Thameslink Core and Network Rail

[Surreytraveller]

You are making assumption only services to London matter. There are also many local journeys that need to be encouraged.



Probably not, the original timetable was planned with Bedfords diverting to Reigate assuming completion of the now stalled/abandoned Platform 3 works.

However most Crawley Thameslink traffic gets on the train at Three Bridges (which is actually in Crawley) and there are much faster London Bridge service options than the Peterborough service. Horsham you can always get Arun Valley train and change for faster at East Croydon cross platform.

Well, you say there's faster London Bridge trains, but the train from Horsham still gets to East Croydon about five minutes before the next fast one if people had got off at Three Bridges to wait

 

[Minstral25]

Well, you say there's faster London Bridge trains, but the train from Horsham still gets to East Croydon about five minutes before the next fast one if people had got off at Three Bridges to wait

From Three Bridges? 6 trains per hour to Thameslink no need to change.

I was suggesting most Crawley passengers for Thameslink select Three Bridges station not Crawley Station

 

[JonathanH]

You are making assumption only services to London matter. There are also many local journeys that need to be encouraged.

Not only London. Purley, Crawley and Horsham all get (marginally) quicker journeys to Redhill because of the skip stopping.

I was suggesting most Crawley passengers for Thameslink select Three Bridges station not Crawley Station

Presumably most Earlswood passengers would select Redhill (or Horley select Gatwick) if their services to East Croydon and London were slowed down by only being stoppers.

For what it is worth I don't think there necessarily is a right answer. The skip-stop thing has been worth trying because it is an inescapable fact that there are more longer distance (eg Croydon / London / Gatwick) than shorter distance journeys on the corridor through Redhill and most of the short distance ones that matter most (ie into Redhill) are still catered for.

 

[Minstral25]

Not only London. Purley, Crawley and Horsham all get (marginally) quicker journeys to Redhill because of the skip stopping.


Presumably most Earlswood passengers would select Redhill (or Horley select Gatwick) if their services to East Croydon and London were slowed down by only being stoppers.

For what it is worth I don't think there necessarily is a right answer. The skip-stop thing has been worth trying because it is an inescapable fact that there are more longer distance (eg Croydon / London / Gatwick) than shorter distance journeys on the corridor through Redhill and most of the short distance ones that matter most (ie into Redhill) are still catered for.

But Crawley and Horsham have no direct services to Purley, Earlswood and Salfords. There is no direct services from Coulsdon South to Salfords etc.

With the Bedford to Gatwick service only running 60% of time the current skip stopping pattern is a failure. There are more peak time London needs than local but it evens out off peak.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

but the 9R is on minimum headway benhind the 9V. The latter loses 3 minutes, which means the 9R loses 3 minutes before it has even got to the affected section. It loses another 3 minutes, making it 6 minutes late, which makes the 9P following late, and so on.

Hence something has to come out to make it work and keep broadly to time. It’s all been tested desktop in the contingency planning that was done by one of the excellent TBROC controllers.

That would have created aggregated delays across all services on every half hour cycle but looking at RTT to this wasn't happening if anything having the 9J calling additionally at Salfords/Earlswood was causing late presentation at BFR and then they delayed subsequent following services. the beauty of the POSA's is the drivers don't need to get hold of the signaller to keep things moving so hope they get fitted to other critical areas.

Anyhow the S&T teams got it sorted overnight and my journey up today was a delight.

Annoying though it is when the 9R's are removed as long as the 9J's are quickly switched to covering Earlswood and Salfords most passengers will be accepting of the situation. The last few weeks of disruption have seen that happen but previous to this its been very random as to what happens at these two stations so hopefully this is now the contingency plan in future.

 

[Bald Rick]

Anyhow the S&T teams got it sorted overnight

temporarily…

 

[Bikeman78]

Not only London. Purley, Crawley and Horsham all get (marginally) quicker journeys to Redhill because of the skip stopping.

Ironically the current timings are no faster than a 4VEP in the 1980s. My recollection is that all stations Horsham to Redhill except Faygate took 33 minutes. A 700 ought to be able to do better than that, especially on the uphill grade from Gatwick to Redhill.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Ironically the current timings are no faster than a 4VEP in the 1980s. My recollection is that all stations Horsham to Redhill except Faygate took 33 minutes. A 700 ought to be able to do better than that, especially on the uphill grade from Gatwick to Redhill.

They get stand time at Three Bridges and Gatwick now. Its needed, as passenger loadings (especially pre-covid) are more than they were then. And they're not exactly quick to do dispatch from stations, or crew changes on either

 

[Class 170101]

temporarily…

oh dear how long to implement a permanent fix?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They get stand time at Three Bridges and Gatwick now. Its needed, as passenger loadings (especially pre-covid) are more than they were then. And they're not exactly quick to do dispatch from stations, or crew changes on either

most stations are self despatch now although why on earth Purley isn't yet is beyond me.

 

[Surreytraveller]

most stations are self despatch now although why on earth Purley isn't yet is beyond me.

Indeed. But its still not quick.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Indeed. But its still not quick.

I beg to differ having travelled on 700's since May 2018 and seen the dwell times we experienced daily at East Croydon, Purley and Redhill compared to what driver despatch was achieving through the core down to London Bridge. Even when weather wasn't poor the probability of a despatcher being up teh front of the platform for a 12 car was 50/50 and in poor weather much lower.

 

[Bikeman78]

They get stand time at Three Bridges and Gatwick now. Its needed, as passenger loadings (especially pre-covid) are more than they were then. And they're not exactly quick to do dispatch from stations, or crew changes on either

I agree that more time at Gatwick is sensible. It was always a struggle. Ironically the stopper from Horsham that missed Salfords and Earlswood used to stand at Three Bridges for four minutes to let the train to Tonbridge and Maidstone West go ahead. Yet the Horsham to Redhill schedule was still the same as now with the current schedule having only a 90 second stop at Three Bridges. Slack schedules on the South Central division seem to be endemic. On the last day of the 455s one train was six late at Clapham Junction and on time again at West Croydon. Compare this with trains out to Shenfield or Hertford where they have to work hard to keep time.

 

[Fincra5]

Ironically the current timings are no faster than a 4VEP in the 1980s. My recollection is that all stations Horsham to Redhill except Faygate took 33 minutes. A 700 ought to be able to do better than that, especially on the uphill grade from Gatwick to Redhill.

1 4VEP definitely drew less power from the limited 3rd Rail than a 12/700. That's an issue to start with

 

[fkofilee]

From Three Bridges? 6 trains per hour to Thameslink no need to change.

I was suggesting most Crawley passengers for Thameslink select Three Bridges station not Crawley Station

Go from Gatwick... You have 8!
I usually do.

 

[Minstral25]

Go from Gatwick... You have 8!
I usually do.

True it's 8, but they do come with a very expensive parking bill!

 

[fkofilee]

True it's 8, but they do come with a very expensive parking bill!

I dont drive though... Bus is great towards Gatwick!

 

[talldave]

True it's 8, but they do come with a very expensive parking bill!

Long term car parks are slightly less painful than short term!

 

[Minstral25]

I dont drive though... Bus is great towards Gatwick!

True - almost all of Crawley and much of Horley is very well linked

Long term car parks are slightly less painful than short term!

But need a bus to terminal to add to journey time - why not park at Three Bridges station

The point I was trying to make is that Thameslink trains from/to Horsham do not have a many passengers travelling through Redhill that have started or continue from Horsham and Crawley. Thus the need for a faster through service is not relevant