Rail industry preparing for national strikes

[ANorthernGuard]

The overwhelming support for strike action, at a time when many will find not being paid especially difficult goes a long way to showing that this is not just about pay. There are many issues causing discontent and low morale in the background that seem to be deteriorating by the week.

Hopefully this will be a wake up call for both sides to sit down and start some meaningful discussions as it is both staff and the public losing from here on out whilst the powers that be play their games. I feel this is more in hope than expectation however.

Well Said

 

[Intermodal]

All these rail staff want to get back to work rather than sitting about! They get paid loads you know!

 

[johncrossley]

No One wants a strike, just a fair deal and I don't think anyone is expecting RPI however we have had enough. Clapping doesn't pay the bills.

What's a fair deal, though? It is undefined.

 

[dk1]

All these rail staff want to get back to work rather than sitting about! They get paid loads you know!

Thanks for that.

 

[Bald Rick]

If you use the last two years as an example, the industry has recovered much faster than was expected across the board.

It hasn’t, in fact it has recovered remarkably consistently with the modelling and forecasts.

My gut feeling is that this will not end well.

I’m afraid I agree. I suspect it will end very badly for some people, and indeed some parts of the country.

Of course they won’t.

Not for the first time I admire your confidence. Personally I’m not so sure. (In the context of route / station closures if the dispute is prolonged). I think it is a very realistic prospect.

 

[yorkie]

There's a letter from GA circulating pertaining to pay middle management hundreds of pounds to train as contingency conductors if strikes happen..
Yet nothing is in the pot for a rise...

This has already been answered:

I can understand the point you're making, but trying to compare one-off ad-hoc payments with an incremental salary increase which is compounded year-on-year is like comparing apples with pears in financial terms.

I’m afraid I agree. I suspect it will end very badly for some people, and indeed some parts of the country.

Agreed and I will firmly assign a significant chunk of the blame to the RMT, and I don't think I will have any sympathy for those who voted for it.

 

[dk1]

Not for the first time I admire your confidence. Personally I’m not so sure. (In the context of route / station closures if the dispute is prolonged). I think it is a very realistic prospect.

Okay. In that we differ then & as you say, not for the first time.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

It hasn’t, in fact it has recovered remarkably consistently with the modelling and forecasts.




I’m afraid I agree. I suspect it will end very badly for some people, and indeed some parts of the country.



Not for the first time I admire your confidence. Personally I’m not so sure. (In the context of route / station closures if the dispute is prolonged). I think it is a very realistic prospect.

Guess it really depends on how long the strikes are going to go on for, if they happen of course?

 

[Efini92]

What closing the railway and importing a much cheaper one from abroad? How will that work exactly?!

It sounds like Ali G’s manifesto.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

What's a fair deal, though? It is undefined.

Through Negotiation a deal that both sides will accept. It is so much more than pay. Morale is at an all time low (worse than during the Pandemic and worse than when Northern Guards were fighting for their jobs) So many Grades have just had enough. for each Toc and NR there will be different challenges. Compulsory Redundancies through Network Rail needs to be challenged and yes Pay needs to be improved. In real terms the Average Northern Guard has lost about 3 to 4K due to Mobile sales taking over from traditional ticketing and then no pay award for 3 years.

 

[CapabilityB]

If you get rid of the allegedly overpaid drivers , who will drive the train

And that's the problem.

If there was a re-levelling of wages across all industries, what would a "fair" wage for different rail staff look like?

In reality it would look radically worse for management as well as operational staff.

It's hard for the individuals, but why isn't a reset fair in the wider scheme of things?

I get the arguement that this shouldn't be a race to the bottom, and that pay raises reflecting inflation have a place (in the right economic environment).

But some on here don't seem to realise how grossly overpaid they have been before the pandemic. For them it's not a race to the bottom, but alignment to the mean.

 

[Andrew1395]

The union has an overwhelming mandate now to negotiate a pay settlement with management. A turn out of 7 out of 10 of those able to vote and 9 out if 10 of those votes cast in favour.

Management will have no doubt the feeling after three years of pay freeze (and of course the never to be recovered cut in your pension when retirement beckons).

last years accounts for Network Rail report a before tax profit of £1.6 billion. Operating profit (before finance charges) of £3.2 billion.

we all are facing annual household energy bills of £2,800 which no doubt is an ouch when you earn £554,000 a year. But it is catastrophic when you are taking home £2,000 each pay packet (£26,000 a year in your bank account). The railway is not just drivers. Even rail replacement bus services rely on an accounts payable clerk to ensure the bus company continue to supply the bus, by ensuring their invoice is paid!

 

[mrd269697]

Funny that. At Bristol Temple Meads they have opened a temporary booking office while the renovate the normal booking office. Which would be a strange thing to do if hardly any tickets were sold using this method…

Hardly any tickets are sold this way - funny I sold 158 this morning at one of our quietest stations for my TOC.

 

[johncrossley]

Through Negotiation a deal that both sides will accept. It is so much more than pay.

Pretty much anyone who has a job can always say they want more money and/or better working conditions, so will never be satisfied. If you earn £50K you want £60K. If you earn £100K you want £150K. If you are a Premier League footballer on £10 million a year you want £15 million.

 

[Efini92]

All I want is an honest weeks pay for an honest days work, it’s not a lot to ask.

 

[philosopher]

Guess it really depends on how long the strikes are going to go on for, if they happen of course?

Just how bad is this industrial action likely to be? Reading some of the comments it sounds like there is going to be a continuous strike lasting for months during which time only a skeletal service runs. Mostly likely I would assume it would consist of weekly strikes with overtime bans for the rest of time.

 

[43066]

In many private sector jobs it's not all about money all the time. People can use their individual abilities and strengths to further their position within the organisation and have little need for any bureaucracy associated with the membership of a trade union. To many people, their independence, and flexibility in hours/days worked and holidays can be a major benefit of a private company.

All of which applies to the railway industry and I’m curious to know which “bureaucracy” do you speak of? You still haven’t told us which industry you’re in yourself.

Just what deep and rich experience is it that informs the sage utterances and observations you so regularly treat us to on these boards??

But some on here don't seem to realise how grossly overpaid they have been before the pandemic. For them it's not a race to the bottom, but alignment to the mean.

Who on Earth do you think you are to decree that another group of workers is “overpaid”?

What do you do and how much do you earn, please?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just how bad is this industrial action likely to be? Reading some of the comments it sounds like there is going to be a continuous strike lasting for months during which time only a skeletal service runs. Mostly likely I would assume it would consist of weekly strikes with overtime bans for the rest of time.

Most likely is one day a week plus no volunteering for Sunday work, so no weekend service, I reckon. A good number of strikes have taken that form in the past, including the very lengthy First North Western ones of the early 2000s, and people like weekends off. "All out" is unlikely as staff wouldn't be able to afford it.

 

[Dai Corner]

All I want is an honest weeks pay for an honest days work, it’s not a lot to ask.

I'd have liked that when I was working but my boss insisted I worked the whole week.

 

[43066]

Just how bad is this industrial action likely to be? Reading some of the comments it sounds like there is going to be a continuous strike lasting for months during which time only a skeletal service runs. Mostly likely I would assume it would consist of weekly strikes with overtime bans for the rest of time.

It’s difficult for anyone to say at this stage. Hopefully cool heads will prevail and too much disruption can be averted.

 

[uglymonkey]

And that's the problem.

If there was a re-levelling of wages across all industries, what would a "fair" wage for different rail staff look like?

In reality it would look radically worse for management as well as operational staff.

It's hard for the individuals, but why isn't a reset fair in the wider scheme of things?

I get the arguement that this shouldn't be a race to the bottom, and that pay raises reflecting inflation have a place (in the right economic environment).

But some on here don't seem to realise how grossly overpaid they have been before the pandemic. For them it's not a race to the bottom, but alignment to the mean.

A semi-skilled manual worker on 50k + a year? Do they all have PhD's , these fabled railway workers (drivers esp).

 

[Dai Corner]

Who on Earth do you think you are to accuse another group of workers of being “overpaid”?

Somebody upthread said 'talent pools are overflowing'. That suggests pay may be more than adequate.

 

[westv]

Most likely is one day a week plus no volunteering for Sunday work, so no weekend service, I reckon. A good number of strikes have taken that form in the past, including the very lengthy First North Western ones of the early 2000s, and people like weekends off. "All out" is unlikely as staff wouldn't be able to afford it.

One day a week would maybe suggest a Wednesday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Network rail and the DFT going to have fun trying to get the bus industry to help as our morale is in the gutters and anger in the industry towards the government is just increasing every day abs I suspect if the rail
Industry shuts down you won’t many of us bus drivers coming to the rescue.

That will very much depend on your contract (that is, for most drivers, if your employer tells you to drive rail replacement that's what you'll be driving), unless you are desirous of being sacked. Sympathetic strike action is illegal.

 

[cf111]

Money is getting tighter for everyone, I can't really blame union members looking for a wage rise. I think this might be the start of a miserable summer for a lot of folk, hopefully most of that misery lands on the heads of our esteemed political leaders.

 

[philosopher]

Most likely is one day a week plus no volunteering for Sunday work, so no weekend service, I reckon. A good number of strikes have taken that form in the past, including the very lengthy First North Western ones of the early 2000s, and people like weekends off. "All out" is unlikely as staff wouldn't be able to afford it.

If this is the case, then I can imagine a fair number of leisure passenger giving up on the railway, which given most of the recovery over the past year has been driven by leisure passengers can’t be good news at all.

 

[43066]

Somebody upthread said 'talent pools are overflowing'. That suggests pay may be more than adequate.

Very simplistic.

Lots of people want to work at Goldman Sachs. Does that mean they pay too much?

 

[Guard86]

ASB has rocketed since the Pandemic. BTP are rarer than everyone agreeing about Industrial Action on the Railway and Travel Safe Officers have limited powers. and with cameras everywhere the Culprits know they can get away with anything they want as long as there face is covered.

Staff assaults up here have sky rocketed where staff no longer want to come to work. Our own travel safe team, one member ended up in hospital with multiple head and neck injuries. BTP.. pointless.

Context. Scottish cup final and they drafted in from Wales and Birmingham for a normal football event. But staff getting attacked left, right and centre... No one to attend because they're attending another one elsewhere.
Alcohol ban... won't do anything because it isn't " a real law" apparently. can only advise that it mustn't be consumed or visible on board or in stations.
Someone with no ticket... well, taken off, wait a few services and pap them onto the next one where it's direct to the offenders stop.

I'm not going to begin a wrath of posts of arguments, all I will say is that unless you are in the situation and you can see first hand what is actually going on rather than what you THINK or ASSUME is going on, then there's no basis for comment. It's obviously fine to have an opinion, but don't think one knows something they don't know or understand.

Come and do the job yourselves and decide from there.

I can happily be corrected on this, but staff get paid for their training and competency for the what if's... not just to simply push buttons, check tickets, customer service, pull a few handles... I'll sadly refer to the Carmont disaster and the outstanding performance from a fellow sister who alerted who needed to be alerted...

Do away with WRD, it doesn't affect me personally.. bring Sundays in to the working week too.. but at least compensate for it and hire the staff that can fulfil the TT that each TOCs wants rather then create one that is based on OT. Because that's what they are. Only thing to blame is the recruitment procedures. But as they railway has done over the decades is hire the minimum and depend on goodwill OT volunteers.. and yet still want to cut more.

Booking offices... majority of people might be electronically advanced, what about our vulnerable passengers, our pensioners who may not have access to such things... Those who just have the general comfort knowing that they have someone they can go to quickly if there's some sort of ASB happening in that area.

What if you're a DOO service, (no dig at any DOO brothers or sisters, mainly a point) and the T/O is closed and there's a passenger needing boarding via a ramp.. I believe some TOCs advise the driver not to leave the cab and make arrangements via control to assist (taxi etc)... That's not good for the pax.

Looks like I ended up on a rant in one post rather than multiple. the general point is, there's so much more than just money. Yes it is a factor, but it's really not the fuel that's triggered it. It's been years coming and now it's came to boiling point. And really, only those on the inside will know it but no company will ever divulge in such short cummings, and when others do... It's apparently the unions starting it. NO. Members make the unions and the staff are speaking out because we've had enough.

END

 

[Bletchleyite]

If this is the case, then I can imagine a fair number of leisure passenger giving up on the railway, which given most of the recovery over the past year has been driven by leisure passengers can’t be good news at all.

For that specific reason I echo the sadness (not anger) of another poster upthread. This could do the railway serious damage, and is likely to be far more harmful for staff than accepting bad pay rises for a few years until things recover (as people in all manner of industries will).

 

[Dai Corner]

Very simplistic.

Lots of people want to work at Goldman Sachs. Does that mean they pay too much?

Quite possibly, yes.