If coaches were fully or partly "first class" would you use them over rail?

[johncrossley]

It is almost impossible to sit next to someone on a normal coach without touching them. That's too intrusive for many used to travelling on long distance type trains, such as Class 390 and 800/1. But the better coaches used for private hire sometimes come with seats where you can pull the aisle seat away from the window seat. That gives you quite a bit of gap between the seats, meaning you get more room compared to a standard class seat on Avanti or LNER. So extra privacy without reducing the number of seats. National Express et al feel that even this is prohibitively expensive to provide. You sometimes get those nice coaches on National Express when the contractor is substituting the regular National Express coach with one that it normally uses on private hire work.

 

[BJames]

I must admit - I don't think there is anything that would make me use the coach over rail, because I find long-distance road journeys do make me feel quite queasy. Besides, it is almost always longer than the train and I will continue to happily pay a premium for this. There are some good advance fares anyway (e.g. I frequently can get £9.90 singles Nottingham to London with my railcard, and this is barely more than the coach!)

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Likewise. I can read or work on a train. On a coach I’ll feel desperately travel-sick within ten minutes.

 

[dan5324]

I mean at least with the coach you know the drivers aren’t gonna be on strike or the train replaced by an errr bus!

 

[gledhill56]

I mean at least with the coach you know the drivers aren’t gonna be on strike or the train replaced by an errr bus!

No guarantee coach drivers won’t strike either.

 

[Titfield]

No guarantee coach drivers won’t strike either.

I cant remember the last time there was a coach strike (as opposed to a bus strike).

 

[ClydeCoaster]

At least for Citylink it's not the vehicles that's the issue (aside from Parks frequently using unsuitable vehicles) but the lack of convenience. Anyone else who's had to queue for a Citylink vehicle at Union Square Bus Station in Aberdeen will know how much of a hellish experience it is, there's nowhere to queue and you always have people jumping ahead. Timetables could also do with a good increase, especially the Inverness services during the summer.

Several Citylink services are just as quick if not quicker than the train and significantly cheaper. I've used the Gold services to Inverness and Aberdeen and found them very good, compared to the last few long distance train services (recent being a horrific Nuneaton to Glasgow trek on Friday) which can be horribly overcrowded and full of stag and hen do parties. In fact on Friday a lovely family from Glasgow drunkenly told me to go somewhere pleasant when I pointed out they were in my seat.

The problem I have with Citylink is that the west coast services are frequently fully booked and I don't understand why either frequency isn't increased or double deck coaches aren't deployed. If a tri-axle Irizar can cope on the A82 an Elite can.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I forget where, but I am fairly sure there are low bridge issues on the Fort William/Skye run which precludes double deckers.

If they are booking up (and I agree they are, I have had to go via Inverness once because it did) then I too don't get why additional services are not put on.

 

[paul1609]

I think the low Bridges were on the A82 at Crianlarich which has now been bypassed. I think you could use double decker now but you wouldn't be able to serve Crianlarich Village.
Think the issue with the coaches being fully booked in summer is largely the senior citizens passes and the amount that Citylink gets for them means there is no business case for extra capacity.
I last used Citylink last October from Uig down to Spean Bridge and except from Portree to Kyle there weren't more than 10 passengers the whole way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the low Bridges were on the A82 at Crianlarich which has now been bypassed. I think you could use double decker now but you wouldn't be able to serve Crianlarich Village.

Ah yes, I think one is where it goes under the railway and then stops by the toilets for a bit in Crianlarich. That stop is quite popular for those who don't like squashing into coach toilets, but I suppose it isn't critical.

Here: https://www.google.com/maps/@56.3926678,-4.6190662,3a,75y,198.36h,86.01t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sSOdAnfK0RCSdB-IwDnwvlg!2e0!6shttps://streetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com/v1/thumbnail?panoid=SOdAnfK0RCSdB-IwDnwvlg&cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps&w=203&h=100&yaw=170.49355&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i16384!8i8192

I don't think it's be too hard to retain that stop if the Council were amenable to slightly rejigging the parking so a coach could safely be turned there (get rid of part of the bit where the bin is, and ban parking where the blue car is, and it could reverse in fairly easily). You could then approach via the A85 side instead.

 

[paul1609]

Ah yes, I think one is where it goes under the railway and then stops by the toilets for a bit in Crianlarich. That stop is quite popular for those who don't like squashing into coach toilets, but I suppose it isn't critical.

Here: https://www.google.com/maps/@56.3926678,-4.6190662,3a,75y,198.36h,86.01t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sSOdAnfK0RCSdB-IwDnwvlg!2e0!6shttps://streetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com/v1/thumbnail?panoid=SOdAnfK0RCSdB-IwDnwvlg&cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps&w=203&h=100&yaw=170.49355&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i16384!8i8192

I don't think it's be too hard to retain that stop if the Council were amenable to slightly rejigging the parking so a coach could safely be turned there (get rid of part of the bit where the bin is, and ban parking where the blue car is, and it could reverse in fairly easily). You could then approach via the A85 side instead.

The fag/toilet break has been at Tyndrum the next village up for many years.
Your link shows the view from the North of the railway on what was the old A82, unfortunately there is another railway bridge on the Oban branch on the A85 (previously A82) that's from memory 14 ft high and would prevent a double decker accessing that car park from the A82.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fag/toilet break has been at Tyndrum the next village up for many years.

Can't have been that many - it was definitely Crianlarich last time I used it, which is I think about 8 years ago.

Edit: it's Tyndrum one way, Crianlarich the other:

https://www.citylink.co.uk/media/gr4b23ev/glasgow-uig1.pdf

I suspect they've done this so that it isn't necessary to cross the road or go out of sight of the coach (other than when inside the toilets) in either case.

Your link shows the view from the North of the railway on what was the old A82, unfortunately there is another railway bridge on the Oban branch on the A85 (previously A82) that's from memory 14 ft high and would prevent a double decker accessing that car park from the A82.

This one?

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Odd that it has no markings on it.

 

[paul1609]

Can't have been that many - it was definitely Crianlarich last time I used it, which is I think about 8 years ago.

Edit: it's Tyndrum one way, Crianlarich the other:

https://www.citylink.co.uk/media/gr4b23ev/glasgow-uig1.pdf

I suspect they've done this so that it isn't necessary to cross the road or go out of sight of the coach (other than when inside the toilets) in either case.



This one?

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Odd that it has no markings on it.

That was the one I was thinking of but it may be higher than I remember. I think that the through A85 has a 14 ft advisory limit because of a low bridge between Tyndrum and Connel Bridge. Thinking about it that may be the issue with having double decker in the West Highlands as there would be no alternative route if the A82 accross Rannoch Moor was closed.

 

[GusB]

The title of the thread is "If coaches were fully or partly "first class" would you use them over rail?"

Please let's not get bogged down by discussing the finer points of the facilities and bridges at Crianlarich, and stay on topic!

Thanks

 

[miklcct]

Offering "first class" on coaches won't make me switch from trains. The reason I take a coach even a train is available include:

• The coach is more direct than rail. For example, if I want to go from Heathrow Airport to Bournemouth, a non-stop megabus M3 coach is my first choice.
• The railway is too slow, mostly because of engineering work closing lines. For example, if the direct line between Southampton and Clapham Junction is closed, a coach from London to Bournemouth can be faster than a train going via Guildford.
• The coach station is more convenient to access than the train station. For example, starting from North London to Birmingham, boarding a coach direct at Finchley Road may be time-competitive than going to central London / Watford Junction to board a train, as the long-distance train doesn't stop in zone 2 or 3.
• The coach ticket is cheaper. This sometimes happens if there is no cheap Advance tickets available for the train.

None of the above involves any class differentiation. In fact I don't even consider taking first class on a train unless the first class Advance fare is very close to, or even less than the cheapest available standard class fare.

 

[johncrossley]

Several Citylink services are just as quick if not quicker than the train and significantly cheaper. I've used the Gold services to Inverness and Aberdeen and found them very good, compared to the last few long distance train services (recent being a horrific Nuneaton to Glasgow trek on Friday) which can be horribly overcrowded and full of stag and hen do parties. In fact on Friday a lovely family from Glasgow drunkenly told me to go somewhere pleasant when I pointed out they were in my seat.

The problem I have with Citylink is that the west coast services are frequently fully booked and I don't understand why either frequency isn't increased or double deck coaches aren't deployed. If a tri-axle Irizar can cope on the A82 an Elite can.

Different rules apply in Scotland and in Ireland as the long distance rail network is less developed and slower than in England, and motorways are less congested. So there is much more of a level playing field.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Several Citylink services are just as quick if not quicker than the train and significantly cheaper. I've used the Gold services to Inverness and Aberdeen and found them very good, compared to the last few long distance train services (recent being a horrific Nuneaton to Glasgow trek on Friday) which can be horribly overcrowded and full of stag and hen do parties. In fact on Friday a lovely family from Glasgow drunkenly told me to go somewhere pleasant when I pointed out they were in my seat.

The problem I have with Citylink is that the west coast services are frequently fully booked and I don't understand why either frequency isn't increased or double deck coaches aren't deployed. If a tri-axle Irizar can cope on the A82 an Elite can.

Agree with your first point. I’m using Megabus/Citylink to get to Aberdeen on Friday from Halbeath. Only about 20mins longer than the train but feels faster as there is only two stops rather. I also like the clever way they do interconnections. With the coaches actually meeting up at the likes of Broxden and Dundee. So got a guaranteed seat both directions with less people getting on and off at multiple stops.

Could they make more of the incredible views that their routes take in Scotland? Maybe a pre-recorded tour that people could download in advance and listen to on their phones etc? Some of the journeys, like the journeys up the A9 or alongside Loch Ness have incredible views with probably a lot of history that people may not know.

 

[Astradyne]

They do have luxury coaches in the UK; this 2019 VDL Futura to Leger Luxuria standards is on the market for a little shy of £200k. But you would probably have to pay more than double the standard price ticket to get one of it's 31 seats, if it were to be used on National Express style service. There is also a 2016 model advertised.

2019 VDL Futura - Vehicle Availability - Roger Dyson Group

Supplier of new and used breakdown recovery vehicles and towing equipment. Also offers after sales and servicing.

www.rogerdyson.com

 

[Flying Snail]

They do have luxury coaches in the UK; this 2019 VDL Futura to Leger Luxuria standards is on the market for a little shy of £200k. But you would probably have to pay more than double the standard price ticket to get one of it's 31 seats, if it were to be used on National Express style service. There is also a 2016 model advertised.

2019 VDL Futura - Vehicle Availability - Roger Dyson Group

Supplier of new and used breakdown recovery vehicles and towing equipment. Also offers after sales and servicing.

www.rogerdyson.com

Availability is not the issue, if a customer wants a high spec 2+1 interior that is what the manufacturer will provide. Stagecoach wanted a weird convertible seat/bed arrangement for the Megabus sleeper and it was built for them.

As you say it will be the making it pay that is the issue. 31 seats in a 14m coach is basically half the standard capacity, finding enough people every day willing to pay a premium price for that on a UK scheduled service would be virtually impossible.

Even if you only provided a segment of the coach with the 2+1 layout as in the Latvian coach video at the start of the thread, unlike Rail and airlines there is no option of having sky-high expense account fares for peak business services effectively funding carting fresh air for the rest of a coach's daily diagram.

Let's not forget the snob factor, there is a significant % of the population that will not ever consider bus/coach travel and I'd bet this will have a big overlap with the segment of the population that would be willing to pay extra for a luxury seat.

Also, looking at that video, there is no way that would have worked in the UK. The standard area was full but no-one chanced their arm moving back to the premium seats once the bus was moving? In this part of the world it would be a constant battle to keep people from occupying the seats without paying. It would have to be provided at the front where the driver would be able to police it.

 

[gingerheid]

I always use LuxExpress if I'm travelling between the Baltic states, and I always happily pay the extra to use them rather than the other alternatives. To a certain extent I'll even consider making a journey I can make with them rather than one I can't.

Of course running alongside this is that on these routes the competition is less comfortable coaches or air; the relevant rail services not really currently existing! If there were feasible train alternatives (whether UK regional style or Rail Baltica style) then I wouldn't use them at all!