Sundays - back to the traditional?

[Philip]

We should not be encouraging religious observance in any way. Religion is the biggest scam ever committed on the human race.

Religion is simply an institution or church of faith and faith is part of life, some would say it is the making of life. It is humans who abuse the religion and cause what you describe as 'scam' elements, but then that goes for all big institutions.

You may not think much about encouraging religious observance (as in attending Mass, Services, the Mosque, the Temple), but there are many people who benefit greatly from it and encouraging more people to deepen their faith and practise it will help many more.

 

[duncombec]

I have experienced this a decade or so go living in Germany, two sessions of 9-10 months at a time.

When I first moved over and we had a nice autumn, yes, having Sundays where you were rather more restricted in what you could get up to was nice. It was a day to catch up, pause, not feel obliged to go shopping, etc. But come November and December, when it was dark at 4pm, raining, damp... it soon lost the novelty value, and I found myself thinking "if only I could do my shopping today". My landlady told me in that part of Germany, they nickname November "misery month", because it gets colder, darker, there are the two 'remembering the dead' Sundays and Christmas markets haven't really got underway yet.

So, having experienced it at an older age - early 20s - that I didn't remember here (being of single-digit age in 1994), I'd say no thanks, let's keep things as they are.

 

[43096]

Religion is simply an institution or church of faith and faith is part of life, some would say it is the making of life. It is humans who abuse the religion and cause what you describe as 'scam' elements, but then that goes for all big institutions.

It is humans that have created religion; it is an artificial construct. And, back to the original point of this thread, why should those people who have no interest in religion, or who are in different religions that have other days as their day of rest, have to have their Sundays mandated as this day they can't do things as they can the rest of the week?

 

[Philip]

It is humans that have created religion; it is an artificial construct. And, back to the original point of this thread, why should those people who have no interest in religion, or who are in different religions that have other days as their day of rest, have to have their Sundays mandated as this day they can't do things as they can the rest of the week?

We are still a Christian country and Sunday is the day of observance in Christianity, so it makes sense to assign Sunday as the day of rest or religious observance for this reason.

Religion is a human construct to serve Faith in God. There is nothing artificial about it.

 

[ComUtoR]

In terms of the advantages, making it a 'day of rest' as it was before (with only people employed in emergency services, small convenience stores and transport going to work) would surely increase the quality of life for a lot people and subsequently should improve many people's mental health.

What do people think?

I think by excluding Transport workers, convenience stores, it shows how selective your views on mental health and things like religion are. Are those workers also not allowed time off to spend time with their families ? How will my children's mental health be if they cant' spend their Sunday with their parent ?

 

[alxndr]

Religion is simply an institution or church of faith and faith is part of life, some would say it is the making of life. It is humans who abuse the religion and cause what you describe as 'scam' elements, but then that goes for all big institutions.

You may not think much about encouraging religious observance (as in attending Mass, Services, the Mosque, the Temple), but there are many people who benefit greatly from it and encouraging more people to deepen their faith and practise it will help many more.

A lot of people don’t have a faith to deepen, and that’s fine. It’s not a requirement for a content, fruitful and kind life.

 

[LowLevel]

We are still a Christian country and Sunday is the day of observance in Christianity, so it makes sense to assign Sunday as the day of rest or religious observance for this reason.

Religion is a human construct to serve Faith in God. There is nothing artificial about it.

You can keep it and enjoy it

 

[Ediswan]

Religion is a human construct to serve Faith in God. There is nothing artificial about it.

My view is that god is a human construct.

 

[ainsworth74]

Religion is a human construct to serve Faith in God. There is nothing artificial about it.

Why God? Why not Odin? Or Jupiter? I can accept that humans, especially primative humans, have some innate attraction to believing in a higher power but its quite clear that those powers that coalesce into an organised religion and/or belief system are artifical. They were all created by humans. All of them.

We are still a Christian country and Sunday is the day of observance in Christianity, so it makes sense to assign Sunday as the day of rest or religious observance for this reason.

We're also a free country. You're welcome to worship in whatever way and whenever you wish to. But that's it. Some insidious attempt to promote your favoured religion by insisting on setting aside a day for "religious observance" has no place in a modern society.

Especially one where the majority have no religious belief.

 

[Philip]

I think by excluding Transport workers, convenience stores, it shows how selective your views on mental health and things like religion are. Are those workers also not allowed time off to spend time with their families ? How will my children's mental health be if they cant' spend their Sunday with their parent ?

No need to be pedantic about it, obviously those workers will have time off in the form of rest days, but as essential services they have to be open or operating 7 days a week.
There are, for example, too many shops opening on Sunday now and what was once a day to relax, keep observances, spend time with the family, visit nature and exercise has become an overcrowded and chaotic day with people flocking to the shops and causing trains and roads to be very congested.

 

[stevetay3]

Good heavens most people would think the world had ended if the shops had to close for a day. Panic buying on Thursday & Friday nothing left on Saturday , look what happens two days before Christmas.

 

[Philip]

We're also a free country. You're welcome to worship in whatever way and whenever you wish to. But that's it. Some insidious attempt to promote your favoured religion by insisting on setting aside a day for "religious observance" has no place in a modern society.

Especially one where the majority have no religious belief.

For a start we're not a 'free' country and that kind of attitude is responsible for a lot of the modern societal problems we face today..."my rights", "I can do what I like" and all that.

 

[LowLevel]

No need to be pedantic about it, obviously those workers will have time off in the form of rest days, but as essential services they have to be open or operating 7 days a week.
There are, for example, too many shops opening on Sunday now and what was once a day to relax, keep observances, spend time with the family, visit nature and exercise has become an overcrowded and chaotic day with people flocking to the shops and causing trains and roads to be very congested.

Perhaps that is how people enjoy spending their free time. You can spend time with the family by visiting the shops and going for a meal.

Suggesting that leisure activities are what are stressing them out when they could be worshipping the Good Lord they don't believe in is more than a little silly.

You're entitled to do what you wish with your Sundays, as is everybody else. Trying to dictate what people do is a major reason religion dropped in importance.

 

[ainsworth74]

For a start we're not a 'free' country

Well yes you're not free to impose your religious views on other people that's certainly true.

and that kind of attitude is responsible for a lot of the modern societal problems we face today..."my rights", "I can do what I like" and all that.

Rights for me but not for thee I take it? You have the right to insist that Sunday should be kept special so you can have your religious services (which happen anyway) and can try to make more people go to them (despite a majority of people not being religious) but if I suggest that such a thing has no place in society today then I have a "problematic attitude". How convenient for you.

 

[Philip]

Well yes you're not free to impose your religious views on other people that's certainly true.

Rights for me but not for thee I take it? You have the right to insist that Sunday should be kept special so you can have your religious services (which happen anyway) and can try to make more people go to them (despite a majority of people not being religious) but if I suggest that such a thing has no place in society today then I have a "problematic attitude". How convenient for you.

Religious observance is one aspect of it and one which should be encouraged in my opinion for the reasons I've stated; it is yourselves who are saying they're being forced on people...encouraging is not forcing. I could argue that some people are not free to force their atheistic views on others too...

But on a more general note, people clearly thought up to the 1990s that Sunday should be a day to slow down, take a step back and to help with this most retail closed down for the day. They obviously had strong feelings about it as it was like that for so long, so why can't it be like this now? Phrases like 'modern society', 'it's 2022' are just meaningless clichés.

 

[XAM2175]

Nope. Don't care about religion; don't want religion.

In fact, back when I worked a seven-day roster, I used to volunteer for Sundays because I could get Monday or Tuesday off in lieu.

But on a more general note, people clearly thought up to the 1990s that Sunday should be a day to slow down, take a step back and to help this for most retail to not open.

Did they? Or did it just take that long for trading laws to catch up with a much-earlier swing in public opinion?

... spend time with the family ...

My family all live circa ten thousand miles away. Will there be state support for me to travel this distance and back every single Sunday, since family is clearly so important in this hypothetical theocratic Britain?

 

[ainsworth74]

Religious observance is one aspect of it and one which should be encouraged in my opinion for the reasons I've stated; it is yourselves who are saying they're being forced on people...encouraging is not forcing.

"Encouraing" by legally mandating that private businesses cannot open which is what it would take as I can't see how else you'd manage it. Doesn't scream "unforced".

I could argue that some people are not free to force their atheistic views on others too...

Whose forcing their atheistic views on you? Are you unable to worship as you wish? Is your church forced to close? Do you have to worship in secret? Or is it simply you don't like that most people aren't religious?

But on a more general note, people clearly thought up to the 1990s that Sunday should be a day to slow down, take a step back and to help with this most retail closed down for the day. They obviously had strong feelings about it as it was like that for so long, so why can't it be like this now?

In what way are you being prevented from "slowing down"? It sounds like everything you want to do on Sunday you can. Why can't I do what I want to do on Sunday? Or anyone else? Why is your view of what Sunday should be about more valid, to the point of requiring state intervention, than mine?

 

[GusB]

Religious observance is one aspect of it and one which should be encouraged in my opinion for the reasons I've stated; it is yourselves who are saying they're being forced on people...encouraging is not forcing. I could argue that some people are not free to force their atheistic views on others too...

But on a more general note, people clearly thought up to the 1990s that Sunday should be a day to slow down, take a step back and to help with this most retail closed down for the day. They obviously had strong feelings about it as it was like that for so long, so why can't it be like this now? Phrases like 'modern society', 'it's 2022' are just meaningless clichés.

Encouraging is not forcing? That's the start of a slippery slope. Nobody is forced to do anything, until such time that it becomes frowned upon not to do the thing you're "encouraging". Then it becomes taboo, then illegal etc.

 

[ComUtoR]

No need to be pedantic about it,

It isn't being pedantic. You are clearly saying that one portion of society can observe their faith on Sunday but others cannot. Are those who then work on a Sunday, less religious because they don't go to church on a Sunday ?

obviously those workers will have time off in the form of rest days,

So we can close the railway on a Monday then ?

but as essential services they have to be open or operating 7 days a week.

Isn't that rather selfish ? Why are you allowed to celebrate your religion with your family on the day of observance but I can't ? If you are happy for me to observe my faith on a Monday, then why can't you do the same ?

There are, for example, too many shops opening on Sunday now and what was once a day to relax, keep observances, spend time with the family, visit nature and exercise has become an overcrowded and chaotic day with people flocking to the shops and causing trains and roads to be very congested.

If everything is closed; why do you need to use transport ?


If you are observing your faith only on a Sunday or treating it as a specific day of worship and time for family, you're doing it wrong :/


Colossians 2:16

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

 

[AlterEgo]

What I'm saying is that with more people having to work on Sundays and with more shops and events 'open', people who previously attended worship regularly on Sundays are finding less time to do so now, so this will inevitably mean reduced numbers in congregations and unfortunately some people who stop practising their faith then find they begin to lose their faith altogether or that it weakens to agnostic level (again not everyone).

So what?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2022 ==

Religion is simply an institution or church of faith and faith is part of life, some would say it is the making of life. It is humans who abuse the religion and cause what you describe as 'scam' elements, but then that goes for all big institutions.

You may not think much about encouraging religious observance (as in attending Mass, Services, the Mosque, the Temple), but there are many people who benefit greatly from it and encouraging more people to deepen their faith and practise it will help many more.

Why are a Orthodox Jews so devout when everything is so busy and open on a Saturday?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2022 ==

But on a more general note, people clearly thought up to the 1990s that Sunday should be a day to slow down, take a step back and to help with this most retail closed down for the day. They obviously had strong feelings about it as it was like that for so long, so why can't it be like this now? Phrases like 'modern society', 'it's 2022' are just meaningless clichés.

Here’s a deal. How about you worship Jesus Christ on a Sunday in line with your faith, and observe the sabbath, and I don’t, because that’s not my religion?

I don’t see why I should have to sit indoors with the Sunday paper and a roast every weekend so borderline Christians aren’t distracted from remembering to go to church.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps it's just churches in my area but they all tend to have services during the week. Mornings, afternoons, evenings are all catered for. Not being able to get to Church on Sunday is hardly an excuse for failing in your faith. Unless you weren't really religious at all...

Indeed so, as in the Catholic tradition, the Saturday evening service is now an accepted traditional service.

 

[alxndr]

No need to be pedantic about it, obviously those workers will have time off in the form of rest days, but as essential services they have to be open or operating 7 days a week.
There are, for example, too many shops opening on Sunday now and what was once a day to relax, keep observances, spend time with the family, visit nature and exercise has become an overcrowded and chaotic day with people flocking to the shops and causing trains and roads to be very congested.

Scotland doesn’t have Sunday trading laws and yet it’s fine. Religious update isn’t too much different across the borders either for that matter.

In fact, the lack of Sunday trading restrictions is one of the things I’ve enjoyed since moving up here (my partner and I even made a trip to ASDA on a Sunday evening purely for the novelty of it). The shops are less horrifically busy, as people aren’t all trying to get their shopping done in the same small window as in England, and I don’t have to rush about or go without if I wake up after a night shift and realise I need to get something from a shop. My life has improved with less restricted Sundays.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Scotland doesn’t have Sunday trading laws and yet it’s fine. Religious update isn’t too much different across the borders either for that matter.

In fact, the lack of Sunday trading restrictions is one of the things I’ve enjoyed since moving up here (my partner and I even made a trip to ASDA on a Sunday evening for the novelty of it). The shops are less horrifically busy, as people aren’t all trying to get their shopping done in the same small window as in England, and I don’t have to rush about or go without if I wake up after a night shift and realise I need to get something from a shop. My life has improved with less restricted Sundays.

Is it not the case that Scotland once had very strict Sunday observance traditions and in some coastal areas, fish were not allowed to be landed from trawlers on Sundays?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is it not the case that Scotland once had very strict Sunday observance traditions and in some coastal areas, fish were not allowed to be landed from trawlers on Sundays?

Believe so, this was particularly prevalent in the Western Isles, in places such as Harris and Lewis. Until fairly recently, there were no ferries operating up there on a Sunday and hardly anywhere open for business or trading.

 

[dk1]

I personally detest Sundays & have done as long as I can remember. I would be more than happy for them to become more like any other day of the week.

 

[davews]

As a church person I tend not to shop on Sundays and the odd time I have for emergency purchases found the shops unpleasantly busy. I cannot see the old system returning but can certainly manage without availing myself of them.

 

[Philip]

I'm not suggesting people should be forced to observe religion but as a Christian country I don't think we should be looking to make Sunday more and more like a normal working day, not just from a religious point of view but because it used to be a day people could relax and it is becoming less and less like this. It is a slightly sensitive issue for me because I work in an industry which is rumoured to be threatening to make Sunday working compulsory - and I think this is wrong. We should not be heading towards a more secular society, rather we should be taking steps to return to our Christian routes; individuals should be left to make their own choice, but as a country we should be taking steps to promote worship rather than diminish it - and setting Sunday aside may help with this.

It isn't being pedantic. You are clearly saying that one portion of society can observe their faith on Sunday but others cannot. Are those who then work on a Sunday, less religious because they don't go to church on a Sunday ?



So we can close the railway on a Monday then ?




Isn't that rather selfish ? Why are you allowed to celebrate your religion with your family on the day of observance but I can't ? If you are happy for me to observe my faith on a Monday, then why can't you do the same ?




If everything is closed; why do you need to use transport ?


If you are observing your faith only on a Sunday or treating it as a specific day of worship and time for family, you're doing it wrong :/


Colossians 2:16

Most Catholic churches stagger their Mass times across a particular area or region so that people have the opportunity to attend Mass on either Saturday evening, Sunday morning or Sunday evening. Whilst I understand there will be occasions when even this isn't enough for people who are having to work, it is usually enough to allow everyone the opportunity to attend Mass at some point over the weekend.

People who join the emergency services or the NHS for example know full well that they have to work Sundays at times, but perhaps even this could be helped by having more essential roles removing Sunday from their working week and instead making it optional with overtime - I'm sure there'll be no shortage of people who would offer to work with good overtime rates.

 

[43096]

No need to be pedantic about it, obviously those workers will have time off in the form of rest days, but as essential services they have to be open or operating 7 days a week.
There are, for example, too many shops opening on Sunday now and what was once a day to relax, keep observances, spend time with the family, visit nature and exercise has become an overcrowded and chaotic day with people flocking to the shops and causing trains and roads to be very congested.

No-one is forcing you to go to the shops rather than worshipping whichever imaginary sky fairy you believe in. You need to accept that others have different beliefs - I thought they preached to you about tolerance when you went to worship?

 

[Typhoon]

I think by excluding Transport workers, convenience stores, it shows how selective your views on mental health and things like religion are. Are those workers also not allowed time off to spend time with their families ? How will my children's mental health be if they cant' spend their Sunday with their parent ?

I suppose you could argue that convenience stores should be forced to shut but mega-supermarkets allowed to open in that the latter will almost certainly employ enough people who do not have a christian religion, or children or other dependent relatives living at home, who would willingly volunteer to work on a Sunday to escape the dull and dreary Sunday that would be imposed on us all while earning some cash.

Also, in keeping with the Forum this is on, I assume that it will be OK to have repairs to the network during the week? That will encourage passengers back to rail!

As a church person I tend not to shop on Sundays and the odd time I have for emergency purchases found the shops unpleasantly busy. I cannot see the old system returning but can certainly manage without availing myself of them.

A sensible approach, thank you. Tip: don't shop on a Sunday afternoon, it is full of people like me buying 'yellow ticket' items!

 

[duncanp]

As a church person I tend not to shop on Sundays and the odd time I have for emergency purchases found the shops unpleasantly busy. I cannot see the old system returning but can certainly manage without availing myself of them.

As another "church person" I agree with this approach.

I have used the shops on Sundays, and I sometimes go to the pub or use public transport on a Sunday, so it would be hypocritical and virtue signalling to say "..you shouldn't work on Sundays.." whilst quite happily expecting others to do so.

In any case, faith is about how you live your life 24 hours a day 7 days a week, not what you should or shouldn't do on on particular day of the week.

Having Sundays with shops and entertainment closed, and little if no public transport running, sounds almost like a mini lockdown, and we now know how bad that can be for people's mental health. I would not want the Lord's day to be associated with an increase in loneliness or mental health problems, so we should keep Sundays as they are and let people decide how to live their lives.

Having said that, work life balance is important, but it is up to each individual as to how they acheive that, recognising that not everyone has the choice. If attending a place of worship on a particular day of the week or spending Sunday at home with your family is important to you, you should choose a job that allows you to do that. (I know this is easier said than done for some people)