Rail industry preparing for national strikes

[Signal_Box]

As far as I can tell, the narrative has already been written that this is all about pay. It is not.

I work as a signalman; the three areas that I sign all have known, reported faults and some form of degraded working. Every single shift, degraded working is in place. Reducing the number of maintenance staff, cutting patrols and resorting to a fix on fail method of maintaining the infrastructure WILL have consequences with regards to safety; it will cause delays as I am forced to caution trains and deal with Emergency Speed Restrictions due to the infrastructure falling to pieces.

This is about more than just pay.

Your very real concerns have already been drown out, this is about pay and only pay. Not the very real threat to the safety of the railway, the union has made a grave mistake lumping us all in together it’ll make it impossible to push forward to real concerns.

 

[Jack in England]

We were treated like mushrooms in the pandemic told to come in to work everyday and not to worry just wash you hands every now and then whilst manning the gates making sure other key workers had to pay to go to work while our managers communicated with us via email while in their gardens having BBQ's and spending time with their families.

Stuff them now it's our time, any savvy worker would have smashed the O/T the last few months in readiness for this news

 

[Bletchleyite]

Trouble is if they’re closed and staff aren’t replaced we likely won’t end up with something like the ARL network (which I agree can be more effective than traditional ticket offices), it’ll be more like SE metro and GTR where many stations are completely unstaffed much of the time.

What's the ARL network, sorry?

I don't see a huge issue with unstaffed stations to be honest, provided they are well-kept and CCTV is installed. Merseyrail booking offices for instance are so far from the platform in most cases that they might as well be the shop over the road in terms of the help they'd provide.

 

[cambsy]

D200, Not saying the rail workers roll over for tummy tickle, but they wont get what they want, and it will cause long term harm to the railways, and not do anyone any good, be careful what you wish for with the unions.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Id sooner have a guard than a pay rise. I hate DOO. 23 years of it with current TOC. 12 years before with a guard . I prefer my mate at my back

Got to agree.Only ever did DOO in the 90s, but we've got it coming again.
Guards are very useful.

 

[DanNCL]

What did the RMT say about ticket office closures?

To be fair, regardless of what the RMT does or doesn't say, these are a given over the coming years. Some already have, but I'd expect there to be few left other than maybe the Major Stations (if even those) within 10-20 years. And there's no strike leverage over them because there are plenty of other ways to pay.

They published a list of ticket offices they claimed had been threatened with closure. Every single ticket office in the UK pretty much was on that list including all of the London Terminals, along with some offices that shut long ago, and if I recall correctly even one on the Oldham Loop!

Ticket office closure lists won’t have had a dramatic impact. Most people including those in said ticket offices knew it was an out of date lists but still impacts them all the same

That on it's own will have made some difference, yes not a huge one but some. The bigger point is that if the RMT will lie about that, what else may they also have lied about.

The NR director saying that people should of worked harder at school for better pay certainly did however

I agree.

For instance ASB is best dealt with by way of increased BTP or secondarily by dedicated security staff.

I'm not sure it is in all cases. It's been tried on the Tyne & Wear Metro and not made the slightest bit of difference.

What's the ARL network, sorry?

Arriva Rail London - London Overground.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Agreed. Unfortunately I've had more bad experiences than good at booking offices (and this is nothing new), and as such I simply don't use them any more unless I have no option but to do so (e.g. that "wonderfully" Luddite grey and yellow operation on Merseyside which really just needs to get e-tickets and contactless sorted).



Staffing needs to be more targetted to solve problems. For instance ASB is best dealt with by way of increased BTP or secondarily by dedicated security staff.

ASB has rocketed since the Pandemic. BTP are rarer than everyone agreeing about Industrial Action on the Railway and Travel Safe Officers have limited powers. and with cameras everywhere the Culprits know they can get away with anything they want as long as there face is covered.

 

[DanNCL]

ASB has rocketed since the Pandemic. BTP are rarer than everyone agreeing about Industrial Action on the Railway and Travel Safe Officers have limited powers. and with cameras everywhere the Culprits know they can get away with anything they want as long as there face is covered.

BTP were useless even before the pandemic, Covid has just made it even worse.

 

[Signal_Box]

Erm, would you like to make a late entry in the TRB / occurrence book to make an amendment?

LOL already made…..I’m women enough to admit i was wrong. But, a strike hasn’t been announced yet so there’s still time.

 

[ar10642]

Of course they won’t.

Why are you so sure of this? If this shuts the thing down for months we're about to find out how essential some of these lines are as people find alternatives in cars, coaches, work from home or simply not going in a cost of living crisis. Sure you want the answer?

We have a government with an 80 seat majority who can effectively do whatever they please and a treasury looking to claw back Covid debt. Seems like an easy target to me, especially if the railway chooses to spend the summer alienating the travelling public.

 

[43066]

What's

Sorry. London Overground (ie Arriva Rail London).

I don't see a huge issue with unstaffed stations to be honest, provided they are well-kept and CCTV is installed. Merseyrail booking offices for instance are so far from the platform in most cases that they might as well be the shop over the road in terms of the help they'd provide.

Having first to last visible staff is what brought the ex Silverlink metro out of the doldrums. There are areas of SE and GTR which can be pretty nasty (albeit not to the same level given gentrification over the last two decades). It would be a shame to see staffing levels in these areas drop still further.

 

[Robertj21a]

Can we calm down and agree to disagree. It is clear to me that the majority who work on the railway are behind the strike, and those who just like to travel on a choo choo, aren't.

Hardly surprising is it. But for those who think we all earn too much, can I ask, 'Why are you not clambering over the fences to get onto the railway?'

In many private sector jobs it's not all about money all the time. People can use their individual abilities and strengths to further their position within the organisation and have little need for any bureaucracy associated with the membership of a trade union. To many people, their independence, and flexibility in hours/days worked and holidays can be a major benefit of a private company.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

LOL already made…..I’m women enough to admit i was wrong. But, a strike hasn’t been announced yet so there’s still time.

No One wants a strike, just a fair deal and I don't think anyone is expecting RPI however we have had enough. Clapping doesn't pay the bills.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We were treated like mushrooms in the pandemic told to come in to work everyday and not to worry just wash you hands every now and then whilst manning the gates making sure other key workers had to pay to go to work while our managers communicated with us via email while in their gardens having BBQ's and spending time with their families.

I think there's a "grass always greener" aspect there. I did work through the pandemic from home (bar a minimum 3-week furlough which I suspect was probably never claimed by my employer). I'm normally pro home-working, but tend to be quite "in person" sociable outside work to make up for the isolating aspects of it, typically doing something-or-other pretty much every night and most weekends. Being prevented from doing any of this bar going for a walk or bike ride on my own was not good for my mental health, so as I've never been particularly scared of COVID* I was quite envious of "key workers" who were still able to go out and work! To be fair I did do some voluntary work for a local church once a week.

So I don't think I'd assume people look up to staff because they worked. I think a lot of people were actually more than a little envious.

I would definitely not have liked to be furloughed for months. I'd have gone mad. Sitting at home doing nowt sounds good until you actually do it - 3 weeks were quite enough.

* Despite which it seems I've still never had it!

 

[yorkie]

What's the ARL network, sorry?

Instead of saying London Overground (LO) some people refer to the legal name of the incumbent operating company at the time; that was previously LOROL (2007-2016) and is now ARL. For consistency, it would be easier if the public-facing TOC name was used.

ASB has rocketed since the Pandemic. BTP are rarer than everyone agreeing about Industrial Action on the Railway and Travel Safe Officers have limited powers. and with cameras everywhere the Culprits know they can get away with anything they want as long as there face is covered.

That is a major concern but is best discussed in a new thread; feel free to create one in the Covid section and I will back you up on this!

 

[dk1]

Why are you so sure of this? If this shuts the thing down for months we're about to find out how essential some of these lines are as people find alternatives in cars, coaches, work from home or simply not going in a cost of living crisis. Sure you want the answer?

We have a government with an 80 seat majority who can effectively do whatever they please and a treasury looking to claw back Covid debt. Seems like an easy target to me, especially if the railway chooses to spend the summer alienating the travelling public.

Some very knee jerk & over the top reactions on here this evening. Must be something in the air. Nothing to do with being sure.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

For the train tickets, yes. But if the hotel is non-refundable that's a big hit to take.

Is that not what travel insurance is usually purchased for - issues such as trip abandonment?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They published a list of ticket offices they claimed had been threatened with closure. Every single ticket office in the UK pretty much was on that list including all of the London Terminals, along with some offices that shut long ago, and if I recall correctly even one on the Oldham Loop!

Ah yes, I remember that. It is true that (in practice) all or nearly all ticket offices are under threat, but listing a load that aren't even there any more just shows gross laziness.

I'm not sure it is in all cases. It's been tried on the Tyne & Wear Metro and not made the slightest bit of difference.

Worked on Merseyrail. Carlisle Security aren't universally popular but there is a heck of a lot less ASB now. Yes, OK, it's not DOO, but guards mostly just work from the cabs as they always have. To be fair they are often slightly more visible than LNR, which most people probably think is DOO.

Arriva Rail London - London Overground.

Thanks (and to @yorkie).

 

[westv]

Will Hull Trains and Grand Central be able to claim any sort of compensation if they are unable to run any services?

Fortunately I can easily WFH and I don't travel down to London as much as I used to so won't be affected.

 

[DA1]

As far as I can tell, the narrative has already been written that this is all about pay. It is not.

I work as a signalman; the three areas that I sign all have known, reported faults and some form of degraded working. Every single shift, degraded working is in place. Reducing the number of maintenance staff, cutting patrols and resorting to a fix on fail method of maintaining the infrastructure WILL have consequences with regards to safety; it will cause delays as I am forced to caution trains and deal with Emergency Speed Restrictions due to the infrastructure falling to pieces.

This is about more than just about pay.

This post is bang on. As a driver, in my area, the amount of temp/emergency speed restrictions at the moment is ludicrous! We also recently had diversions for a week or two as a set of points which carry 4-6 trains an hour have to be plain lined (set for one direction) making every train around 10 minutes late (which isn't great with minimum turnaround).

This is definitely about more than just pay.

 

[CapabilityB]

We were told so many times that the current governement’s aim is to create high skills high wages economy .

Time to live to its promises .

And driving innovation and change. So maybe introducing the technology that makes a significant number of unnecessary, overpaid, railway jobs unnecessary.

A number of people have said to stop concentrating on the overpaid train staff and think about the underpaid train cleaners or office workers.

Fine... We'll get rid of the overpaid train staff and give the cleaners and office workers the raises they haven't had which their "skilled" colleagues have had over the past 20 years.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

This post is bang on. As a driver, in my area, the amount of temp/emergency speed restrictions at the moment is ludicrous! We also recently had diversions for a week or two as a set of points which carry 4-6 trains an hour have to be plain lined (set for one direction) making every train around 10 minutes late (which isn't great with minimum turnaround).

This is definitely about more than just pay.

Was that Tanners Hill Junction?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is that not what travel insurance is usually purchased for - issues such as trip abandonment?

I'd figure most people don't have insurance for UK only travel. With most policies you have to have two nights away for it to even apply.

To be fair, all Premier Inn rates are changeable since COVID, they no longer have a non-refundable and non-changeable option, just a choice of three refund policies (on the day, 3 days before, not at all) with all bookings changeable up to the day of arrival. That's one reason I use them and I hope they keep the policy. Normally I choose the middle rate (refundable to 3 days before). Sometimes it's worth a look 4 days beforehand to see if it's worth cancelling and rebooking non-refundable

 

[westv]

For the train tickets, yes. But if the hotel is non-refundable that's a big hit to take.

I've previously booked rooms with Premier Inn. The rate I used was non refundable but the dates could be moved up to 12 months into the future.

 

[ar10642]

We will stick together and fight. That is all we can do.

We were treated like mushrooms in the pandemic told to come in to work everyday and not to worry just wash you hands every now and then whilst manning the gates making sure other key workers had to pay to go to work while our managers communicated with us via email while in their gardens having BBQ's and spending time with their families.

Stuff them now it's our time, any savvy worker would have smashed the O/T the last few months in readiness for this news

I think I would have preferred to drive the almost empty 12 car Thameslink trains that went past my house for months on end back in 2020 rather than being furlough for months looking for jobs and being bored out of my mind, being threatened with redundancy and having to find another job in a dead market entirely via video calls. I'm sure I was just having a load a barbecues really.

 

[yorkie]

Is that not what travel insurance is usually purchased for - issues such as trip abandonment?

You'll still be paying the excess, and if you can get a refund on travel but not the hotel it may not be worth paying the excess, depending on how much it is. I am not sure if all policies cover strike action and even then it may not be worth it, depending on the excess vs the cost of the hotel. If anyone is in this position, I suggest they create a new thread in the Trip Planning section.

I've previously booked rooms with Premier Inn. The rate I used was non refundable but the dates could be moved up to 12 months into the future.

Yes that's a really good reason to book with Premier Inn, but any further discussion on this is best placed in a new thread.

 

[baz962]

And driving innovation and change. So maybe introducing the technology that makes a significant number of unnecessary, overpaid, railway jobs unnecessary.

A number of people have said to stop concentrating on the overpaid train staff and think about the underpaid train cleaners or office workers.

Fine... We'll get rid of the overpaid train staff and give the cleaners and office workers the raises they haven't had which their "skilled" colleagues have had over the past 20 years.

If you get rid of the allegedly overpaid drivers , who will drive the train

 

[ungreat]

There's a letter from GA circulating pertaining to pay middle management hundreds of pounds to train as contingency conductors if strikes happen..
Yet nothing is in the pot for a rise...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've previously booked rooms with Premier Inn. The rate I used was non refundable but the dates could be moved up to 12 months into the future.

Yep, all their rates are changeable at present. It's one reason I like them.

It's actually slightly better than Advances were pre-COVID, too - no change fee, and if you're changing to a cheaper date they give you a partial refund. I suspect this is less them being nice and more about how their accounting works, though.

 

[Thermal]

The overwhelming support for strike action, at a time when many will find not being paid especially difficult goes a long way to showing that this is not just about pay. There are many issues causing discontent and low morale in the background that seem to be deteriorating by the week.

Hopefully this will be a wake up call for both sides to sit down and start some meaningful discussions as it is both staff and the public losing from here on out whilst the powers that be play their games. I feel this is more in hope than expectation however.