Quick look the charity in trouble and the Gin being pulled? Aah but question once more did we see the BBC/Sky jump on this or did they sweep this under? (by means not on their sites I mean on TV/radio?, I’ll go with the possibility of not). On the other the media sure knows how to pick them!

It seems there are concerns of a conflict of interest between the charitable trust in Moore's name, and some other family business interests - in other words making money off the back of the whole thing. Which is rather interesting, as I seem to remember it was on this very forum at the time that someone made the observation at the time that his family, the daughter in particular, seemed to be pushing the whole thing into the limelight. Obviously we will wait to see what comes from all of this, but it certainly has a rather unpleasant smell about it.

 

[johnnychips]

Here is a link, though I do realise we are going off-topic, and perhaps a new thread needs to be opened somewhere, if this interests anyone:

Probe into Captain Tom's charity with daughter 'lined up for £100k-a-year role'

The Captain Tom Foundation was set up by his daughter Hannah Ingram- Moore and her husband Colin. The Charity Commission, which had begun a compliance case, has opened a statutory inquiry

www.mirror.co.uk

(The link is to an article whose headline is

‘Probe into Captain Tom's charity with daughter 'lined up for £100k-a-year CEO role’)

 

[Bantamzen]

I noted that the BBC had a scare story today, which has now dropped out of their ‘most read’. However, I was astounded that Covid still has its own subsection along with politics, business etc. It really is time to stop this nonsense.View attachment 117064

BBC News & especially BBC Breakfast has long had a history of being super neurotic. I stopped watching Breakfast years ago after becoming fed up with an almost daily health scare story. If it wasn't some exotic disease on some remote atoll in the South Pacific threatening humanity with extinction, it was some story that if you drank more than 3 glasses on wine in a decade you were doomed to an early death. As far back as the middle of the last decade I had become convinced that the BBC News editorial team were professional hypochondriacs, determined to make the entire nation into a bunch of terrified neurotics. Covid must have been a godsend for them, I could almost hear their squeals of delight when it all began. After all its kept them busy these last two and a half years...

 

[kristiang85]

Here is a link, though I do realise we are going off-topic, and perhaps a new thread needs to be opened somewhere, if this interests anyone:

Probe into Captain Tom's charity with daughter 'lined up for £100k-a-year role'

The Captain Tom Foundation was set up by his daughter Hannah Ingram- Moore and her husband Colin. The Charity Commission, which had begun a compliance case, has opened a statutory inquiry

www.mirror.co.uk

(The link is to an article whose headline is

‘Probe into Captain Tom's charity with daughter 'lined up for £100k-a-year CEO role’)

I didn't give a penny to that, as I knew donating to "NHS charities" would just mean much of the money going to bloated administration and wastage, however they claim to justify it, let alone whatever his family were up to.

 

[scarby]

I noted that the BBC had a scare story today, which has now dropped out of their ‘most read’. However, I was astounded that Covid still has its own subsection along with politics, business etc. It really is time to stop this nonsense.View attachment 117064

It is barely mentioned anymore in the media here in Sweden, and when it is it is a tiny story buried away in "other news".

 

[kez19]

BBC News & especially BBC Breakfast has long had a history of being super neurotic. I stopped watching Breakfast years ago after becoming fed up with an almost daily health scare story. If it wasn't some exotic disease on some remote atoll in the South Pacific threatening humanity with extinction, it was some story that if you drank more than 3 glasses on wine in a decade you were doomed to an early death. As far back as the middle of the last decade I had become convinced that the BBC News editorial team were professional hypochondriacs, determined to make the entire nation into a bunch of terrified neurotics. Covid must have been a godsend for them, I could almost hear their squeals of delight when it all began. After all its kept them busy these last two and a half years...

The thing is too it’s not just the BBC it’s the whole lot of them, remember they were debating vaccinations and trying to implement them being mandatory, as I say and I still question how many of those in the media circus been vaccinated or not? Whilst I personally couldn’t care if people are or not it’s personal choice but the media treat/treated it as a witch hunt that’s been my bug bear out of this charade it feels more as media dictating policies than the politicians themselves!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2022 ==

I noted that the BBC had a scare story today, which has now dropped out of their ‘most read’. However, I was astounded that Covid still has its own subsection along with politics, business etc. It really is time to stop this nonsense.View attachment 117064

Twitter has its own subsection on covid too but it’s optional not to look at it but I see on the odd occasion they’ll pop COVID up but I guess no other health matters strangely enough!

 

[GC class B1]

Dr Jenny Harris was on BBC this morning. A load of fear mongering but I had a laugh when asked if she wore a mask she replied that she didn’t generally wear one but always had one in her handbag and it if in a crowded place and people felt uneasy she would wear it. I think the Queen has the right idea keeping marmalade sandwiches in hers - they would be more useful.

 

[kez19]

Dr Jenny Harris was on BBC this morning. A load of fear mongering but I had a laugh when asked if she wore a mask she replied that she didn’t generally wear one but always had one in her handbag and it if in a crowded place and people felt uneasy she would wear it. I think the Queen has the right idea keeping marmalade sandwiches in hers - they would be more useful.

Aah the usual, I’ll say what I want but I’m a hypocrite myself (Dr Harris I mean), I do wonder how she coped pre-COVID? Again I’ll be cynical but I bet life was normal for her and for her to say that does make you wonder if it really is said for fear/cameras.

 

[GC class B1]

Aah the usual, I’ll say what I want but I’m a hypocrite myself (Dr Harris I mean), I do wonder how she coped pre-COVID? Again I’ll be cynical but I bet life was normal for her and for her to say that does make you wonder if it really is said for fear/cameras.

The interesting point is that she didn’t say masks should be worn so at least she wasn’t dishonest enough to recommend them to reduce transmission.

 

[kez19]

The interesting point is that she didn’t say masks should be worn so at least she wasn’t dishonest enough to recommend them to reduce transmission.

It’s good for her then to say this but I just think somehow be the BBC or who else will find something in that interview and twist it to suit their own agenda

 

[Mikw]

There is no “threat of a lockdown”. Even if healthcare would be overloaded, there is the more important factor of the benefit of lockdowns needing to exceed the harm they cause. This was barely met in a pre-vaccination world and it certainly won’t be going forward.

I don't think you quite get what i am saying.
NHS capacity is the single biggest reason why we had lockdowns in the first place.

Now, thanks to vaccines mainly this has threat has ebbed away, but you can't discount it ever happening again.

ITU beds have been cut in recent years and many hospital wards have been mothballed in order to downsize hospitals and sell off land.

Then along comes a transmissable virus that requires distancing in ITU so that means even less beds.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2022 ==

Same goes for the petrol panic last year. The media caused the problem. I believe a few filling stations ran dry but the media managed to cause panic across the whole country which made the problem far worse.

One of the bosses of an oil company (can't remember which) caused it by saying they were planning on rationing fuel because of issues with supply. Radio 4 put it in one of their news stories then the newspaper websites published it and it soon became the most popular issue.

Due to the way these things work stories get "bigger" the more people read them, rightly or wrongly. So clearly ordinary people were concerned enough to put those stories at the top of the agenda.

 

[yorkie]

...threat has ebbed away, but you can't discount it ever happening again....

But it should be. I am ruling myself out of being locked down again; I won't comply and I am sure many others will do so too.

 

[43066]

I don't think you quite get what i am saying.
NHS capacity is the single biggest reason why we had lockdowns in the first place.

Well that’s what we were told (alongside “three weeks to flatten the curve”, and “save lives”). Then again the same people who told us that also told us that Omicron would “overwhelm the NHS” last autumn and that proved to be nonsense. That rather suggests they were talking nonsense the first time around, also.

This was part of the problem with the response, and why the whole circus has been dragged out for so long. The lockdowns, along with most of the other measures, were open ended with no clearly defined objective against which their success, or otherwise, could be measured.

 

[jumble]

Dr Jenny Harris was on BBC this morning. A load of fear mongering but I had a laugh when asked if she wore a mask she replied that she didn’t generally wear one but always had one in her handbag and it if in a crowded place and people felt uneasy she would wear it. I think the Queen has the right idea keeping marmalade sandwiches in hers - they would be more useful.

I was interested in her comments about the resistance of BA5 to vaccines
Something like " There is possibly evidence emerging that BA5 might be more resistant to the vaccine"
This does not stop the likes of Mumsnet idiots interpreting this to be a fact and so making a fuss about masks

 

[J-2739]

But it should be. I am ruling myself out of being locked down again; I won't comply and I am sure many others will do so too.

The sad problem is, there is only so far one can go with not complying; when all the shops and clubs close down and transport links are halted, you have already lost.

 

[Eyersey468]

The sad problem is, there is only so far one can go with not complying; when all the shops and clubs close down and transport links are halted, you have already lost.

This is the problem

 

[MikeWM]

I was interested in her comments about the resistance of BA5 to vaccines
Something like " There is possibly evidence emerging that BA5 might be more resistant to the vaccine"

Entirely predictable that vaccinating everything that moves, with a non-sterilising over-specific vaccine, in the middle of the pandemic of a quickly mutating virus, would lead to the emergence of variants that are less affected by the vaccine. People who know what they are talking about were warning about exactly this 18 months ago. Whether we see that with BA5, or some other variant that arrives later, isn't especially clear yet, but it seems likely it will happen at some point. Vaccinating those people at serious risk, and only those, would have significantly reduced the probability of this happening.

So far, as Omicron in all its variants is very mild anyway, this fortunately hasn't caused us too many difficulties. Hopefully that will remain the case.

This does not stop the likes of Mumsnet idiots interpreting this to be a fact and so making a fuss about masks

People feel the need to try to control the uncontrollable. That's been a massive part of the problem all along, and the encouragement to keep that illusion going by the government, the media and most of the medical profession, hasn't helped us one bit.

 

[bramling]

But it should be. I am ruling myself out of being locked down again; I won't comply and I am sure many others will do so too.

The problem with that, as was the case last year, is businesses being forced to close, or implement restrictive measures. Not much choice but to acquiesce if, for example, one wants to stay in a hotel which has been closed. To be honest I can’t really see that arising again, as many more people are now aware of the consequences attached to prolonged forced business closures, but then again lots of people enjoyed the freeby leisure time they were gifted.

Johnson will ultimately flap with the wind if someone blows at him hard enough.

We’re also well within our rights to ask where’s the extra ICU capacity to deal with all this.

 

[MikeWM]

We’re also well within our rights to ask where’s the extra ICU capacity to deal with all this.

We are indeed. It is one thing to not have sufficient ICU capacity to cope with an 'unprecedented' pandemic, if we're feeling somewhat generous and want to say this was unprecedented (though it wasn't really). It is an entirely different thing to not have dealt with the issue, or seemingly have any plans to do so, in apparently any way whatever, 119 weeks later.

 

[kez19]

I was interested in her comments about the resistance of BA5 to vaccines
Something like " There is possibly evidence emerging that BA5 might be more resistant to the vaccine"
This does not stop the likes of Mumsnet idiots interpreting this to be a fact and so making a fuss about masks

Yet on the other how accurate does she know that the BA5 is resistant to vaccines? On the flipside it looks like more doom than when the first vaccines came about either these people want vaccines or not? Can’t keep having it as a two way street!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2022 ==

The problem with that, as was the case last year, is businesses being forced to close, or implement restrictive measures. Not much choice but to acquiesce if, for example, one wants to stay in a hotel which has been closed. To be honest I can’t really see that arising again, as many more people are now aware of the consequences attached to prolonged forced business closures, but then again lots of people enjoyed the freeby leisure time they were gifted.

Johnson will ultimately flap with the wind if someone blows at him hard enough.

We’re also well within our rights to ask where’s the extra ICU capacity to deal with all this.

I thought initially that the Nightingale (Louisa Jordan in Scotland) hospitals were built for exactly that but it seemed to be it was your normal run of the mill hospital dealing with it! So what was the real purpose of those hospitals? Was it just built for the cameras and tv crews to then be forgotten about?

 

[david1212]

.....

We’re also well within our rights to ask where’s the extra ICU capacity to deal with all this.

We are indeed. It is one thing to not have sufficient ICU capacity to cope with an 'unprecedented' pandemic, if we're feeling somewhat generous and want to say this was unprecedented (though it wasn't really). It is an entirely different thing to not have dealt with the issue, or seemingly have any plans to do so, in apparently any way whatever, 119 weeks later.

If the area covered by the hospital already has a 1000+ new houses over the last few years and 1000+ more either under construction now or planned the ICU capacity and capacity in general effectively significantly reduced !!

 

[MikeWM]

If the area covered by the hospital already has a 1000+ new houses over the last few years and 1000+ more either under construction now or planned the ICU capacity and capacity in general effectively significantly reduced !!

Well, yes indeed. It seems remarkably difficult to find statistics on number of ICU beds, but general hospital beds in the NHS in England have reduced from around 140,000 in 1997 to 100,000 now, while the population has grown 15-20% in that time. Obviously some advances in medicine have meant that people may not need a bed for as long after surgery, for example, and/or that more can be done as day cases, but nevertheless these figures don't look great.

 

[Eyersey468]

The problem with that, as was the case last year, is businesses being forced to close, or implement restrictive measures. Not much choice but to acquiesce if, for example, one wants to stay in a hotel which has been closed. To be honest I can’t really see that arising again, as many more people are now aware of the consequences attached to prolonged forced business closures, but then again lots of people enjoyed the freeby leisure time they were gifted.

Johnson will ultimately flap with the wind if someone blows at him hard enough.

We’re also well within our rights to ask where’s the extra ICU capacity to deal with all this.

And those of us that tried to warn about the problems it would cause got vilified for it.

 

[nw1]

If the area covered by the hospital already has a 1000+ new houses over the last few years and 1000+ more either under construction now or planned the ICU capacity and capacity in general effectively significantly reduced !!

Except no-one has previously made the argument that we must not build houses because the hospitals cannot cope with it. There are other arguments against excessive house-building, some sensible (mostly those focused on preserving green space), but not heard this one before.

 

[MikeWM]

And those of us that tried to warn about the problems it would cause got vilified for it.

Of course, and now it seemed no-one can admit they were wrong. Just look at the people - including a lot of people who should know better - begging for mask mandates again despite all the evidence they achieve nothing and yet cause all manner of harms.

Quite frankly I'd have been very happy if I'd been totally wrong about most of the things I've been saying over the last 27 months. But then I've just been moaning on an internet forum, not actively involved in destroying lives and livelihoods and our way of life, so I suppose the stakes were lower.

 

[bramling]

If the area covered by the hospital already has a 1000+ new houses over the last few years and 1000+ more either under construction now or planned the ICU capacity and capacity in general effectively significantly reduced !!

Sssssh. Elephant in room!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2022 ==

Except no-one has previously made the argument that we must not build houses because the hospitals cannot cope with it. There are other arguments against excessive house-building, some sensible (mostly those focused on preserving green space), but not heard this one before.

There’s certainly arguments been made about infrastructure, with hospitals being one part of that.

 

[gabrielhj07]

But it should be. I am ruling myself out of being locked down again; I won't comply and I am sure many others will do so too.

As a matter of interest, after which of the (3 I think it was?) lockdowns did you decide this? Personally it was around May 2020.

 

[Class 33]

I've seen a number of online news articles today saying basically

"Brits urged to wear face masks as Covid-19 hospital admissions expected to rise"​

Here is one example article from Covid restrictions and lockdowns loving The Mirror....

Brits urged to wear masks as Covid hospital cases 'likely' to hit 18-month high

Dame Dr Jenny Harries warned the number of people in hospital is 'quite likely' to outstrip the 20,000 recorded in Spring as the Omicron BA.5 variant drives a new wave

www.mirror.co.uk

Brits urged to wear masks as Covid hospital cases 'likely' to hit 18-month high​

Dame Dr Jenny Harries warned the number of people in hospital is 'quite likely' to outstrip the 20,000 recorded in Spring as the Omicron BA.5 variant drives a new wave



Brits were today urged to wear masks in crowded, enclosed places amid fears Covid hospital cases will hit an 18-month high.
Dame Dr Jenny Harries, one of the UK’s most senior health officials, warned a current wave of the virus has not yet peaked.

And she said it is “quite likely” hospitalisations will rise higher than the last wave this Spring.

In that wave of the Omicron BA.2 variant, the number of Covid patients in UK hospitals peaked at just over 20,000 at the start of April.

At the time, that was the highest number of Covid patients in UK hospitals since February 2021 - with admissions peaking at over 2,500 a day.

Hospital numbers fell between April and June but are now creeping up again, as Dame Jenny warned the BA.4 and BA.5 Omicron variants are “pushing and driving” a new wave.

The UK Health Security Agency chief executive told the BBC ’s Sunday Morning show: “It doesn't look as though that wave has finished yet.


“So we would anticipate that hospital cases will rise and it's possible, quite likely that they will actually peak over the previous BA.2 wave [in March 2022].


“But I think the overall impact we won't know. It's easy to say in retrospect - it's not so easy to model forward.”

Some 2.3 million people in private households are estimated to have had the virus last week, up 32% from a week earlier, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

So far, this is well below the record 4.9million people who had Covid in one week during the Omicron BA.2 wave at the end of March.

But the number of people in UK hospitals with Covid has already risen from around 5,000 to more than 10,000 by June 27.

Dame Jenny told the BBC: “I think the the advice is still the same. We want people to take sensible precautionary advice.

Dame Dr Jenny Harries, one of the UK’s most senior health officials, warned a current wave of the virus has not yet peaked (
Image:
Press Association Images)
“So routine things like washing your hands, keeping your distance, wearing a face covering if you're going into enclosed, poorly ventilated spaces.

“But we're still encouraging people to go about their normal lives but in that precautionary way.”

Despite not changing the advice - which says face masks are voluntary but "can help reduce the chance of you spreading infection to others, especially in crowded and enclosed spaces" - Dame Jenny suggested she has been wearing a mask more often due to the raised risk.

“If I was symptomatic and had to go out, I would definitely wear one - clearly I would avoid doing that at all cost. In fact, if I got any respiratory infection it’s a good thing to do and I think it’s a new lesson for the country.”

Asked if it matters that a lot of people are getting infected with Covid, she said that aside from the effect on individuals, it also "matters on a national basis".

NO NO NO NO!!!!! We will not wear those pathetic pointless face masks again!!! We put up with that absolute nonsense for long enough as it was(June 2020-July 2021, and then late November 2021-late January 2022)!!!! The mandatory wearing of face masks/coverings should NEVER even have been brought in in the first place!!!! We really don't need that horrible dystopian nonsense coming back again along with all those stupid notices/posters and PA announcements saying we "MUST wear a face mask/covering". As it is not currently mandatory to wear the dam things, hopefully I think very very few people will adhere to these pathetic unwarranted requests urging us to wear the dam things! The wearing of these things needs to be a thing of the past and consigned to the history books for good!!!!

Using the reason that Covid-19 hospital admissions expected to rise, is absolutely PATHETIC. We don't need to be hearing and seeing the words "Pressure on the NHS" and "Protect the NHS" ever again. Since the start of the pandemic 28 months ago, hospitals have had plenty of time to provide extra capacity(what happened to all those Nightingale hospitals? They demolished them all or used them for something else!!) So if the NHS is still moaning about not enough capacity or whatever, then quite frankly they're not fit for purpose!!!

 

[Ascotroyal]

I've seen a number of online news articles today saying basically

"Brits urged to wear face masks as Covid-19 hospital admissions expected to rise"​

NO NO NO NO!!!!! We will not wear those pathetic pointless face masks again!!! We put up with that absolute nonsense for long enough as it was(June 2020-July 2021, and then late November 2021-late January 2022)!!!! The mandatory wearing of face masks/coverings should NEVER even have been brought in in the first place!!!! We really don't need that horrible dystopian nonsense coming back again along with all those stupid notices/posters and PA announcements saying we "MUST wear a face mask/covering". As it is not currently mandatory to wear the dam things, hopefully I think very very few people will adhere to these pathetic unwarranted requests urging us to wear the dam things! The wearing of these things needs to be a thing of the past and consigned to the history books for good!!!!

Using the reason that Covid-19 hospital admissions expected to rise, is absolutely PATHETIC. We don't need to be hearing and seeing the words "Pressure on the NHS" and "Protect the NHS" ever again. Since the start of the pandemic 28 months ago, hospitals have had plenty of time to provide extra capacity(what happened to all those Nightingale hospitals? They demolished them all or used them for something else!!) So if the NHS is still moaning about not enough capacity or whatever, then quite frankly they're not fit for purpose!!!

On my train journey to/from work there seems to be a lot more people wearing masks than this time last week. Though this is only a short journey from Ascot to/from Reading.

 

[yorkie]

I've seen a number of online news articles today saying basically

"Brits urged to wear face masks as Covid-19 hospital admissions expected to rise"​

The people urging this don't have the intelligence to understand that:

• the virus will continue to evolve and adapt for humans; it is becoming less pathogenic and it is increasing its fitness (i.e. "increased transmissibility")
• our immunity to the virus is increasing all the time
• vaccines are highly effective against severe disease and in relative terms only a very small proportion of infections result in serious illness
• we are going to reach endemic equilibrium
• flimsy loose fitting masks do not prevent infections and even if they did, it would only delay the onset of endemic equilibrium

Unfortunately there is just no way these people will be educated because they are driven by a hard-left political ideology.

They should be ignored; 95% of the population are ignoring them and eventually they will give up.