Elizabeth Line - doubling back via Woolwich

[JWK]

Yesterday I made a Charlton - Acton Main Line journey, travelling on Southeastern Charlton-Woolwich Arsenal, then walking over to Woolwich station to take the Elizabeth Line to Paddington. I hold a zone 1-3 Travelcard on Oyster, which would fully cover me for a Charlton-Acton journey heading directly into central London. However, both Woolwich stations are in zone 4 and you obviously have to pass through gatelines at both.
I therefore expected to be charged on PAYG for the trip into zone 4, and sure enough, £2.60 was debited from the card.

However, when I used my Oyster for a journey today, I received an automated refund for £2.60 - the journey via Woolwich was the only PAYG journey I’d made in the past week, so it seems like it must have been a refund for that. Is there some kind of easement for doubling back via zone 4 for journeys like this?

Of course, ironically, if I make the same journey but travel via Abbey Wood (as the National Rail planner often suggests), I don’t pass through any gatelines and am therefore not charged anything extra anyway…

 

[Watershed]

Yesterday I made a Charlton - Acton Main Line journey, travelling on Southeastern Charlton-Woolwich Arsenal, then walking over to Woolwich station to take the Elizabeth Line to Paddington. I hold a zone 1-3 Travelcard on Oyster, which would fully cover me for a Charlton-Acton journey heading directly into central London. However, both Woolwich stations are in zone 4 and you obviously have to pass through gatelines at both.
I therefore expected to be charged on PAYG for the trip into zone 4, and sure enough, £2.60 was debited from the card.

However, when I used my Oyster for a journey today, I received an automated refund for £2.60 - the journey via Woolwich was the only PAYG journey I’d made in the past week, so it seems like it must have been a refund for that. Is there some kind of easement for doubling back via zone 4 for journeys like this?

Of course, ironically, if I make the same journey but travel via Abbey Wood (as the National Rail planner often suggests), I don’t pass through any gatelines and am therefore not charged anything extra anyway…

There are quite a few journeys where making an OSI and continuing your journey makes it cheaper. I think this is one such example.

The fact that your OSI shows you went via Woolwich and hence via Zone 4 is immaterial - it joined up your two journeys to make it Charlton-AML, which is charged as a Zone 1-3 journey, and hence covered by your Travelcard.

The Oyster 'front end' has limitations which means it cannot immediately refund you if extending your journey makes it cheaper (or free as in this case). However, the 'back end' looks at all journeys made and analyses them to see if any refunds are due. If so, it stores them for the next time you touch in from the following day onwards. This 'back end' processing was introduced with the advent of weekly capping.

Obviously going via Abbey Wood would mean you wouldn't be charged extra in the first place, but it looks like you have discovered one of several 'loopholes' in the system. Realistically TfL may at some point introduce a more expensive specifically routed fare via Woolwich, at which point this trick will cease to work. But for now, enjoy it!

 

[JWK]

There are quite a few journeys where making an OSI and continuing your journey makes it cheaper. I think this is one such example.

The fact that your OSI shows you went via Woolwich and hence via Zone 4 is immaterial - it joined up your two journeys to make it Charlton-AML, which is charged as a Zone 1-3 journey, and hence covered by your Travelcard.

The Oyster 'front end' has limitations which means it cannot immediately refund you if extending your journey makes it cheaper (or free as in this case). However, the 'back end' looks at all journeys made and analyses them to see if any refunds are due. If so, it stores them for the next time you touch in from the following day onwards. This 'back end' processing was introduced with the advent of weekly capping.

Obviously going via Abbey Wood would mean you wouldn't be charged extra in the first place, but it looks like you have discovered one of several 'loopholes' in the system. Realistically TfL may at some point introduce a more expensive specifically routed fare via Woolwich, at which point this trick will cease to work. But for now, enjoy it!

Super, many thanks. It’s useful for me at least once a week, so I will keep on doing so and not be too surprised when my luck runs out…

 

[hkstudent]

There are quite a few journeys where making an OSI and continuing your journey makes it cheaper. I think this is one such example.

The fact that your OSI shows you went via Woolwich and hence via Zone 4 is immaterial - it joined up your two journeys to make it Charlton-AML, which is charged as a Zone 1-3 journey, and hence covered by your Travelcard.

The Oyster 'front end' has limitations which means it cannot immediately refund you if extending your journey makes it cheaper (or free as in this case). However, the 'back end' looks at all journeys made and analyses them to see if any refunds are due. If so, it stores them for the next time you touch in from the following day onwards. This 'back end' processing was introduced with the advent of weekly capping.

Obviously going via Abbey Wood would mean you wouldn't be charged extra in the first place, but it looks like you have discovered one of several 'loopholes' in the system. Realistically TfL may at some point introduce a more expensive specifically routed fare via Woolwich, at which point this trick will cease to work. But for now, enjoy it!

I think currently stations west of Abbey Wood on Southeastern are set default to be via Southeastern in zone 1.
Same case of DLR stations south of Canning Town and Canary Wharf, to travel from Woolwich EL or Abbey Wood are treated via Southeastern. Seems that there are some fare allocation bugs there.

 

[MikeWh]

Super, many thanks. It’s useful for me at least once a week, so I will keep on doing so and not be too surprised when my luck runs out…

I doubt it will run out any time soon. They could specify a route via Woolwich, but all that would happen is people would go via Abbey Wood.

 

[hkstudent]

I doubt it will run out any time soon. They could specify a route via Woolwich, but all that would happen is people would go via Abbey Wood.

Yeah, and for via Abbey Wood problem, that would involve the issue of fare allocation with Southeastern, which Southeastern will likely insist they are the primary transporter of the area, and thus no via DLR (Greenwich) / Elizabeth Line fare can be set to undercut their revenue share.

Pretty the same case to the no avoid London Terminal fares for Southeastern Metroland to West London via Clapham Junction and Shepherd's Bush / Stratford and North London Line.

 

[2192]

There are quite a few journeys where making an OSI and continuing your journey makes it cheaper. I think this is one such example.

The fact that your OSI shows you went via Woolwich and hence via Zone 4 is immaterial -

What's an OSI?

 

[mmh]

What's an OSI?

Out of station interchange. There are station pairs where exiting one and entering another is considered to be part of the same single journey, within a time limit. Also used for some stations with multiple gatelines where you have to "exit" to interchange.