SouthEastern announce planned strike (21, 23 and 25 June) day service

[Cletus]

Here's a map of Southeastern's planned services.

Strike action | Southeastern

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

 

[JonathanH]

It is interesting that they can't get any service on the Hayes branch given the other services from London Bridge and the fact that the Metro area is all driver only operation.

Otherwise, the very limited number of routes isn't particularly surprising for the first strike dates.

It would be interesting to know how many signalling managers are needed to run this level of service.

 

[skyhigh]

It is interesting that they can't get any service on the Hayes branch given the other services from London Bridge and the fact that the Metro area is all driver only operation.

I expect signallers will be the limiting factor.

 

[andystock22]

That is one heavy reduced service which leaves most of Kent without a rail service.

I think many commuters will be in for a shock when they see this.

 

[2021_Signaller]

It will be chaotic. The contingency planning for this scenario is bare bones and its likely there will be massive disruption to even this reduced service.

 

[JonathanH]

It will be chaotic. The contingency planning for this scenario is bare bones and its likely there will be massive disruption to even this reduced service.

Why should it be more chaotic? It is presumably the service that can operate with the bare minimum of signallers, unless you are suggesting that those signalling managers aren't going to turn up. The trains themselves are running DOO and just shuttling back and forth on one route.

 

[paul1609]

That is one heavy reduced service which leaves most of Kent without a rail service.

I think many commuters will be in for a shock when they see this.

I don't, they will just work from home or drive to North Greenwich if they need to go in to town.

 

[2021_Signaller]

Why should it be more chaotic? It is presumably the service that can operate with the bare minimum of signallers, unless you are suggesting that those signalling managers aren't going to turn up. The trains themselves are running DOO and just shuttling back and forth on one route.

The LOMs, if indeed they do show up since they can strike the same as any other staff if they're RMT, are doing crash courses on the workstations with little experience of actually signalling. Mistakes will happen. They have little relevant experience. Amazing that signallers are expected to pass out on these workstations over weeks or months but during a strike they think they can throw anyone on them and work it fine with a reduced service.

Any incident will grind the service to a halt. I have no idea what cover there will be on the ground either as MOMs, S&T and P-Way may all be out as well. There's no way this will be anything other than a mess ... again showing why you can't use 'agency staff' to step in for safety critical roles - it will be a disaster.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Worth saying that:

- Hayes is on a now TB Roc desk, having been on an LB PSB panel.
- Orpington somehow gets 6tph.
- Metro must suffer* a 2tph service.
- One assumes they are getting enough managers to do Dartford station.

This is a bad idea. Especially half-hourly Ashford to St Pancras. Best thing for it is to provide a more regular High Speed or close the network outside of London and not run the Bexleyheath line. Concentrate resources onto Dartford - Abbey Wood -
London (Lizzy line) and via Hither Green as that side is clearly already open and available for Orpington trains.

* It is not a good idea to provide half-hourly and crush-load it, even if you remove a few stops.

Anyway, I predict a total mess.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I think many commuters will be in for a shock when they see this.

Most will just WFH, the world is a different place now.

 

[londonteacher]

MOMs, S&T and P-Way may all be out as well.

I would hope that even if there was no service there would be a minimum amount of staff for safety reasons in emergencies.

 

[2021_Signaller]

I would hope that even if there was no service there would be a minimum amount of staff for safety reasons in emergencies.

Well apparently our transport minister has announced that agency staff are capable replacements ...

 

[Class 466]

Worth saying that:

- Hayes is on a now TB Roc desk, having been on an LB PSB panel.
- Orpington somehow gets 6tph.
- Metro must suffer* a 2tph service.
- One assumes they are getting enough managers to do Dartford station.

This is a bad idea. Especially half-hourly Ashford to St Pancras. Best thing for it is to provide a more regular High Speed or close the network outside of London and not run the Bexleyheath line. Concentrate resources onto Dartford - Abbey Wood -
London (Lizzy line) and via Hither Green as that side is clearly already open and available for Orpington trains.

* It is not a good idea to provide half-hourly and crush-load it, even if you remove a few stops.

Anyway, I predict a total mess.

Half hourly 12 car HS from Ashford will be fine.

 

[CFRAIL]

Worth saying that:

- Hayes is on a now TB Roc desk, having been on an LB PSB panel.
- Orpington somehow gets 6tph.
- Metro must suffer* a 2tph service.
- One assumes they are getting enough managers to do Dartford station.

This is a bad idea. Especially half-hourly Ashford to St Pancras. Best thing for it is to provide a more regular High Speed or close the network outside of London and not run the Bexleyheath line. Concentrate resources onto Dartford - Abbey Wood -
London (Lizzy line) and via Hither Green as that side is clearly already open and available for Orpington trains.

* It is not a good idea to provide half-hourly and crush-load it, even if you remove a few stops.

Anyway, I predict a total mess.

Metro is 6 tph all from Dartford to LBG... 2 via Sidcup, 2 via Woolwich and 2 via Bexleyheath

 

[yorksrob]

Worth saying that:

- Hayes is on a now TB Roc desk, having been on an LB PSB panel.
- Orpington somehow gets 6tph.
- Metro must suffer* a 2tph service.
- One assumes they are getting enough managers to do Dartford station.

This is a bad idea. Especially half-hourly Ashford to St Pancras. Best thing for it is to provide a more regular High Speed or close the network outside of London and not run the Bexleyheath line. Concentrate resources onto Dartford - Abbey Wood -
London (Lizzy line) and via Hither Green as that side is clearly already open and available for Orpington trains.

* It is not a good idea to provide half-hourly and crush-load it, even if you remove a few stops.

Anyway, I predict a total mess.

Isn't Ashford HS1 half hourly anyway ?

 

[Class 466]

Isn't Ashford HS1 half hourly anyway ?

Off peak yeah. And only 6 cars so this is an increase in capacity overall.

 

[yorksrob]

Off peak yeah. And only 6 cars so this is an increase in capacity overall.

Indeed. I tend to use the classic lines myself.

 

[Geoff_K]

Timetables now uploaded - just below map.

Strike action | Southeastern

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

 

[Andy Pacer]

Most will just WFH, the world is a different place now.

I'm sure many will be delighted at the excuse.

 

[Horizon22]

Worth saying that:

- Hayes is on a now TB Roc desk, having been on an LB PSB panel.
- Orpington somehow gets 6tph.
- Metro must suffer* a 2tph service.
- One assumes they are getting enough managers to do Dartford station.

This is a bad idea. Especially half-hourly Ashford to St Pancras. Best thing for it is to provide a more regular High Speed or close the network outside of London and not run the Bexleyheath line. Concentrate resources onto Dartford - Abbey Wood -
London (Lizzy line) and via Hither Green as that side is clearly already open and available for Orpington trains.

* It is not a good idea to provide half-hourly and crush-load it, even if you remove a few stops.

Anyway, I predict a total mess.

When it comes to "bad idea" I suspect much of it (and indeed every other TOC) will be "only idea". There are going to be so many restrictions in what is actually possible considering how many grades from both NR and TOCs are out on strike and it may be lop-sided and skewed in certain parts of the network as different areas can muster different contingencies.

The argument however is an interesting one - do you provide a minimal service that has the potential to be crush-loaded and/or potentially dangerously overcrowded, or simply not provide any service at all? Not a fun call to make.

 

[43066]

This is a bad idea. Especially half-hourly Ashford to St Pancras.

I dread to think what that will be like as they seem to be incredibly busy at the best of times.

 

[Horizon22]

I dread to think what that will be like as they seem to be incredibly busy at the best of times.

Southeastern have also put out “Do Not Travel”. Somewhat mixed messaging, but at the same time there’s a need to tell those who have literally no other option what is happening.

Not sure there’s any way to get it right - it’s going to be a very messy week.

 

[43066]

Southeastern have also put out “Do Not Travel”. Somewhat mixed messaging, but at the same time there’s a need to tell those who have literally no other option what is happening.

Not sure there’s any way to get it right - it’s going to be a very messy week.

Yep. I think the storm Eunice experience a few months back showed erring on the side of caution is preferable. Encouraging as few as possible to travel is better all round (including for those working trains!) than being over optimistic and then leaving more people stranded/unable to board.

 

[XAM2175]

Southeastern have also put out “Do Not Travel”. Somewhat mixed messaging, but at the same time there’s a need to tell those who have literally no other option what is happening.

Not sure there’s any way to get it right - it’s going to be a very messy week.

Yes, it's a losing position however they go about, but providing a very basic people for people who absolutely do need to travel while advising that people consider that need very carefully seems to me to be a reasonable blend of making an effort while also being realistic.

 

[Class 466]

I know that some operators are planning a Sunday level of service on the inbetween days - sensible compared to this 'There's going to be disruption' approach imo.

 

[Horizon22]

I know that some operators are planning a Sunday level of service on the inbetween days - sensible compared to this 'There's going to be disruption' approach imo.

I think in reality, very few will be able to manage what we would conisder a true Sunday service - most are planning for 0700-1900 (at best), and only a few tph on some routes, with others potentially completely unserved. That's far worse than any Sunday (barring significant engineering works and an earlier start-up).

I hardly think that a dedicated page with fully accessible timetables and a map highlighting what routes are running is just "there's going to be disruption".

 

[Class 466]

I think in reality, very few will be able to manage what we would conisder a true Sunday service - most are planning for 0700-1900 (at best), and only a few tph on some routes, with others potentially completely unserved. That's far worse than any Sunday (barring significant engineering works and an earlier start-up).

I hardly think that a dedicated page with fully accessible timetables and a map highlighting what routes are running is just "there's going to be disruption".

My post was in reference to the days in between strikes where a full ish timetable is being planned to run on Southeastern with a later start, not the strike days. For Example GTR are advertising they'll be running a Sunday Service on those dates (Wednesday, Friday & Sunday)

 

[Horizon22]

My post was in reference to the days in between strikes where a full ish timetable is being planned to run on Southeastern with a later start, not the strike days. For Example GTR are advertising they'll be running a Sunday Service on those dates (Wednesday, Friday & Sunday)

Ah I see. Yes that could be explained a bit better, but there's still unknowns.

What GTR (Southern) are actually advertising for those days are: "services will also be severely disrupted and we will run an amended Sunday service, no trains will start running before 0715" (my bold). So I think a fair bit different from Sunday once crew and stock diagrams are in place and the fallout from the previous days goes over. They also haven't published their strike day timetables (and GTR are of course not on strike - they are "action short of") which will have some bearing on what is achievable.

 

[LAX54]

I think in reality, very few will be able to manage what we would conisder a true Sunday service - most are planning for 0700-1900 (at best), and only a few tph on some routes, with others potentially completely unserved. That's far worse than any Sunday (barring significant engineering works and an earlier start-up).

I hardly think that a dedicated page with fully accessible timetables and a map highlighting what routes are running is just "there's going to be disruption".

If I recall, back in 94 the GE ran an hourly service from about 0730 to 1830 or so, (and other trains ad hoc if they could) it seemed to work quite well, many were 12 cars, seem to remember sitting on the A12 at Boreham on a strike day, and trains were passing quite happily, whilst we were stuck for ages in a jam

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Most will just WFH, the world is a different place now.

Um, not for people like me who cannot possibly work from home....

No service whatsoever on my line, wouldn't have minded if SE managed at minimum, a 2-hourly service or a peak hour only service. HS1 and St Pancras is of no use to me

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2022 ==

I'm sure many will be delighted at the excuse.

I'm so glad that I am not one of the "many"...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2022 ==

Half hourly 12 car HS from Ashford will be fine.

For whom? Not for people like me where HS1 is of no use....