Sundays - back to the traditional?

[61653 HTAFC]

That would be an ecumenical matter.

If ever there was a case for a "like" button...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2022 ==

Not a specific religion, basically something which covers the three mainstream faiths in this country, without distinguishing. There are numerous ways the government could do it; an address given by the Queen or the PM (although perhaps not this PM), social media messaging, slogans even. Just something to try and grab people's attention.

This is utter nonsense I'm afraid. I've tried my best to be diplomatic but the gloves are off now. The idea that submission to a higher power, real or imagined, will magically turn everyone into happy clappy obedient drones, suggest a view of humanity that is not very charitable at all. If this is really your worldview, you have my deepest sympathy.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This is the part of your reply I take most issue with - 'encouragement from the government' for people to a) follow a particular faith or b) attend church if they do. There is absolutely no way it's the State's role to tell anybody which religion, if any, to follow, or how to conduct their faith.

What religious knowledge is possessed by the ruling monarch of this country to enable them to be head of the Church of England?

 

[Bald Rick]

However, I stand by my view that there should be a government 'promotion' of Sunday being a day of rest and relaxation if possible

out of interest, why Sunday? And not any of the other days available?

and also encouragement from the government for people to think about going to church, regardless of how strong or weak their faith is.

I go to a place of worship, roughly every other week. Often on Sundays. I sing songs, sit down for some things but stand up for others, occasionally receive bread and wine, and pray that things will get better. With thousands of others.

The church is called Molineux. My faith is strong, and I have no need to go anywhere else. Thank you.

 

[johnnychips]

What religious knowledge is possessed by the ruling monarch of this country to enable them to be head of the Church of England?

Actually, I would have expected the Queen to know a lot as she has always taken her duties very seriously - and I’m no monarchist. However, I can’t see how Charles can ever be credible because of his divorce: OK we can’t all be perfect, but if we follow the bible’s principles, I would have thought that breaking this one was more serious than avoiding women on their period.

 

[43096]

Actually, I would have expected the Queen to know a lot as she has always taken her duties very seriously - and I’m no monarchist. However, I can’t see how Charles can ever be credible because of his divorce: OK we can’t all be perfect, but if we follow the bible’s principles, I would have thought that breaking this one was more serious than avoiding women on their period.

Why wouldn't he be credible because of his divorce? Just to remind you (and many others who forget this) that the reason the CofE exists is because Henry VIII wanted to divorce Catherine of Aragon and the Pope had said no.

 

[Philip]

If ever there was a case for a "like" button...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2022 ==


This is utter nonsense I'm afraid. I've tried my best to be diplomatic but the gloves are off now. The idea that submission to a higher power, real or imagined, will magically turn everyone into happy clappy obedient drones, suggest a view of humanity that is not very charitable at all. If this is really your worldview, you have my deepest sympathy.

The problem is you keep exaggerating what I have said. I have said that a less secular/more religious country may improve things like crime and may lead to more people looking to build social relationships rather than relying too much on material aspects of life. I haven't said we would become 'happy chappy obedient drones' - they're your words.

out of interest, why Sunday? And not any of the other days available?

Even in this present age, Sunday is still the day of the week of which people are off work the most, by a long way. Even from a non-religious perspective, it has long been seen traditionally as a day of rest, more so than any other day of the week.

 

[Jimini]

out of interest, why Sunday? And not any of the other days available?



I go to a place of worship, roughly every other week. Often on Sundays. I sing songs, sit down for some things but stand up for others, occasionally receive bread and wine, and pray that things will get better. With thousands of others.

The church is called Molineux. My faith is strong, and I have no need to go anywhere else. Thank you.

Yet another post today worthy of a 'like' button being installed!

 

[johnnychips]

Why wouldn't he be credible because of his divorce? Just to remind you (and many others who forget this) that the reason the CofE exists is because Henry VIII wanted to divorce Catherine of Aragon and the Pope had said no.

Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous. Hebrews 13:4.

To be honest does anybody give a monkey’s about all this these days?

 

[Runningaround]

Well in reference to my earlier post about a possible reduction in crime; crime and anti-social behavior has gone up significantly since the 1950s which corresponds to a similar timeframe of people attending church less and the society becoming more secular.



That is different from objecting to physical homosexual relationships. Love doesn't have to be physical relations.

Yes especially since victims have had the courage to report paedophile priests those statistics of gone through the roof yet crime stats a for when they were recorded not when it happened, if kids still spoke when spoken to and seen and not heard the perverts would still be going about there day. And crime was significantly higher in the medieval old days when religion ruled lives.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The problem is you keep exaggerating what I have said. I have said that a less secular/more religious country may improve things like crime and may lead to more people looking to build social relationships rather than relying too much on material aspects of life. I haven't said we would become 'happy chappy obedient drones' - they're your words.


Even in this present age, Sunday is still the day of the week of which people are off work the most, by a long way. Even from a non-religious perspective, it has long been seen traditionally as a day of rest, more so than any other day of the week.

Again though, you haven't provided any evidence that increased religiosity actually does produce a better outcome.
What do you do with people who simply aren't convinced of the truth of the Bible (or any other religious text)? Are we expected to "fake it 'til we make it"? If you believe that the Bible is the word of God(tm), it makes sense to follow it... but if you don't believe it, why would you?

I simply want to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible. If I'm not convinced that something is true, I simply won't act as if I am convinced just to appease some deity- such a deity would surely see that I was being insincere anyway.

 

[Butts]

The problem is you keep exaggerating what I have said. I have said that a less secular/more religious country may improve things like crime and may lead to more people looking to build social relationships rather than relying too much on material aspects of life. I haven't said we would become 'happy chappy obedient drones' - they're your words.


Even in this present age, Sunday is still the day of the week of which people are off work the most, by a long way. Even from a non-religious perspective, it has long been seen traditionally as a day of rest, more so than any other day of the week.

You are a brave man to come on here and defend your beliefs in the face of the multitude of heathens

Please don't mention you are a Tory (if you are) as combined with the religious fervour this will initiate total evisceration on an unimaginable level..

Incidentally I spent a lot of my earlier years in the Gaming Industry. You will be pleased to hear when I first worked for Top Rank in Edinburgh in 1979 no gaming was permitted before 7pm on a Sunday.

 

[Bantamzen]

On reflection of the responses in this thread, I would say my initial view was too extreme in terms of closing shops and hospitality and that these should remain as they are (6 hours for supermarkets). However, I stand by my view that there should be a government 'promotion' of Sunday being a day of rest and relaxation if possible, and also encouragement from the government for people to think about going to church, regardless of how strong or weak their faith is. Some people may develop or strengthen a faith by starting to attend Mass and other church services.

So you want the government to coerce people into following the religion of your choice? I'd say that will be much more damaging to people's wellbeing than being allowed to make their own choices in what they believe.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Essentially, in England & Wales, the majority of large shops (such as supermarkets - there are, however, some exemptions) can only trade for up to six hours continuously during the eight hour period between 10.00 a.m. and 6.00 p.m., this on a Sunday.

A "large" shop is deemed to be one with a floor area of more than 3000 sq. feet (= 280 sq. metres).

Some retail outlets allow a brief "browsing period" of maybe 30 minutes before the tills are open to take sales.

That should be changed
Still only six hours per shop, however the sphere of opening extended to 8am-8pm or even 8am-10pm
Then you'd be able to shop earlier or later at least somewhere in the local area.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So you want the government to coerce people into following the religion of your choice?

After the Reformation, this is exactly what happened in England.

 

[THC]

After the Reformation, this is exactly what happened in England.

And Ireland, through the imposition of the draconian Penal Laws: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Laws

THC

 

[Philip]

So you want the government to coerce people into following the religion of your choice? I'd say that will be much more damaging to people's wellbeing than being allowed to make their own choices in what they believe.

Encourage rather than coerce, it's a big difference.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==

You are a brave man to come on here and defend your beliefs in the face of the multitude of heathens

Please don't mention you are a Tory (if you are) as combined with the religious fervour this will initiate total evisceration on an unimaginable level..

Incidentally I spent a lot of my earlier years in the Gaming Industry. You will be pleased to hear when I first worked for Top Rank in Edinburgh in 1979 no gaming was permitted before 7pm on a Sunday.

Not Tory...

I feel sometimes people just want to follow the trend, and at the present time in the UK it isn't seen as 'cool' to be religious. I know this doesn't account for all non-religious folk and that others are sticking to their own beliefs rather than being influenced by trends and the media.

 

[najaB]

What do people think?

Surely it should be Saturday, no, since that's the Jewish Sabbath? Or Friday afternoon after Jahu'ma?

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely it should be Saturday, no, since that's the Jewish Sabbath? Or Friday afternoon after Jahu'ma?

perosnally I prefer Thursdays, as per the old book I have.
(that I made up).

 

[Mike395]

Encourage rather than coerce, it's a big difference.

But public encouragement of the type you're suggesting is likely to be seen as coercion, or at the very least making people like they don't belong as it'd likely be interpreted as 'if you don't have a faith, you're not matching with our country's preferred belief system'.

 

[najaB]

I'm not suggesting people should be forced to observe religion but as a Christian country

You keep saying that, but I do not think it means what you think it means...

What, precisely, does that phrase mean to you?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Encourage rather than coerce, it's a big difference.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==



Not Tory...

I feel sometimes people just want to follow the trend, and at the present time in the UK it isn't seen as 'cool' to be religious. I know this doesn't account for all non-religious folk and that others are sticking to their own beliefs rather than being influenced by trends and the media.

That's some broad strokes there. You seem to have a rather dim view of those who don't follow a religion: we're all just influenced by the media and don't think religion is "cool". Your little disclaimers about "not all non-religious folk" don't really hide the contempt I'm afraid.

 

[ComUtoR]

I feel sometimes people just want to follow the trend, and at the present time in the UK it isn't seen as 'cool' to be religious. I know this doesn't account for all non-religious folk and that others are sticking to their own beliefs rather than being influenced by trends and the media.

It isn't about being "cool". The younger people haven't become part of the church because it's unfriendly and unwelcoming.

The church has lost its way. They have clung unflinchingly to out dated beliefs and values and pushed people away rather than brought them into the flock.

The church of my youth was a vital part of the community. Families met and gathered together to celebrate their faith and help those in the community who needed it. The church was diverse and was a huge family.

Over time the church has slowly become more and more insular. The congregation has morphed into something that many find distasteful. The church, in essence, has become more about itself, than faith.

Even as a young adult, when family needed it, we turned to the church.
As an adult, when my own family came to the church they were shunned and pushed away because of who we were.

Do not look to those without faith, or those that don't worship the church. Look within and see how you can change it.

 

[Yew]

We are still a Christian country and Sunday is the day of observance in Christianity, so it makes sense to assign Sunday as the day of rest or religious observance for this reason.

Religion is a human construct to serve Faith in God. There is nothing artificial about it.

Personally I feel it's high time we returned to our religious roots, and throw of this newfangled cult of Jesus Christ, and start showing Jupiter the respect that the King of the Gods deserves.

Why wouldn't he be credible because of his divorce? Just to remind you (and many others who forget this) that the reason the CofE exists is because Henry VIII wanted to divorce Catherine of Aragon and the Pope had said no.

More recently, Edward VIII abdicated due to his desire to marry a divorcee.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==

Encourage rather than coerce, it's a big difference.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==

Then why should the Government not encourage other religions?

 

[Runningaround]

perosnally I prefer Thursdays, as per the old book I have.
(that I made up).

I'd go for Thursday or Monday as that's when their are less football games on. Reduced timetables on a Sunday make attending a right pain in harris to get to.

 

[dosxuk]

He also says in another text "Husbands, love your wives. Wives, love your husbands." He doesn't go on to make reference to gay couples. I know he isn't literally condemning homosexuality in these texts, but neither is he endorsing it.

Of course, he didn't say anything of the sort. Modern English was not spoken by anyone 2000 years ago. The words we have today are updated versions of translations of translations of recollections made a significant time after the events they record.

Nobody should pay attention to the words used in any religious text - they should listen to the message - the meaning behind the words is far more likely to be accurate to the original events.

Homosexuality was considered a sin in those days and homosexual sex was still treated as a crime well into 20th century Britain.

And it's those factors which will affect what the updates and translations contain - the social standards of the time when the text was reviewed will directly affect the choice of words and content that is included / updated / dropped. A modern update of the Bible would probably replace Husbands, love your wives. Wives, love your husbands. with something like Husbands, love your partners. Wives love your partners. - an update that would be acceptable to modern society and compatible with the wider message.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Personally I feel it's high time we returned to our religious roots, and throw of this newfangled cult of Jesus Christ, and start showing Jupiter the respect that the King of the Gods deserves.

Your mention of Jupiter only goes back to Roman empire times as a highly-worshipped deity. Prior to that, Zeus was a deity of the higher echelon in the Greek civilisation and even older than that was Brihaspati, in the beliefs of Hinduism.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2022 ==

If what is said on this thread about religion being outdated is true, why do Satanists still exist in the 21st century?

 

[najaB]

Of course, he didn't say anything of the sort. Modern English was not spoken by anyone 2000 years ago. The words we have today are updated versions of translations of translations of recollections made a significant time after the events they record.

Indeed. The words "the Bible says" should always be read as "the interpretation of my chosen version of the Bible says". There are numerous examples of where the "inerrant word of God"™ varies both between translations* - for example the NIV's story of creation differs significantly from the KJV/NKJV) and also between different chapters of the same bible.

For example, did Judas throw away his blood money and hang himself:

Matthew 27:5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

Or did he use the money to buy a field and then fall down and explode:

Acts 1:18 With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.

*On the subject of translations, why do they even exist? Surely an omnipotent God could simply create a single version of His book that would be understandable by all people?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

*On the subject of translations, why do they even exist? Surely an omnipotent God could simply create a single version of His book that would be understandable by all people?

Translations are something done by humans, not by any deity. In the late 1950's, I translated a whole chapter of "The Persian Expedition" by Xenophon from the Greek into English over a summer holiday period. It was our set book in Greek studies in the Classics stream at our college.

 

[najaB]

Translations are something done by humans, not by any deity. In the late 1950's, I translated a whole chapter of "The Persian Expedition" by Xenophon from the Greek into English over a summer holiday period. It was our set book in Greek studies in the Classics stream at our college.

So, if translations are done by humans, is it such a stretch to suppose that the original manuscript was also written by humans (even if they truly believed that they were being inspired by God)?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When in the witness box in Court, it is expected that an oath be sworn on the Bible (or similar sacred books). For what length of time has this been a part of the legal system in Britain.

Desecration of the Qu'ran is viewed as an offence of the highest type in the Islamic faith.