awaiting prosecution letter

[xdragonflyx]

Are you able to upload a photo of the letter, obviously with your name and address details suitably obscured?

yes i can do that

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2022 ==

I have written a draft of my letter

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter and for giving me to have the opportunity to respond.

I was stopped by your inspector on the 14th of April 2022 due to me having an invalid train ticket as it was pointed out my Railcard had expired. I had purchased the ticket from the staffed Stevenage issuing ticket office on the 13th of April 2022 where they checked my railcard on purchasing the ticket, the receipt is attached below. I was unaware that the railcard had expired until I was stopped by the inspector later on in my journey at Hatfield.

I am deeply sorry and understand that I made a careless mistake which I take full accountability responsibility for. I should have checked the expiry date of my railcard before using it at the ticket office, but I wanted to assure you I have never had any intention to travel without a valid ticket.

I understand that the purpose of this prosecution system is to make sure that people of the public do not abuse the railway services available which the government has invested a lot of money into. I am willing to pay any outstanding fare owed and the cost of your services carrying out this investigation

As a university student, I understand that this can have a serious negative impact on my ability to get a job in the future and I would kindly like to ask if it is possible that this could be settled without court action out of court. Again, I deeply apologise.

I hope you can look favourably on this request, and I look forward to your response.



Yours faithfully,

 

[DerelictLine]

You should probably add that you have since renewed your railcard (if you have) to ensure that this does not happen again.

 

[Haywain]

yes i can do that

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2022 ==

I have written a draft of my letter

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter and for giving me to have the opportunity to respond.

I was stopped by your inspector on the 14th of April 2022 due to me having an invalid train ticket as it was pointed out my Railcard had expired. I had purchased the ticket from the staffed Stevenage issuing ticket office on the 13th of April 2022 where they checked my railcard on purchasing the ticket, the receipt is attached below. I was unaware that the railcard had expired until I was stopped by the inspector later on in my journey at Hatfield.

I am deeply sorry and understand that I made a careless mistake which I take full accountability responsibility for. I should have checked the expiry date of my railcard before using it at the ticket office, but I wanted to assure you I have never had any intention to travel without a valid ticket.

I understand that the purpose of this prosecution system is to make sure that people of the public do not abuse the railway services available which the government has invested a lot of money into. I am willing to pay any outstanding fare owed and the cost of your services carrying out this investigation

As a university student, I understand that this can have a serious negative impact on my ability to get a job in the future and I would kindly like to ask if it is possible that this could be settled without court action out of court. Again, I deeply apologise.

I hope you can look favourably on this request, and I look forward to your response.



Yours faithfully,

Good letter - you've got the length of it spot on. Other than mentioning that you now have a railcard, I would just suggest a couple of minor amendments removing words as above. Otherwise, good luck.

 

[xdragonflyx]

You should probably add that you have since renewed your railcard (if you have) to ensure that this does not happen again.

I haven't purchased a new one since I do not plan to travel on the trains very much , is there something else I could say to show that I will not repeat the same mistake ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2022 ==

Good letter - you've got the length of it spot on. Other than mentioning that you now have a railcard, I would just suggest a couple of minor amendments removing words as above. Otherwise, good luck.

I appreciate your help I will add a few adjustments I hope that this will not proceed to court, it would be very detrimental to my future

 

[WesternLancer]

I haven't purchased a new one since I do not plan to travel on the trains very much , is there something else I could say to show that I will not repeat the same mistake ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2022 ==

Hard to say what else to add given your point about future rail travel - but as others have said a good letter and I hope they read it carefully. Good luck with this.

 

[xdragonflyx]

Hard to say what else to add given your point about future rail travel - but as others have said a good letter and I hope they read it carefully. Good luck with this.

i hope so too

 

[some bloke]

I would mention the Covid aspect, to pre-empt questions about how you didn't notice for two years. You can attach a statement (make sure it is all absolutely true and unambiguous) with the letter, so the letter itself is short.

This was my first time travelling on the train since 2019 due to covid

i understand that it looks very off to not know it was expired but genuinely I don't travel on trains I just went for a concert

I do believe if they check my train record they will see i have not used their services since 2019 when i went to my last concert in London which was in date with my railcard

[They can't prove you haven't used trains. But you may be able to ask character witnesses to make statements, and/or witnesses who can back up your explanation.]

for further explanation on why I have not used my railcard...I live in the city centre so I can pretty much walk anywhere if I need to travel I use an uber or the bus. Between 2020-2022 I have been at home during the lockdown and I was not vaccinated so I was avoiding any means of transportation apart from my mum's car and walking. The railcard was purchased by my dad and the email is attached to my dads email so if there was an email sent out about renewing my card it would have gone to my dad who never informed me of the card going out of date.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2022 ==

There's some good news in their letter: they are only talking about a byelaw offence, rather than intent to avoid a fare.

 

[xdragonflyx]

I would mention the Covid aspect, to pre-empt questions about how you didn't notice for two years. You can attach a statement (make sure it is all absolutely true and unambiguous) with the letter, so the letter itself is short.



[They can't prove you haven't used trains. But you may be able to ask character witnesses to make statements, and/or witnesses who can back up your explanation.]


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2022 ==

There's some good news in their letter: they are only talking about a byelaw offence, rather than intent to avoid a fare.

thank you I will take this into consideration and add a statement.
What is the difference between a byelaw offence and the intent to avoid a fare? Does it mean they are less likely to take me to court?

 

[some bloke]

A byelaw offence, in line with the way they have described it, is likely to be viewed by universities and employers (and other people) as significantly less serious than intent to avoid. It's more like a minor speeding offence and says little about fitness to practise in a job.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2022 ==

I guess if a university or employer asked someone for details of the byelaw offence, the university or employer might think failure to check after two years could tell them something about fitness to practise, but you have a sensible story to tell about that.

As regards informing yourself now, it's less embarrassing to ask a university or professional regulator how they would view an offence of not being able to produce a valid ticket, than it would be asking them about intent to avoid a fare.

We can speculate on whether or how much the company's mention of a byelaw offence means there's a reduced chance of going to court, but I suggest it's best to focus on the minor nature of this offence, and also what you can do to avoid court, which is quite a lot.

If you're keen to avoid court for the lesser offence you might if funds allow hire a solicitor, even one who specialises in "fare evasion". Usually the advice on this forum is to wait for the company's response first and/or try again without a lawyer. But the option is there for people who can afford it. Many solicitors offer a free initial consultation.

We don't know whether the company has taken into account what you said on the phone, and sent that letter as a formality before offering a settlement, or whether they suspect multiple deliberate evasion and are going for the lesser offence because they think you're definitely guilty of that one so it's an easy win. So it's still worth mentioning things which could be evidence that you didn't intend to avoid a fare.

If they start legal proceedings, you can still keep trying for a settlement, with character references and witness statements to back up the fact that you haven't been using trains. Some university courses related to medical science may need the university to be told when the person is charged, but again this is a minor matter and if people in universities and medical-related jobs couldn't have minor convictions like for speeding, the public would lose out on a lot of talent. Maybe some of your tutors and potential employers have those convictions themselves.

Did you ask the student union for advice?

 

[xdragonflyx]

A byelaw offence, in line with the way they have described it, is likely to be viewed by universities and employers (and other people) as significantly less serious than intent to avoid. It's more like a minor speeding offence and says little about fitness to practise in a job.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2022 ==

I guess if a university or employer asked someone for details of the byelaw offence, the university or employer might think failure to check after two years could tell them something about fitness to practise, but you have a sensible story to tell about that.

As regards informing yourself now, it's less embarrassing to ask a university or professional regulator how they would view an offence of not being able to produce a valid ticket, than it would be asking them about intent to avoid a fare.

We can speculate on whether or how much the company's mention of a byelaw offence means there's a reduced chance of going to court, but I suggest it's best to focus on the minor nature of this offence, and also what you can do to avoid court, which is quite a lot.

If you're keen to avoid court for the lesser offence you might if funds allow hire a solicitor, even one who specialises in "fare evasion". Usually the advice on this forum is to wait for the company's response first and/or try again without a lawyer. But the option is there for people who can afford it. Many solicitors offer a free initial consultation.

We don't know whether the company has taken into account what you said on the phone, and sent that letter as a formality before offering a settlement, or whether they suspect multiple deliberate evasion and are going for the lesser offence because they think you're definitely guilty of that one so it's an easy win. So it's still worth mentioning things which could be evidence that you didn't intend to avoid a fare.

If they start legal proceedings, you can still keep trying for a settlement, with character references and witness statements to back up the fact that you haven't been using trains. Some university courses related to medical science may need the university to be told when the person is charged, but again this is a minor matter and if people in universities and medical-related jobs couldn't have minor convictions like for speeding, the public would lose out on a lot of talent. Maybe some of your tutors and potential employers have those convictions themselves.

Did you ask the student union for advice?

Ah okay, I see, okay I understand currently I don't have the money to pay for a solicitor right now maybe if it escalated I will. From what I heard from the people on the phone they couldn't write down anything I said since I was not on their system. Is there any way I could plead with them not to go to court, I don't have a history of this and this is my first time I really don't want to go to court I'm just about to finish university and would not look good to employers I've barely started my life and it feels like its already being ruined. I have mentioned that I bought the ticket from the issuing office and they asked to see my railcard is it worth attaching the concert ticket to show I went just for one event? Ah okay, I will contact my uni when the time comes to this I'm sure I can get a statement from them proving that we were doing university from home and I can contact my NHS GP showing that I am not vaccinated so It would be dangerous for me to have travelled within the last 2 years, the government advised unvaccinated people should not travel . I have not asked yet since I didn't know what I was expecting to get in the letter.

 

[WesternLancer]

Ah okay, I see, okay I understand currently I don't have the money to pay for a solicitor right now maybe if it escalated I will. From what I heard from the people on the phone they couldn't write down anything I said since I was not on their system. Is there any way I could plead with them not to go to court, I don't have a history of this and this is my first time I really don't want to go to court I'm just about to finish university and would not look good to employers I've barely started my life and it feels like its already being ruined. I have mentioned that I bought the ticket from the issuing office and they asked to see my railcard is it worth attaching the concert ticket to show I went just for one event? Ah okay, I will contact my uni when the time comes to this I'm sure I can get a statement from them proving that we were doing university from home and I can contact my NHS GP showing that I am not vaccinated so It would be dangerous for me to have travelled within the last 2 years, the government advised unvaccinated people should not travel . I have not asked yet since I didn't know what I was expecting to get in the letter.

Most of this isn't really relevant at this stage, surely. You've drafted a good letter, you need to see how they reply and take it form there.

If you are not going to use trains much if at all, obviously don't buy a railcard and don't mention it. They have not suggested you have done this on other occasions have they? So you don't need to send a whole lot of supporting evidence about something they have not suggested you have done anyway. You don't need to waste the time of your GP or university seeking such info as far as I can see.

 

[AlterEgo]

Ah okay, I will contact my uni when the time comes to this I'm sure I can get a statement from them proving that we were doing university from home and I can contact my NHS GP showing that I am not vaccinated so It would be dangerous for me to have travelled within the last 2 years, the government advised unvaccinated people should not travel .

The government have never advised that unvaccinated people should not leave their house and go to a different town. Be real with yourself. Would you think that “proof uni wasn’t in classes” along with “I decided not to get vaccinated” would prove to anyone you didn’t use a train?

Start by taking some responsibility. And don’t start talking about denying other potential offences they’ve not even confronted you with because that’s very naive.

Just write to them as advised and see what comes back.

 

[Blinkbonny]

This is a classic case of "overthinking," dragonfly, and again you have my sympathy. To say don't do it is a far easier task than actually not doing it!

I can only repeat that an out of date railcard is fairly low down in the levels of seriousness of railway ticketing offences - and even more so in the great scheme of things.

One day, and hopefully soon, you'll look back and wonder why you worried so much. In the meantime you'll just have to let the mind do it's thing I'm afraid.

 

[xdragonflyx]

The government have never advised that unvaccinated people should not leave their house and go to a different town. Be real with yourself. Would you think that “proof uni wasn’t in classes” along with “I decided not to get vaccinated” would prove to anyone you didn’t use a train?

Start by taking some responsibility. And don’t start talking about denying other potential offences they’ve not even confronted you with because that’s very naive.

Just write to them as advised and see what comes back.

Yes, I know but it was advised not to travel unless it was necessary, so I thought by showing these certain things it would show I did not have a necessary reason to travel and as an unvaccinated person, I would not want to expose myself to a large group of people where I had a higher chance of being infected . I'm not sure I'm just trying to figure out what I could do if this did escalate of course I take full responsibility but I was told that if it was escalated I should get witness statements about my character what else am I supposed to do I never said I was innocent I'm just trying to prove I am not a criminal and that this was purely an accident I would never go out of my way to jeopardise myself over a train ticket. For now, I will reply to the letter and see where it goes from there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2022 ==

This is a classic case of "overthinking," dragonfly, and again you have my sympathy. To say don't do it is a far easier task than actually not doing it!

I can only repeat that an out of date railcard is fairly low down in the levels of seriousness of railway ticketing offences - and even more so in the great scheme of things.

One day, and hopefully soon, you'll look back and wonder why you worried so much. In the meantime you'll just have to let the mind do it's thing I'm afraid.

Yeah, I think it's very scary the whole process and I am a natural overthinker especially since I suffer from anxiety it's kind of part of my nature to worry and think the worse which is horrible. I hope so too I have definitely learnt a big lesson from this to check all my transport cards before using them.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, I know but it was advised not to travel unless it was necessary, so I thought by showing these certain things it would show I did not have a necessary reason to travel and as an unvaccinated person, I would not want to expose myself to a large group of people where I had a higher chance of being infected . I'm not sure I'm just trying to figure out what I could do if this did escalate of course I take full responsibility but I was told that if it was escalated I should get witness statements about my character what else am I supposed to do I never said I was innocent I'm just trying to prove I am not a criminal and that this was purely an accident I would never go out of my way to jeopardise myself over a train ticket. For now, I will reply to the letter and see where it goes from there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2022 ==


Yeah, I think it's very scary the whole process and I am a natural overthinker especially since I suffer from anxiety it's kind of part of my nature to worry and think the worse which is horrible. I hope so too I have definitely learnt a big lesson from this to check all my transport cards before using them.

I can see where you are at, but try not to over worry.

Whilst the advice in post #69 may be valid, and with no criticism at all intended of the author - but I think it 'jumps the gun' somewhat given the stage your case is at. It might contain good advice to consider later on - but that can then be considered at the time - ie later on. Your case is way less serious than most on here in my view, and you will be one of a great many people that have overlooked renewing their Railcard since the pandemic that the various railway companies will have dealt with without prosecuting in court.

Good luck with getting it sorted of course, but the best thing you can do is get your reply letter as drafted off to them as soon as you can.

 

[xdragonflyx]

Most of this isn't really relevant at this stage, surely. You've drafted a good letter, you need to see how they reply and take it form there.

If you are not going to use trains much if at all, obviously don't buy a railcard and don't mention it. They have not suggested you have done this on other occasions have they? So you don't need to send a whole lot of supporting evidence about something they have not suggested you have done anyway. You don't need to waste the time of your GP or university seeking such info as far as I can see.

Oh okay thats fine then i will wait for their reply , yeah they didn't mention any other times its just that one time that I mentioned hopefully it will be resolved soon

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2022 ==

Hi guys i sat with my parents and we edited the letter I've attached it below this is gonna be the final one I just wanted to check with you guys that its okay though,

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter and giving me the opportunity to respond.

On the 13th of April I bought a return train ticket to London at Stevenage train station ticket office. I gave the ticket officer my student railcard and I paid with my debt card (copy of the receipt enclosed). On my return the next day the inspector asked for my ticket at Hatfield. He asked to see my student railcard and he told me my railcard had expired. This was the first time I had realised it had expired. I immediately apologised and offered to pay the outstanding fare however he declined, and I was told I needed to wait for a letter.

This was my first time travelling into London by train in 2 years since the pandemic started and I honestly forgot to check my railcard. I take full responsibility for this mistake, and I would like to sincerely apologise for this. I am a university student and I fully understand the implications of such an offence on my future career so travelling without a valid ticket is something that I would not intentionally do. I have no history of committing such an offence and I am willing to pay any outstanding fare owed and associated costs. Once again, I deeply apologise for this mistake and would kindly ask if this could be settled out of court.

I hope my request will be considered favourably, and I look forward to your response.

 

[WesternLancer]

Oh okay thats fine then i will wait for their reply , yeah they didn't mention any other times its just that one time that I mentioned hopefully it will be resolved soon

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2022 ==

Hi guys i sat with my parents and we edited the letter I've attached it below this is gonna be the final one I just wanted to check with you guys that its okay though,

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter and giving me the opportunity to respond.

On the 13th of April I bought a return train ticket to London at Stevenage train station ticket office. I gave the ticket officer my student railcard and I paid with my debt card (copy of the receipt enclosed). On my return the next day the inspector asked for my ticket at Hatfield. He asked to see my student railcard and he told me my railcard had expired. This was the first time I had realised it had expired. I immediately apologised and offered to pay the outstanding fare however he declined, and I was told I needed to wait for a letter.

This was my first time travelling into London by train in 2 years since the pandemic started and I honestly forgot to check my railcard. I take full responsibility for this mistake, and I would like to sincerely apologise for this. I am a university student and I fully understand the implications of such an offence on my future career so travelling without a valid ticket is something that I would not intentionally do. I have no history of committing such an offence and I am willing to pay any outstanding fare owed and associated costs. Once again, I deeply apologise for this mistake and would kindly ask if this could be settled out of court.

I hope my request will be considered favourably, and I look forward to your response.

Good letter. One minor point: I suspect your railcard is/was not a 'Student Railcard' but '16-25 Railcard'. Worth a check your end and using the correct name of it in the letter where you mention it - twice in 1st para I think (there are various railcards for young people now so if you can not easily recall what you had, have a look at their website if that helps identify the correct name of it).

Typo - 'debt card' / debit card.

Also maybe no need to mention travel 'into London' as you'd perhaps be better to say no train travel to anywhere eg "my first time travelling by train since the pandemic started" instead. I have removed 'started' since that is so long ago now it may unnecessarily draw attention to quite how old the railcard was.

Still good to enclose the copy of the receipt you had since that shows that you bought it at ticket office where staff should have checked the railcard you showed them. I'm not suggesting you accuse them of not checking it - but a sharp eyed reader of your letter just might wonder if the railway had not helped matters in this instance.

 

[xdragonflyx]

Good letter. One minor point: I suspect your railcard is/was not a 'Student Railcard' but '16-25 Railcard'. Worth a check your end and using the correct name of it in the letter where you mention it - twice in 1st para I think (there are various railcards for young people now so if you can not easily recall what you had, have a look at their website if that helps identify the correct name of it).

Typo - 'debt card' / debit card.

Also maybe no need to mention travel 'into London' as you'd perhaps be better to say no train travel to anywhere eg "my first time travelling by train since the pandemic started" instead. I have removed 'started' since that is so long ago now it may unnecessarily draw attention to quite how old the railcard was.

Still good to enclose the copy of the receipt you had since that shows that you bought it at ticket office where staff should have checked the railcard you showed them. I'm not suggesting you accuse them of not checking it - but a sharp eyed reader of your letter just might wonder if the railway had not helped matters in this instance.

Thank you so much I will add these edits, ah i understand I just wanted to be specific, my mum is about to send the letter today so I will let you guys know the verdict, a bit stressed I hope they will forgive me on this occasion

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much I will add these edits, ah i understand I just wanted to be specific, my mum is about to send the letter today so I will let you guys know the verdict, a bit stressed I hope they will forgive me on this occasion

You may want to post it 'signed for' at the post office - or whatever Royal Mail call it - then you can be sure it has been received.

I think you have every chance of getting this sorted OK. But there is good stuff in your original draft you could use if you have to write to them again on the matter.

 

[xdragonflyx]

You may want to post it 'signed for' at the post office - or whatever Royal Mail call it - then you can be sure it has been received.

I think you have every chance of getting this sorted OK. But there is good stuff in your original draft you could use if you have to write to them again on the matter.

Hiya yes I did do this, i sent it 1st class, with tracking and a receipt of confirmation , okie dokie thank you so much

 

[WesternLancer]

Hiya yes I did do this, i sent it 1st class, with tracking and a receipt of confirmation , okie dokie thank you so much

OK, thanks, you have been thorough which is good - so good luck. Keep us posted on developments if you wish, esp if you need further advice on things.

 

[xdragonflyx]

Will do, it seems on the tracking they got it 2 days after I sent it, I tried calling (it just kept ringing then went to voicemail, I have left them 1 asking if they received the letter) and emailing (an automatic reply appeared its been a week still no reply) to double-check but they have not responded yet I don't know if they are on strike or are blatantly ignoring people now I find it very strange and scary

 

[WesternLancer]

Will do, it seems on the tracking they got it 2 days after I sent it, I tried calling (it just kept ringing then went to voicemail, I have left them 1 asking if they received the letter) and emailing (an automatic reply appeared its been a week still no reply) to double-check but they have not responded yet I don't know if they are on strike or are blatantly ignoring people now I find it very strange and scary

To be honest they will have better things to do than reply to e-mails and calls asking if they got letters or e-mails! The tracking prooved they got it, best now let it take its course. If they had enough staff to reply to all those they would have to charge higher out of court settlements to cover the admin costs too. You just need to be patient now I think.

 

[xdragonflyx]

Update!
I received a letter today from GTR offering me an out-of-court settlement for £60.65 paid it straight away! Happy it is over even though I had to take out some money I was saving, I've definitely learnt a valuable lesson and will be buying tickets full price and checking the expiry date on all my transport discount cards . Thank you everyone for you help I really appreciate it

 

[WesternLancer]

Update!
I received a letter today from GTR offering me an out-of-court settlement for £60.65 paid it straight away! Happy it is over even though I had to take out some money I was saving, I've definitely learnt a valuable lesson and will be buying tickets full price and checking the expiry date on all my transport discount cards . Thank you everyone for you help I really appreciate it

Thanks for this update - sorry you have had to pay this but hope you feel it resolves things suitably.

 

[Hadders]

This sounds like a decent result. Thanks for updating us.

 

[xdragonflyx]

Thanks for this update - sorry you have had to pay this but hope you feel it resolves things suitably.

Yes most definitely im just happy that they didn't take me to court

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jun 2022 ==

This sounds like a decent result. Thanks for updating us.

Most definitely, thats okay hopefully this thread will be able to help someone else in a similar position