South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Envoy]

well if you're going as far as Llantrisant , you can go as far as Beddau - and from there - a mile or so up the track you have an alignment that could connect you right to Pontypridd.
with trams it's somewhat easier.


What you've read has been suggested a couple of times over the years, -- I guess it's a long way down the road, part of the metro is what Cardiff Council wants to create with Cross rail
and this Llantrisant was part of that at some point.

Cardiff Council drew up a Local Development Plan that permitted a huge area for housing development running across farmland NW of the city. The Welsh Government said they would not allow this massive increase in population to have access to the M4 at or near J33. This results in the new residents having to use the present road network and St.Fagans is already seeing the results of this with an increase in traffic - along with Radyr, Groes Faen, Llandaff & Fairwater. The route of former rail lines through this area has always been protected as a possibility for a new Metro line.

 

[Tumbleweed]

well if you're going as far as Llantrisant , you can go as far as Beddau - and from there - a mile or so up the track you have an alignment that could connect you right to Pontypridd.
with trams it's somewhat easier.


What you've read has been suggested a couple of times over the years, -- I guess it's a long way down the road, part of the metro is what Cardiff Council wants to create with Cross rail
and this Llantrisant was part of that at some point.

I think the alignment from Creigiau to Tonteg is mostly still there (minus a bridge in Efail Isaf and the by-pass in the way now). Though a proposed cycle track on it was blocked by some of the people of Efail Isaf many years ago. Wonder how would they react to a functioning railway....

 

[WesternBiker]

The route of former rail lines through this area has always been protected as a possibility for a new Metro line.

Most of the routes seem to be clear - but hasn't a short section of the branch towards Creigiau been built over, where the former Waterhall Junction was (just north of Fairwater station)? What would be the plan there?

 

[Tumbleweed]

Most of the routes seem to be clear - but hasn't the branch towards Creigiau has been built over, where the former Waterhall Junction was (just north of Fairwater station)?

Yes - however it would more than likely be subject to a compulsory purchase order.

 

[WesternBiker]

Yes - however it would more than likely be subject to a compulsory purchase order.

So it would seem. I've just had a look at street view: the houses look relatively modern (1980s/90s?). A pity a bit of foresight wasn't shown...

 

[Tumbleweed]

So it would seem. I've just had a look at street view: the houses look relatively modern (1980s/90s?). A pity a bit of foresight wasn't shown...

Yes, they were built in the 80's.

Foresight is not a trait associated with local government, especially in Wales.

 

[stressdoubt]

I think the alignment from Creigiau to Tonteg is mostly still there (minus a bridge in Efail Isaf and the by-pass in the way now). Though a proposed cycle track on it was blocked by some of the people of Efail Isaf many years ago. Wonder how would they react to a functioning railway....

There is a missing bridge where the line goes over the line to Rhiwsaeson just on the edge of Tyn-y-Coed woods and in Creigiau itself the deck of the bridge over Cardiff Rd went years ago and then they widened the road in the mid to late 80s (to smooth out the nasty s-bend in the road caused by the old bridge) and the sides went too so that would need replacing

 

[ancientsolar]

So there's the plan first to have the trams run to Cardiff Bay* and then stage eventually onto Cardiff Parkway -- given this will be the first test for on street running - anything that comes after regarding Llantrisant will have already had some idea with on Street trams (if the trams had to cross any roads etc because of built on track bed)

There was a recent article about extending Cardiff Bay to the new arena*

Going to Beddau following the A473 could be a good place for a Parkway Station -- then I believe we rejoin the alignment of another **former railway on the A473 which connects to the railway to the CVL toward Pontypridd -- **the former one that goes through Creigiau

Pontyclun-Llantrisant-Beddau-Tonteg - Pontypridd .. bringing into use the bay platform or carrying on to one of the termini.

I must say, it could be many many many years until even as far as Llantrisant happens - it would be ideal to 4 track Cardiff - Bridgend and electrify it.

 

[stressdoubt]

So there's the plan first to have the trams run to Cardiff Bay* and then stage eventually onto Cardiff Parkway -- given this will be the first test for on street running - anything that comes after regarding Llantrisant will have already had some idea with on Street trams (if the trams had to cross any roads etc because of built on track bed)

There was a recent article about extending Cardiff Bay to the new arena*

Going to Beddau following the A473 could be a good place for a Parkway Station -- then I believe we rejoin the alignment of another **former railway on the A473 which connects to the railway to the CVL toward Pontypridd -- **the former one that goes through Creigiau

Pontyclun-Llantrisant-Beddau-Tonteg - Pontypridd .. bringing into use the bay platform or carrying on to one of the termini.

I must say, it could be many many many years until even as far as Llantrisant happens - it would be ideal to 4 track Cardiff - Bridgend and electrify it.

I think if anything at all happens and it gets as far as Creigiau it might even terminate short of the line crossing Cardiff Rd to save ££. That would tick off a couple of things:

1 - Going through Plasdwr and serving the new community there
2 - J33 interchange & the expansion of Capel Llanilltern

By terminating short of Cardiff Rd they would save on the ££ of buiding a new bridge but then again as these are tram trains they could put a cutting in to bring the line down to the level of the road on both sides and then get to the old station site that way which would probably be cheaper than a bridge - the advatnage of going that few hundred yards extra is that there is a large parcel of land around the station site which would be a hand place for a station carpark or even overnight stabling for trains - unless someone stupidly sold it off of course!

 

[Envoy]

I think the plan is to come off the City Line just north of Fairwater station and then follow the old single track railway out towards Cregiau. As this route was destroyed near J33, they might use St.Y Nyll lane underpass to get north of the M4. Then through the new Llanilltern development area to reach the former dual track line that once crossed the Ely Valley at Drope (near Culverhouse Cross). The route would then reach Cregiau and get to the north side of the A4119 by using the present underpass still in place on the old railway.

What they should now be doing is determining where the stations will go and how they best fit with the new developments as well as serving older settlements such as St.Fagans and Rhdylava with Park & Ride at nearest locations (eg.Croft-Y-Gennau Road).

You will note that mention has been made of a reconfiguration being needed at Cardiff west junction - near the Canton depot in order to increase the number of services on the City Line (west) from the present half hourly. This is absolutely vital and is of course, on the section owned by Network Rail. It surely would be beneficial to have this route electrified between Central & Ninian Park as that would enable GWR to run Electrostars as soccer specials direct to Ninian Park station - thus freeing IET’s for regular passengers.

 

[DaveHarries]

I think the plan is to come off the City Line just north of Fairwater station and then follow the old single track railway out towards Cregiau. As this route was destroyed near J33, they might use St.Y Nyll lane underpass to get north of the M4. Then through the new Llanilltern development area to reach the former dual track line that once crossed the Ely Valley at Drope (near Culverhouse Cross). The route would then reach Cregiau and get to the north side of the A4119 by using the present underpass still in place on the old railway.

Having just looked at the section near Fairwater station on Google Earth the route looks as if it has been built on so I wonder what route they will use. Is there a map online somewhere showing the planned route?

Dave

 

[Envoy]

Having just looked at the section near Fairwater station on Google Earth the route looks as if it has been built on so I wonder what route they will use. Is there a map online somewhere showing the planned route?

Dave

The only map I saw was prepared by Cardiff Council for the LDP and showed the potential new rail line going through the few houses that now occupy the former track bed just NW of Fairwater station.

 

[rf_ioliver]

I think the alignment from Creigiau to Tonteg is mostly still there (minus a bridge in Efail Isaf and the by-pass in the way now). Though a proposed cycle track on it was blocked by some of the people of Efail Isaf many years ago. Wonder how would they react to a functioning railway....

More less, the bridge at Efail Isaf went years ago IIRC. The area around the the top of Power Station Hill would require some interesting engineering over the roundabout. There's a picture on this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonteg_Halt_railway_station

 

[Envoy]

I note that many people don't have much idea about ‘The Metro’ or even what the routes will be. Might it not be a good idea to start painting the word METRO on the sides of Metro line bridges - at least those parts which the yobs can’t reach with their graffiti? Many of the bridges look grotty and have not been painted for years so why not use them for this purpose? One such bridge is shown in the photo below:>

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I note that many people don't have much idea about ‘The Metro’ or even what the routes will be. Might it not be a good idea to start painting the word METRO on the sides of Metro line bridges - at least those parts which the yobs can’t reach with their graffiti? Many of the bridges look grotty and have not been painted for years so why not use them for this purpose? One such bridge is shown in the photo below:>

A bridge in Central Cardiff just opposite the Queen Street Sainsbury's is adorned with an all over advert proudly advertising the long defunct TOC "Valley Lines," which I believe to have been dead since 2001!

 

[Dai Corner]

A bridge in Central Cardiff just opposite the Queen Street Sainsbury's is adorned with an all over advert proudly advertising the long defunct TOC "Valley Lines," which I believe to have been dead since 2001!

Perhaps a quick fix might be to prefix it with 'Core'? (I know that wouldn't be strictly accurateJ

 

[2T57]

A bridge in Central Cardiff just opposite the Queen Street Sainsbury's is adorned with an all over advert proudly advertising the long defunct TOC "Valley Lines," which I believe to have been dead since 2001!

Captured perfectly by Google Maps in 2020 with a 150 coupled to a Pacer crossing over it...

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

 

[Envoy]

Captured perfectly by Google Maps in 2020 with a 150 coupled to a Pacer crossing over it...

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

Looks a complete mess for people entering leaving the CBD.

Perhaps a quick fix might be to prefix it with 'Core'? (I know that wouldn't be strictly accurateJ

Joe Public just wont get what ‘core’ means. A simple METRO will suffice in my opinion.

 

[John R]

The irony is that anyone approaching the centre from the Newport Rd direction was not able to benefit remotely from the Valley Lines services as existed at the time. (Arguably Ebbw Vale commuters now would be.)

 

[Dr Day]

Joe Public just wont get what ‘core’ means. A simple METRO will suffice in my opinion.

Will Joe Public get what Metro means either? Underneath it is still the same Valley Lines. Ok some shiny new trains and a few extra ones to Queen St/direct to Cardiff Bay, but will anyone really care that the signallers for the bit North of Radyr don't work for Network Rail or that the trains are bi/trimode, provided they can get a seat and still get to Barry Island on a sunny day?

 

[allaction]

The only map I saw was prepared by Cardiff Council for the LDP and showed the potential new rail line going through the few houses that now occupy the former track bed just NW of Fairwater station.

I know the owner of one of those houses and he’s certainly been aware of the likelihood of a Compulsory Purchase Order, should the line be reinstated, for a good few years now.

 

[Cardiff123]

Will Joe Public get what Metro means either? Underneath it is still the same Valley Lines. Ok some shiny new trains and a few extra ones to Queen St/direct to Cardiff Bay, but will anyone really care that the signallers for the bit North of Radyr don't work for Network Rail or that the trains are bi/trimode, provided they can get a seat and still get to Barry Island on a sunny day?

When control of signalling is transferred to Taffs Well, all signallers on the CVL will work for TfW

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Anyone who uses the sneering term "Joe Public" loses their right to an opinion in my view. What's wrong with the word people?

 

[John R]

Anyone who uses the sneering term "Joe Public" loses their right to an opinion in my view. What's wrong with the word people?

I don’t regard it as sneering. It just means someone that doesn’t have the specific interest or knowledge in the topic in question.

I would regard myself as “joe public” for many (if not the majority) of topics that one might come across in life, and I wouldn’t regard it as condescending in any way.

 

[Envoy]

I don’t regard it as sneering. It just means someone that doesn’t have the specific interest or knowledge in the topic in question.

I would regard myself as “joe public” for many (if not the majority) of topics that one might come across in life, and I wouldn’t regard it as condescending in any way.

Spot on - you have described the meaning of my use of the term ‘Joe Public’ perfectly.

I know the owner of one of those houses and he’s certainly been aware of the likelihood of a Compulsory Purchase Order, should the line be reinstated, for a good few years now.

Yes, these people are in a terrible situation not knowing what will happen.

I now see that a site (planning) inspection is taking place at the proposed new Velindre Hospital in the Whitchurch area of Cardiff. Most people probably don't realise it but this could be served by a new station in the event that the Coryton to Radyr missing link is ever built to a complete a circle line around Cardiff. I wonder if the plans for the hospital have taken account of this in order to provide the shortest walking route to the main entrance? Alternatively, might they just walk from the present Coryton station - which of course, would benefit by the link to lines coming down the Taff Valley?

Councillors vote to visit site of controversial cancer hospital development

Ted Peskett, local democracy reporter Members of Cardiff Council’s planning committee voted in favour of a site visit to a controversial hospital development. The planning committee voted for the visit to the location of the approved Velindre Cancer Centre off Park Road after concerns were...

nation.cymru

 

[cjp4]

Amey have submitted a planning application to Cardiff Council (PRAP/22/00032/MJR) for the Cardiff Bay branch including double track, an upgraded Cardiff Bay station in the same location with 2 platforms (and space for future track extensions south/east amd a 3rd platform) and a new station slightly north for Butetown.

The existing embankments look like they are staying and the works don't look temporary so I think that's goodbye to the "Flourish" station allowing for the Crossrail extensions as the area is redeveloped.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Link here https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/plans-revealed-transform-cardiff-bay-24301679

Looks much better than the current arrangement, assumedly this would stay if a Crossrail spur was installed at some point.

 

[davetheguard]

I note that many people don't have much idea about ‘The Metro’ or even what the routes will be. Might it not be a good idea to start painting the word METRO on the sides of Metro line bridges - at least those parts which the yobs can’t reach with their graffiti? Many of the bridges look grotty and have not been painted for years so why not use them for this purpose? One such bridge is shown in the photo below:>

I notice the advertising for Hancocks Beers on the bridge in question. I don't think that even exists as a separate brewery anymore, does it? As you say, probably hasn't been repainted for years.

 

[sefyllian]

The existing embankments look like they are staying and the works don't look temporary so I think that's goodbye to the "Flourish" station allowing for the Crossrail extensions as the area is redeveloped.

It’s quite a downgrade from the previous plan, but there are prospective lines indicated (in purple below) for “future continuation to Pier Head Street" plus a potential platform 3, so at least they’ve left space to allow that to happen if/when needed.



It does mean the only small section of on-road running in the whole scheme has been removed though, so the tram-trains will not actually run as trams for a long while yet.

Full plans.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I notice the advertising for Hancocks Beers on the bridge in question. I don't think that even exists as a separate brewery anymore, does it? As you say, probably hasn't been repainted for years.

It hasn't existed since the 1970s when it became part of Welsh Brewers which was in turn owned by Bass. Welsh Brewers itself disappeared in the 1990s when its brewery was sold to Brains.One of their brands, Hancocks HB, survived the demise and is brewed these days by the Glamorgan brewery.