Already done to the TPE 802s. Not sure about LNER's 80xs, Hull Trains's 802s or Lumo's 803s.As of next week all GWR IETs will have the speed limited set automatically to 125mph (in practice this keeps the train at 124mph due to the difference between mph and kph).
So no more 125mph on the Western
Yes
And it's probably TPEs fault that this is being done in the first place after one of their drivers had a little oopsie on the race track between York and Northallerton...
Technically they can, but in practice no as they are routed onto the relief lines. Except for a handful of services
What speed do Voyagers go on the GWML? When I went on one recently it was noticeably faster past Didcot than it had been since I got on at Wolverhampton.
No of course not but its hardly a ringing endorsement of the current railway when we can no longer achieve the speeds attained in the 1970s.
From a marketing standpoint, especially falling a fall in railway usage following the pandemic and in the midst of a climate crisis where we want more people off the roads on the rails, it might do the railways some good to have prestige and excitement. That said I don't think the general public will notice much of a difference to be honest. I can't imagine anyone outside the forums knowing such information anyway.
How many drivers actually use speed sets? I do wonder this because if I were at the controls myself I'd trust my own judgement after years of training over a speed set even if I might not have much of a reason not to trust it. I think in a safety critical position it might just be a matter of having a peace of mind to me feeling ever more slightly in control.
The same could be said for all of the rules in the rulebook. They all exist because someone messed up in the past.
If I recall correctly the use of speed set is mandatory on LNER’s 80xs.
Out of interest is that an operator mandate or a rolling stock mandate? I presume it's the former.
Fair point, it was really just a question of interest. But from an outside perspective I personally think that I might feel in more control if I'm controlling the train speed manually. That said I might also act differently in the real situation since I've never driven a train before (maybe for the better as well). At the very least a limiter is a good thing to have in any given situation whether as a primary or secondary means of train control.
I understood the 80x speedset working in km/h was nonsense, certainly when I mentioned such in a previous thread we had a driver of the trains quite firmly say such that that notion was rubbish and they will not only touch 125 with the speedset on but that the speedset doesn't treat 125mph as 200km/h and thus round down.As of next week all GWR IETs will have the speed limited set automatically to 125mph (in practice this keeps the train at 124mph due to the difference between mph and kph).
So no more 125mph on the Western
Where does 124.89 come from? It's 124.27mph if we are doing it to two decimal places...
When the Avanti Euston-Glasgow record run was undertaken, the driver ran on speedset throughout. John Heaton (official timekeeper) noted in the Practice and Performance column of The Railway Magazine that use of speedset cost several seconds in many places as it won't hold at 125mph consistently (particularly uphill it tends to hold at about 123.5mph on Pendolinos).
Does the manual speed set also hold on downhill stretches? I once read a rail magazine where a Pendolino driver spoke about coasting the last 20 or so miles of the journey to Glasgow. In fact given it's largely a downhill journey from Tring to London Euston at 31 miles (50 kilometres) I wouldn't be surprised if no power was applied if running under all green signals.
Even if 125mph is pushing it for a service to be labelled High Speed these days being lower by .11mph isn't going to impact passenger numbers either way unless not being 125mph on the dot means it can no longer be classed as high speed anymore.
On 390s speedset will hold speed downhill yes.
On 80x, only if the dynamic brake is active. Which on GWR's fleet is in both electric and diesel modes on 802, but only electric mode on 800.
Interesting. Thanks for the info!
Well that's interesting. I would've thought that with both being bi-mode units they would have similar capabilities.
By that argument, you could say that TPWS is a knee-jerk reaction to a few drivers approaching red signals too fast. Or correct side door enable systems are a knee-jerk reaction to a few drivers releasing the doors on the wrong side. If there is a risk that can be mitigated with an engineering control that eliminates the risk of human error, why not use it? Especially when the only cost to the benefit is less than 1mph difference in top speed.
As 802s were procured for running to Penzance, the design is based on them doing more running on unelectrified tracks than the 800 fleet. So they have larger brake resistors to permit the use of rheostatic braking when in diesel mode. On 800s, the brake resistors are much smaller, and are really just there to allow rheostatic braking in short bursts in electric mode when regenerative braking is not possible - for example when the train is in a neutral section. In diesel mode on 800s it's all friction braking.
Well that certainly makes a lot of sense, and now I know why they are designated different TOPS classes rather than both simply being classed as 800s. Many thanks for your most helpful information!
125 if rounded in the normal manner. So effectively no change as far as reasonable people are concerned.
No my point is by taking control away from the driver, things become LESS safe. If I don't need to worry about my speed between Paddington and Reading what do I have to worry about? Its only natural for minds to occasionally wonder. From someone who is actually a driver on the affected route I genuinely think if anything safety will be compromised and not enhanced, hence my outcry.
Really? That hasn't been the experience on the Devon banks though. Speed set is useless west of Taunton.
You're welcome. If you zoom in on this picture of an 800 and look at the roof of the second vehicle, then do the same on this picture of an 802, you can see the difference in the size of the brake resistors.
So what is the "prestige and excitement" lost when a train is running 1mph less than the round figure of 125? a) who knows? b) how many paying passengers care more about that than whether their train runs on time? c) is somebody going to take the railway to court on a false description of the service?
