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Early pension and carry on working?

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Stench

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Hi there
I’m 52 and was thinking of taking my pension early and carry on working.
I’ve asked my hr dept and pension people and they say I can.
The thing is on rpmi website it says something different although the rpmi employee said I can take my pension early then rejoin then after 4 weeks be re enrolled start a new pension along with brass and get full death in service benefits again.
Anyone heard differently or know of another driver whose done this?
Regards
Dr
 
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Dieseldriver

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Hi there
I’m 52 and was thinking of taking my pension early and carry on working.
I’ve asked my hr dept and pension people and they say I can.
The thing is on rpmi website it says something different although the rpmi employee said I can take my pension early then rejoin then after 4 weeks be re enrolled start a new pension along with brass and get full death in service benefits again.
Anyone heard differently or know of another driver whose done this?
Regards
Dr
A question out of curiosity, why do you want to do this and what benefit does it bring to you?
 

Stench

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A question out of curiosity, why do you want to do this and what benefit does it bring to you?
Hi there
Firstly to see that it’s possible to use a lump some to go towards the purchase of a house instead of taking out a long mortgage.
Plus with the markets how they now are and with volatility in investments worldwide I’m watching at how this will affect my pension.
I don’t want my pension to be eaten away as it could be but as I said I’m just curious with figures at the moment and I may change my mind as I want to keep on working.
Regards
Dr
 

jfollows

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I presume you have a Protected Pension Age under the Railways Pension Scheme allowing you to take your benefits earlier than the Normal Minimum Pension Age. I found https://cdn.rpmi.co.uk/mp-sitefinit...rs/protected-pension-age.pdf?sfvrsn=81a239f_7 which may be useful if you haven't already seen it. I don't personally have any connection with the railway industry, I just happen to have started taking my own pension benefits from the age of 56 under completely different circumstances to you.
September 2021
Protected Pension Age
Please read this important information about Protected Pension Age. This guide covers:
  •  Background information
  •  What is a Protected Pension Age and how do I know if I have one?
  •  Can a Protected Pension Age be lost?
  •  Tax Consequences
  •  Opting out
    Background information
    You can take your benefits without them being reduced once you reach your Normal Retirement Age (NRA). In most pension Schemes including the Railways Pension Scheme (RPS) you can also request to take your benefits before your NRA with a reduction applied to your benefits as it will be paid earlier and therefore for longer.
    From 6 April 2010, government legislation under the Finance Act 2004 increased the earliest age from which reduced benefits could be taken, known as the Normal Minimum Pension Age (NMPA), to age 55 for members who joined their pension scheme on or after 6 April 2006.
    The legislation does allow members to take benefits from an earlier age (under 55) under certain circumstances, which are:
  • The member has a Protected Pension Age (PPA),
  • Ill-health retirement, or
  • Serious ill-health retirement.
    What is a Protected Pension Age and how do I know if I have one?
    You will have a PPA where you had an unqualified right to take your benefits from that age on 5 April 2006. An unqualified right to take benefits is where there is no need to obtain the consent of anybody before you can take your benefits.
    Under rules of the RPS, members have a right to take their benefits early if they do so immediately on leaving pensionable service and they are above NMPA.
    This means that if you were an active member in the RPS on the 5 April 2006 regardless of which employer you were working for then you will have a PPA and can apply for your benefits from age 50.
    Once you have a PPA in the RPS this cannot be lost or removed, other than in specific circumstances listed below, and applies to all periods of membership in the RPS.

Can a Protected Pension Age be lost?
There are a number of circumstances where a PPA may be lost, which could have serious tax consequences as a result, for details please read the ‘Tax Consequences’ section below.
In order to rely on a PPA, all your benefits within the Scheme must be taken at the same time. Therefore, if you rely on a PPA to take benefits before age 55 you have to take payment of all your benefits from any other Sections you may have in the RPS.
A PPA can be lost if after taking benefits you are employed by:
  •  The same employer;
  •  Another employer in the same corporate group; or
  •  Any sponsoring employer with which you are connected*.
    *Connected persons are defined in Section s993 of Income Tax Act 2007 and include spouses or civil partners, relatives, spouses or civil
    partners of relatives and companies controlled by either you alone or with another connected person.
    This means that if you are rely on a PPA in order to take payment of your benefits in the RPS before 55 you must cease all employment with any of the above employers at the time you take your benefits. If you remain in employment with these employers, you will lose your PPA and you could face an ‘unauthorised payment’ tax charge.
    If you leave work and claim your benefits having relied upon a PPA to do so and return to employment with any of the employers listed above, then your PPA is lost from the date you are re-employed unless you meet one of the following conditions:
  •  A break in employment of at least six months
  •  A break in employment of at least one month and the re-employment is materially different in
    nature to your previous role.
    In practice this means that if you are not employed by any of the employers mentioned above or there is a break in employment of at least six months you will not lose your PPA.
    If you are employed by an employer mentioned above then there has to be a break in employment of at least one month or six months if the role is not materially different.
    HMRC’s tax guidance states that for employment to be a materially different a simple change in hours is not sufficient but rather the duties and/or the level of responsibility in the new employment must be different from those in the old employment.
    Once you reach the NMPA (age 55), the above conditions no longer apply so the following tax consequences will not apply regardless of any subsequent employment.
    The right to a PPA obtained whilst a member in the RPS will generally no longer apply if you transfer your pension benefits in the RPS to another pension provider.


Tax Consequences
If you rely on a PPA in order to take payment of your benefits before age 55 and you lose or subsequently lose the right to a PPA then every payment (pension and lump sum) made from the scheme before you reach age 55 will be treated as an unauthorised payment.
The tax on unauthorised payments can be as high as 55%.
Opting Out
Generally, if you voluntarily end your pensionable service in the RPS by opting out, the Rules state the earliest age you are able to take payment of your benefits is age 55 regardless of whether you have a PPA or not.
If you came to a special agreement with your employer prior to opting out it may still be possible to take your benefits before age 55.
Disclaimer
The information provided in this leaflet is intended for general information and illustrative purposes. It does not constitute investment or any other advice, and it is not intended to be a substitute for information and statements provided by Railpen Limited (Railpen). It should not be relied on to make investment or other decisions. Railpen gives no warranty and accepts no responsibility for the accuracy of any information provided, or for your reliance on that information. Your benefits will be worked out in accordance with and subject to the governing trust deed and rules.
Although every effort has been made to ensure that the information given in this leaflet is accurate, none of the information given can give you legal rights to benefits that differ from those provided in the pension trust and rules.
Helpline: Website address: Last reviewed:
0800 012 1117 www.railwayspensions.co.uk November 2019
We recommend that you get independent financial advice before making any important decisions about your pensions arrangements.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Can you actually take a pension at lower than age 55 without paying a bunch of income tax on it, unless the retiree is doing so for ill health reasons, which doesn't seem to be the case in this particular scenario?
 

Watershed

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Can you actually take a pension at lower than age 55 without paying a bunch of income tax on it, unless the retiree is doing so for ill health reasons, which doesn't seem to be the case in this particular scenario?
If you joined your pension scheme before the increase in the minimum pension age to age 55 took effect, you are "grandfathered" in and can take your pension from age 50. Similarly with people who are members of a pension scheme with a minimum pension age of 55 today, they will be grandfathered in for when the minimum increases to 57.

The early retirement factors for rail staff with "protected" status under the Railways Act 1993 are very attractive, costing just 2% per year that you take your pension, before the Normal Retirement Age of 60.

The OP may benefit from signing up to the Facebook group UK Railway Pensions, which has some veritable subject experts (including the Head of NR pensions) answering questions. The answer will very often depend on which TOC they work for as well as when exactly they joined the railway.
 

Dai Corner

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Can you actually take a pension at lower than age 55 without paying a bunch of income tax on it, unless the retiree is doing so for ill health reasons, which doesn't seem to be the case in this particular scenario?
The pension will always be taxable. The situation with any cash lump sum is somewhat complicated.

Plus with the markets how they now are and with volatility in investments worldwide I’m watching at how this will affect my pension.


If the scheme is a 'defined benefit' (sometimes called final salary) one the investment risk lies with the employer. If there's not enough in the fund they have to make up the difference.
 

JonathanH

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If the scheme is a 'defined benefit' (sometimes called final salary) one the investment risk lies with the employer. If there's not enough in the fund they have to make up the difference.
The Railways Pension Scheme is a 'Shared Cost' scheme. For so long as it remains tenable, particularly in those Sections which still admit new members, the members have to make good their share of any shortfall. Therefore, while the benefits are defined, members do effectively bear part of the investment risk when it comes to contributions.
 

Watershed

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The Railways Pension Scheme is a 'Shared Cost' scheme. For so long as it remains tenable, particularly in those Sections which still admit new members, the members have to make good their share of any shortfall. Therefore, while the benefits are defined, members do effectively bear part of the investment risk when it comes to contributions.
That is the case for almost all DB schemes. The level of contributions can go up or down, that's life.
 

Dai Corner

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The Railways Pension Scheme is a 'Shared Cost' scheme. For so long as it remains tenable, particularly in those Sections which still admit new members, the members have to make good their share of any shortfall. Therefore, while the benefits are defined, members do effectively bear part of the investment risk when it comes to contributions.

That is the case for almost all DB schemes. The level of contributions can go up or down, that's life.

Fair comment, though I was responding to the OP saying
Plus with the markets how they now are and with volatility in investments worldwide I’m watching at how this will affect my pension.
Return on the scheme's investments and other factors such as longevity of pensioners won't affect his/her pension but may affect how much he/she and other members have to contribute.
 

PupCuff

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Volatility of investments may, of course, affect the OP's BRASS/BRASS2 AVCs though (if they make AVCs). These sit in an invested pot which then forms all or part of the pension lump sum. If they have been in the scheme for some time the BRASS pot could be considerable.

Probably worth discussing with a financial advisor if not done already.
 

Watershed

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Volatility of investments may, of course, affect the OP's BRASS/BRASS2 AVCs though (if they make AVCs). These sit in an invested pot which then forms all or part of the pension lump sum. If they have been in the scheme for some time the BRASS pot could be considerable.

Probably worth discussing with a financial advisor if not done already.
Which is highly relevant seeing as you have to take all of your pension at once, you can't take the DB pension first and then the BRASS lump sum later.
 

Stench

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Dear all
I’ve asked rpmi on two occasions and my pension is protected.
I can take if from 50. I will carry on working and go back into brass to offset some of the tax that I will be paying more on the extra monthly pension/income.
Yes I loose 2% a year before 62 but I’ve lost an amount already due to volatility so far.
Brass can go up or down as it has done a few times so far of which I’m not concerned.
The lump sum max is25% of the whole pot and I’ve talked to hmrc and they were very helpful and before anything is agreed in stone the figures will be sent off for scrutiny.
Hmrc explained to off set against the 40% on the monthly pension payments I could get a20% reduction on this by way of paying into an external scheme and sending of proof to them.
A few already have taken their pensions early for personal reasons and the outlook of the future uk economy which adds to their decision.
I may leave it where it is if the sums don’t work but so far they look ok and suit me.
Just was curious if any other have pursued this route?
Regards
Rc
 

Efini92

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If you take it before 55 don’t you have to leave your job?
We have someone doing it at our place and I’m sure he said he has to leave for a set period before he can come back.
 

jfollows

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If you take it before 55 don’t you have to leave your job?
We have someone doing it at our place and I’m sure he said he has to leave for a set period before he can come back.
I think my post #4 has some information on this.
1 month gap if re-employment is "materially different in nature to your previous role" otherwise 6 months, if not there are nasty tax impiications.
 
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Efini92

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I think my post #4 has some information on this.
1 month gap if re-employment is "materially different in nature to your previous role" otherwise 6 months, if not there are nasty tax impiications.
Sorry I missed that part
 

Horizon22

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This is really the sort of question that can only be answered by a qualified financial advisor.

Whilst well-intentioned users can give suggestions and their own experience, there is a limit to the assistance we can give.
 

74A

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If you take your pension before 55 you can't stay in the same job. Have to get a job somewhere else. (It could be the same as what you are doing know but with a different employer)
 
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