GWR Class 769 information. (Units no longer with GWR - Off Lease March 23)

[TurboMan]

they haven't been running down to Gatwick on the recent training runs

The recent runs have included a lot more station stops to gather more sectional running time data. There isn't really a feasible path to stop everywhere and still run to Gatwick, hence only running to Redhill.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2022 ==

The trips last week all ran to time and it feels like FGW haven't given up yet.

Definitely not. Last Wednesday's run was to test the ASDO equipment - lots of people from various organisations involved, it would have been a waste of everyone's time if there was no realistic chance of 769s entering service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2022 ==

Ah right.. Perhaps I never noticed them, I'm sure there were different ones a week ago. Might delete then haha feel a bit silly now.

Don't worry about it, they're not that new, went up a couple of months ago (I think). The traction changeover signage is pretty much all in place now, bar that at Guildford and Wokingham.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Definitely not. Last Wednesday's run was to test the ASDO equipment - lots of people from various organisations involved, it would have been a waste of everyone's time if there was no realistic chance of 769s entering service.

Argh good but now it depends on how much disruption comes from the strikes knocking out driver training runs.

By the way do you know if the Southern Redhill GWR link will be trained on them?

 

[FenMan]

Realtime Trains reports 769930 has been for an (uneventful) run to Redhill today.

 

[Minstral25]

Realtime Trains reports 769930 has been for an (uneventful) run to Redhill today.

But only a single run to Redhill and back - they were doing two runs to Gatwick and back (although I note curtailment to Redhill to check station stops above).

 

[3973EXL]

STP 01/07 5Q10 1049 Eastleigh Works - Long Marston dep 1035 769939/947
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00891/2022-07-01/detailed

 

[Bjdaz76]

Realtime Trains | 3O10 0915 Reading Traincare Depot to Redhill | 13/07/2022

Real-time train running information for 3O10 0915 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Redhill on 13/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Minstral25]

Realtime Trains | 3O10 0915 Reading Traincare Depot to Redhill | 13/07/2022

Real-time train running information for 3O10 0915 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Redhill on 13/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Monday, Wednesday and Friday as normal.

 

[JN114]

Cancelled today, no competent driver available

 

[FenMan]

Cancelled today, no competent driver available

Which begs the question of how many competent drivers, those whose primary job is to drive GWR trains to and fro, are available? And how many more will be needed before the 769s finally limp into service on GWR?

To me, it looks like Dec 2023 at the earliest at this rate (assuming ASLEF are now ok with the mods to the cabs).

I get the strong impression GWR management lost interest long ago and no-one with any hopes of climbing the career ladder will go anywhere near this s***s**w. I worked for a global corporation for many years and know all too well how this stuff works.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I get the strong impression GWR management lost interest long ago and no-one with any hopes of climbing the career ladder will go anywhere near this s***s**w. I worked for a global corporation for many years and know all too well how this stuff works.

But the DfT are in charge and GWR have to make them work until such time as DfT call time.

 

[FenMan]

But the DfT are in charge and GWR have to make them work until such time as DfT call time.

Just like at GWR, I suspect no ambitious careerists in the DfT want to touch this with a bargepole.

And so things limp on, very-very-slowly.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Just like at GWR, I suspect no ambitious careerists in the DfT want to touch this with a bargepole.

And so things limp on, very-very-slowly.

Well given DfT are supposedly scrutinising every last penny the TOC wants to spend they haven't taken the easy option yet to make savings on these.

 

[Efini92]

There’s a rumour going round GWR are giving up with the 769’s and northern are getting them. Any truth in this?

 

[FenMan]

Well given DfT are supposedly scrutinising every last penny the TOC wants to spend they haven't taken the easy option yet to make savings on these.

Quite. No-one wants to own the decision.

“Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.”

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Quite. No-one wants to own the decision.

“Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.”

DfT have been pretty quick to off lease stock from SN & SWR to save modest leasing charges so my take is this is an easy option yet they keep funding it so they must be bought into the benefit of being able to move stock around GWR.

 

[FenMan]

DfT have been pretty quick to off lease stock from SN & SWR to save modest leasing charges so my take is this is an easy option yet they keep funding it so they must be bought into the benefit of being able to move stock around GWR.

People who work for the railway have stated (in this thread) that sending the rest of the 16xs west is no longer a priority. For example, peak demand in the Exeter/Bristol commuter markets remains nowhere near what it was pre-COVID.

I would suggest that if the leasing costs for 769s are that much more competitive than for the existing stock then the DfT would have pushed hard to bring them into service to displace 16xs sooner rather than later. That hasn't happened.

 

[YSTrains]

I'm lost here. Why aren't they in service yet?

 

[JonathanH]

There’s a rumour going round GWR are giving up with the 769’s and northern are getting them. Any truth in this?

Seems extremely unlikely that Northern would get GWR's 769s, regardless of whether GWR ever actually get them into service.

People who work for the railway have stated (in this thread) that sending the rest of the 16xs west is no longer a priority. For example, peak demand in the Exeter/Bristol commuter markets remains nowhere near what it was pre-COVID.

I think you are citing this post - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...mation-discussion.174866/page-57#post-5588266 - I am not sure that the reason stated is less demand in the west, just that extra services aren't going to be introduced and other options will exist before too long.

I would suggest that if the leasing costs for 769s are that much more competitive than for the existing stock then the DfT would have pushed hard to bring them into service to displace 16xs sooner rather than later. That hasn't happened.

Is it clear what more the DfT could actually do to push hard for 769s to go into service? If there is no agreement for driver training to happen, what power do they have to force that?

I'm lost here. Why aren't they in service yet?

They aren't accepted by traincrew and unions to start training and they also aren't reliable enough. Of the 19 units, it is reported that 6 are ready for service.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Seems extremely unlikely that Northern would get GWR's 769s, regardless of whether GWR ever actually get them into service.

Have they actually been tesetd on ac?

 

[JonathanH]

Have they actually been tesetd on ac?

Yes, GWR's units started by running to Didcot and Maidenhead from Reading in late March 2021, before they ventured onto the North Downs Line a few months later.

 

[Snow1964]

Is it clear what more the DfT could actually do to push hard for 769s to go into service? If there is no agreement for driver training to happen, what power do they have to force that?

Not aware of what DfT can do, they put it as a franchise requirement, there are penalties for non performance, then they seemed to not enforce it (reasonable during covid, but not clear why the non enforcement still applies).

Realistically they should set a deadline and say payments and penalties apply again after this date. But let’s be honest most of the testing should have been done before covid started, so continuing without them going into service and no target start is pretty gutless by DfT. There is nothing like being hit financially to focus management to deliver.

 

[craigybagel]

There’s a rumour going round GWR are giving up with the 769’s and northern are getting them. Any truth in this?

I can't think why Northern would want any more.

 

[Efini92]

I can't think why Northern would want any more.

Me neither but that’s the rumour that’s floating round at the minute.

 

[JonathanH]

Me neither but that’s the rumour that’s floating round at the minute.

Where is that rumour floating round? Anyone can start a rumour without there necessarily being any need for it to be credible.

 

[Efini92]

Where is that rumour floating round? Anyone can start a rumour without there necessarily being any need for it to be credible.

Northern

 

[TurboMan]

There’s a rumour going round GWR are giving up with the 769’s and northern are getting them. Any truth in this?

No truth whatsoever.

 

[Efini92]

No truth whatsoever.

Cheers. I did find it hard to believe but the guy that said it, tends to know what’s going on.

 

[Mollman]

I can't think why Northern would want any more.

Especially as Modern Railways reports the Northern are threatening to explore alternative options to replace their current 769s

 

[TurboMan]

Have they actually been tesetd on ac?

The GWR units usually run on AC between Didcot and Reading when sets are swapped between Reading TCD and Oxford sidings, and to come off Reading TCD for the Redhill runs, so they get some AC running on a semi-regular basis.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The rumour is wibble. The DfT has told GWR to get on with the introduction of their 769 units.

Northern is looking to do away with theirs, not take on any more!