Avanti West Coast Rolling Stock Updates

[Bletchleyite]

That is not good at all, taking into account the shoddy excuse for First Class in 745s, which is the same seat (possibly tiny bit wider) in a 2+1 layout.

There is a wider 1st version. Also has a bigger headrest, if I recall.

 

[Some guy]

Chester is CTR not CHS.
Looks like Holyhead extensions will be 2 down on the pre-covid 6tpd Voyagers.
How will Blackpool be resourced? 805s split from Chester services at Crewe?
Crewe will get its former 2tph non-stop back (to Glasgow/Liverpool).
At least the hourly Chester and 2-hourly Preston-Glasgow appear to be back.

Crewe won’t get the express Glasgow service as it looks like the Glasgow via Birmingham is returning. The Blackpool services should get 807s as they should be able to stop at kirkham and poulton

 

[Agent_Squash]

Crewe won’t get the express Glasgow service as it looks like the Glasgow via Birmingham is returning. The Blackpool services should get 807s as they should be able to stop at kirkham and poulton

Would Pendolino’s be able to stop at Kirkham with SDO?

 

[Razorblades]

They were on central rivers, im not sure where they are now. Presumably in a yard somewhere.

I would fully expect these to be properly warm stored by Beacon Rail in anticipation of transfer to another TOC, so the 'yard somewhere' will no doubt have ALSTOM on the gate.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Would Pendolino’s be able to stop at Kirkham with SDO?

I believe they can’t due to a rule where Pendolinos cannot have four or more carriages hanging off the platform.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Holyhead will stay the same as pre-COVID; I had thought pre-COVID was 4tpd from Euston (with 2tpd from Crewe or Birmingham)

Holyhead pre-covid was 6tpd - 7 if you count the early Birmingham-Holyhead and late return.
Through trains at 0810, 0910, 1610-1910 (1610 to Bangor, returning to Birmingham).
About half of these were double units to Chester - the 1610 notoriously not.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Holyhead pre-covid was 6tpd - 7 if you count the early Birmingham-Holyhead and late return.
Through trains at 0810, 0910, 1610-1910 (1610 to Bangor, returning to Birmingham).

Wonderful, much better North Wales service than I had anticipated beforehand. That will return

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Crewe won’t get the express Glasgow service as it looks like the Glasgow via Birmingham is returning. The Blackpool services should get 807s as they should be able to stop at kirkham and poulton

Sorry, by "non-stop" I meant using the fast lines through Crewe station, ie not stopping at Crewe!
In the 2008 VHF timetable there were 2 hourly non-stop paths through Crewe, for Liverpool and Glasgow.
Over the years the Liverpool has increasingly stopped at Crewe, leaving just the Glasgow flyer and a few peak Liverpools.
Looks like we will be back to the 2008 pattern.

 

[Wyrleybart]

They were on central rivers, im not sure where they are now. Presumably in a yard somewhere.

They were planned to move to Oxley but not sure whether it has happened yet.
Oxley is likely to be a busy place if all the ex AWC 221s go there as well as all the WMR class 730s possibly being maintained there i nthe absence of Duddeston and Bescot WMR depots.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They were planned to move to Oxley but not sure whether it has happened yet.
Oxley is likely to be a busy place if all the ex AWC 221s go there as well as all the WMR class 730s possibly being maintained there i nthe absence of Duddeston and Bescot WMR depots.

Plus the 805/807s when they arrive.

 

[Peter0124]

Crewe won’t get the express Glasgow service as it looks like the Glasgow via Birmingham is returning. The Blackpool services should get 807s as they should be able to stop at kirkham and poulton

Wait when is the Glasgow via Birmingham returning?

 

[Some guy]

Wait when is the Glasgow via Birmingham returning?

It’s either December 2022 or May 2023

 

[Peter0124]

It’s either December 2022 or May 2023

I thought I heard in one of the threads a few days ago that it isn't coming back for December, so it must be next year.

 

[Efini92]

I thought I heard in one of the threads a few days ago that it isn't coming back for December, so it must be next year.

There’s 3 an hour to Birmingham in December again but as I understood it, 2 would terminate at Birmingham.

 

[Peter0124]

There’s 3 an hour to Birmingham in December again but as I understood it, 2 would terminate at Birmingham.

Oh no I mean that the Glasgow probably isn't coming in December and will instead be a Blackpool still, so 3tph at Birmingham yeah, an increase from the current 2tph I suppose?

 

[Efini92]

Oh no I mean that the Glasgow probably isn't coming in December and will instead be a Blackpool still, so 3tph at Birmingham yeah, an increase from the current 2tph I suppose?

Sorry I miss read what you put. I thought you were asking, it’s getting late

 

[Roger B]

My mistake over Chester though it is of course obvious that I mean that rather than Churston Sidings

Holyhead will stay the same as pre-COVID; I had thought pre-COVID was 4tpd from Euston (with 2tpd from Crewe or Birmingham)

I believe Blackpool will be the same as pre-COVID which used additional paths alongside the TV Glasgow?

Crewe will not be served by an hourly Glasgow service. The Glasgow via Trent Valley will run non stop to Warrington. In addition, the Liverpool that calls at Crewe will also call at Milton Keynes. Crewe will lose off peak non-stop services to London.

Wasn't there an hourly Manchester service prior to the pandemic, calling STP, WML, CRE only - giving a CRE - EUS non-stop service throughout the day? Is this not being reinstated?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Wasn't there an hourly Manchester service prior to the pandemic, calling STP, WML, CRE only - giving a CRE - EUS non-stop service throughout the day? Is this not being reinstated?

It will now call additionally at Stafford. You can find out more in the December 2022 Timetable changes thread which covers more on it and is probably a more appropriate thread than this one

December 2022 Timetable Changes

May be wrong, but I think the Scotland via West Mids gains a Stafford call as well. It should’ve always has one. Especially when the train sits in Wolverhampton for 15 minutes it could easily serve Stafford

www.railforums.co.uk

Still no update on the off leased Voyagers?

 

[Agent_Squash]

I believe they can’t due to a rule where Pendolinos cannot have four or more carriages hanging off the platform.

I'm guessing this is to make sure both classes of travel are accommodated on the platform?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm guessing this is to make sure both classes of travel are accommodated on the platform?

Well, first class is typically in the last one or two carriages only now, and Haymarket I believe cannot have all carriages accommodated on an 11-390, so I’m sure it happens every now and then that first isn’t on the platform.

 

[Efini92]

I'm guessing this is to make sure both classes of travel are accommodated on the platform?

It’s because the SDO on 11 car pendolino is only able to lock the back 3 out.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Having read the brief on the December 22 changes, it seems Avanti can't run 805s to Llandudno because of a level-crossing issue at Deganwy.
Sounds like an excuse to me (221s got there in times past).
It reads as though the issue might be sorted separately by TfW, but if it needs resignalling on the branch it might be a long time coming!

We will not be offering direct services to Llandudno We have explored the
feasibility of extending services to Llandudno and concluded that this is not
deliverable Network Rail has advised us that we will be unable to operate these
additional services due to the safety risk associated with a level crossing and
associated Sustrans cycle route south of Deganwy Improved connectivity in future
may be provided more effectively through collaborative work to support Transport
for Wales’s future timetable aspirations

Looks like there might be a better offer for North Wales at weekends than previously.
Sat/Sun services have been very limited in the past, even in the tourist season.

On Birmingham-Liverpool, looks like WMT will only be running the current 1tph.
Possibly the second path from Crewe is given to the Avanti 2nd Liverpool service (807 operated).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having read the brief on the December 22 changes, it seems Avanti can't run 805s to Llandudno because of a level-crossing issue at Deganwy.

I'm not sure I wholly understand that unless it's about restricting frequencies on the branch in general, or unless it's some sort of sighting issue.

On the other hand, ensuring a quality connection between Holyhead services and Llandudno shuttles (porcine aviation?) is of more benefit, as then there's a quality journey 5 times a day* rather than once a week.

* Oh for the Welsh Government coughing up for a few more 805s to allow it to go hourly; it'd make timetabling the Coast so much easier.

 

[43055]

I'm not sure I wholly understand that unless it's about restricting frequencies on the branch in general, or unless it's some sort of sighting issue.

I can't see it being a frequency issue. If you really wanted you could get a train every 10 mins or so between Llandudno and the Junction.

I believe this is the level crossing mentioned. Can't think of what the issue could be.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Pep and co]

Just passed Allerton depot and thought I saw an Avanti voyager parked up outside? I pass here regularly and don't think I've ever seen one there before.

 

[800001]

The first complete 805 for Avanti is now undergoing testing at Newton Aycliffe, 805001.

 

[dereksingh291]

The first complete 805 for Avanti is now undergoing testing at Newton Aycliffe, 805001.

Is it in Avanti livery?

 

[800001]

Is it in Avanti livery?

I would imagine no, I have not see it, as it is inside the factory.

Can imagine it’s on the base grey the shells get delivered on.

 

[Bruce Hughes]

I'm not sure I wholly understand that unless it's about restricting frequencies on the branch in general, or unless it's some sort of sighting issue.

On the other hand, ensuring a quality connection between Holyhead services and Llandudno shuttles (porcine aviation?) is of more benefit, as then there's a quality journey 5 times a day* rather than once a week.

* Oh for the Welsh Government coughing up for a few more 805s to allow it to go hourly; it'd make timetabling the Coast so much easier.

Out of curiosity where's the evidence to support this that Welsh government are coughing up more money for 805 sets?

 

[Flying Snail]

Out of curiosity where's the evidence to support this that Welsh government are coughing up more money for 805 sets?

They aren't. He was expressing a wish that they would.