Rail industry preparing for national strikes

[Howardh]

Having a paper ticket allows one not to have their phone with them. That's why I have a paper railcard - which I obtained from a ticket office - so I don't have to take my phone out with me. Long Live the Ticket Office!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having a paper ticket allows one not to have their phone with them. That's why I have a paper railcard - which I obtained from a ticket office - so I don't have to take my phone out with me. Long Live the Ticket Office!!

The point of a mobile phone is to have it with you!

But if you don't want to, you can buy a paper ticket from a TVM. A booking office is not required.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You don't have a right to choose without consequences, though. Try booking a Ryanair flight with cash. Some choices will exclude one from some other choices. As a wildly different example, one can go to Iran on holiday, but doing so excludes one from travel to the US without a visa, and possibly at all.

I wonder why you have not mentioned the second item in my posting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder why you have not mentioned the second item in my posting.

I think you edited that on, didn't you?

To be fair, I have the right to call it Ringway, and you have the right to consider that foolish

 

[robert thomas]

It utterly, utterly astonishes me that there are so many people who happily use a Web forum who don't do something as simple as card payments, let alone the use of automated systems like ticket machines and pay at pump petrol stations. I simply don't get it.

I know there are people who don't do any form of tech at all - they pay in cash, listen to the radio, read the newspaper and make phone calls on a landline only - but people posting on here who don't is just a bizarre dichotomy.

That's me and I resent being forced to do otherwise

 

[MikeWM]

The point of a mobile phone is to have it with you!

But if you don't want to, you can buy a paper ticket from a TVM. A booking office is not required.

Yes - and I'm happy to do so - but that assumes the TVM (a) sells the ticket you want to buy, (b) allows you to pay for the ticket in the desired way.

For example, neither of the 'temporary' TVMs at Ely have taken cash for almost 3 months now. The booking office, of course, still does.

 

[nedchester]

Yes - and I'm happy to do so - but that assumes the TVM (a) sells the ticket you want to buy, (b) allows you to pay for the ticket in the desired way.

For example, neither of the 'temporary' TVMs at Ely have taken cash for almost 3 months now. The booking office, of course, still does.

I'd agree that if most booking offices are closed then ALL ticket options (including Rovers) are available from TVMs. Can't be that difficult to program. Additionally, ALL ticket options are also available in mobile form.

 

[MikeWM]

I'd agree that if most booking offices are closed then ALL ticket options (including Rovers) are available from TVMs. Can't be that difficult to program.

My usual example is a PlusBus period ticket (day/week/month) as an addon to an existing season ticket. There's no way to get one of those except from a ticket office and it doesn't seem at all likely they'll ever add them to TVMs.

Maybe a fairly rare example, but very much something that isn't available any other way, and something I purchased quite often in the few years preceding covid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My usual example is a PlusBus period ticket (day/week/month) as an addon to an existing season ticket. There's no way to get one of those except from a ticket office and it doesn't seem at all likely they'll ever add them to TVMs.

Maybe a fairly rare example, but very much something that isn't available any other way, and something I purchased quite often in the few years preceding covid.

Niche stuff could be done via telesales and posted out. No reason TVMs shouldn't sell PlusBus at the same time as the relevant ticket, some of the sales websites do.

 

[Cowley]

I think we’re probably straying from the topic somewhat here…

 

[exbrel]

Yes - and I'm happy to do so - but that assumes the TVM (a) sells the ticket you want to buy, (b) allows you to pay for the ticket in the desired way.

For example, neither of the 'temporary' TVMs at Ely have taken cash for almost 3 months now. The booking office, of course, still does.

the booking office staff can help you if you are not sure of something, or help with a query, or suggest a better option,whereas a machine needs the right input to throw out the ticket you want. Also with a machine, you don't get the pleasure of a face to face interaction, and a thanks for your help.

 

[Dai Corner]

the booking office staff can help you if you are not sure of something, or help with a query, or suggest a better option,whereas a machine needs the right input to throw out the ticket you want. Also with a machine, you don't get the pleasure of a face to face interaction, and a thanks for your help.

You'll probably receive better advice if you post your question or proposed journey in the Fares Advice & Policy section of this forum.

 

[dk1]

I know there are people who don't do any form of tech at all - they pay in cash, listen to the radio, read the newspaper and make phone calls on a landline only.

I find the middle two quite normal & nothing to do with technology. In fact I’m listening to radio 2 whilst typing this in the garden & have just done the crossword in todays Mail after scanning through it.

 

[Horizon22]

The question though is whether there will be an opt-out scheme in exchange for a lower salary. As well as the 'day of rest' element, Sunday is still a day of religious observation for many and so there is this aspect to consider before forcing people to work their Sundays when previously they didn't have to - or if Sunday working was optional when they first applied for the job.

Well most new starters know what they are getting into with shift work & this should be made quite clear at the interview stage; nobody is forcing anyone. I think you'll find "religious observation" on a Sunday is actually declining significantly.

There should in my opinion be a negotiation with ALL staff that currently rely on Sunday volunteers (and probably for committed Sundays too but that is not so much of an issue) and the unions want it too. As always, the question is money.

 

[westv]

Was the ballot today or is it tomorrow?

 

[LowLevel]

Was the ballot today or is it tomorrow?

Today at 1700.

 

[Falcon1200]

So in other words anything much in excess of what you’ve personally received is “unrealistic”… Why is it realistic for people to have to accept a ten percent real terms pay cut?

Because, as I and others have asked repeatedly, without yet receiving an answer, is where the money for pay rises will come from; If the rail industry was so successful that it was able to pay a 10% increase from its own revenue, that would be wonderful; But it is absolutely not the case.

So where should the cash come from;
Fare increases ? Possible but unlikely to be popular with anyone and not exactly beneficial for the railway's future; And let's not forget, in the past the rail unions have campaigned for lower fares !
Higher taxes ? On millions of people who can perhaps only dream of receiving any pay increase at all, let alone 10% - Not exactly fair. And should Government (of any colour) decide they have to increase taxes, I doubt that rail would be top of the list for the cash, ahead of health, social care, education, defence, etc.
Operating economies ? Possible but would be fought tooth and nail by the Unions, just look at the opposition to any extension of DOO despite it having been in use for getting on for forty years.

To be clear, I believe that all rail staff are entitled to decent wages, conditions and job security, achieved through representation by strong trade unions. I also believe that despite the current state of the nation rail staff should receive a pay increase, but it has to be realistic, by which I mean achievable without needing drastic measures such as those I have mentioned above. I am deeply concerned that the future of our railways is being jeopardised by the current desperate state of operators such as TPE and Scotrail, not to mention future industrial action by other TOCs and Network Rail.

 

[43066]

So where should the cash come from;
Fare increases ? Possible but unlikely to be popular with anyone and not exactly beneficial for the railway's future; And let's not forget, in the past the rail unions have campaigned for lower fares !
Higher taxes ? On millions of people who can perhaps only dream of receiving any pay increase at all, let alone 10% - Not exactly fair. And should Government (of any colour) decide they have to increase taxes, I doubt that rail would be top of the list for the cash, ahead of health, social care, education, defence, etc.
Operating economies ? Possible but would be fought tooth and nail by the Unions, just look at the opposition to any extension of DOO despite it having been in use for getting on for forty years.

I really couldn’t care less where it comes from. I find the idea that there’s no money to reward people like myself who continued to work throughout the pandemic when millions were being paid to sit about on their backsides, only now to be told “there’s no money”, utterly offensive to be honest.

How about:

- claw back some of the £5bn that has been written off after being fraudulently claimed in Covid support;
- create an additional tax rate for those who received furlough assistance from the government
- simply borrow some more money! A little more will make hardly any difference in the grand scheme of things.

As I keep asking, where is the money to fund a pay rise for 1m+ NHS staff coming from?

 

[Efini92]

Today at 1700.

Do you think we’ll hear this evening?

 

[LowLevel]

Do you think we’ll hear this evening?

Not sure really. Might be some information out depending on how it has gone.

 

[Dai Corner]

As I keep asking, where is the money to fund a pay rise for 1m+ NHS staff coming from?

At least partly from the extra National Insurance being charged. Do you think another penny in the pound towards the railways would be a good idea?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Not sure really. Might be some information out depending on how it has gone.

I will be shocked if it isn't a Massive Vote for Both Action Short of a Strike and Strike itself.

 

[Falcon1200]

How about:

- claw back some of the £5bn that has been written off after being fraudulently claimed in Covid support;

I hope and expect the Government is doing that anyway.

create an additional tax rate for those who received furlough assistance from the government

A retrospective tax ? Not sure how that could be imposed, administered and collected.

simply borrow some more money!

Slight problem with borrowing money; Someone has to pay it back ! It is utterly unsustainable as a means of financing daily expenditure.

As I keep asking, where is the money to fund a pay rise for 1m+ NHS staff coming from?

I have no idea, not being the Chancellor !

But we will have to continue to agree to disagree, I only hope that some way will be found of getting the railway back to running a reliable service with a contented and motivated workforce. But, just now, I am not optimistic.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I really couldn’t care less where it comes from. I find the idea that there’s no money to reward people like myself who continued to work throughout the pandemic when millions were being paid to sit about on their backsides, only now to be told “there’s no money”, utterly offensive to be honest.

How about:

- claw back some of the £5bn that has been written off after being fraudulently claimed in Covid support;
- create an additional tax rate for those who received furlough assistance from the government
- simply borrow some more money! A little more will make hardly any difference in the grand scheme of things.

As I keep asking, where is the money to fund a pay rise for 1m+ NHS staff coming from?

Well said! OK to Clap but not OK to get a pay rise that equals the cost of living...Nothing More just RPI.

 

[westv]

I will be shocked if it isn't a Massive Vote for Both Action Short of a Strike and Strike itself.

How do they do it? Is it a show of hands with everybody calling each other "Brother" or is it electronic or something in between?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

How do they do it? Is it a show of hands with everybody calling each other "Brother" or is it electronic or something in between?

Receive Vote in Post Put X in preferred Box/Boxes. Post back

 

[LowLevel]

How do they do it? Is it a show of hands with everybody calling each other "Brother" or is it electronic or something in between?

Numbered anonymous ballot by post to Electoral Reform Services.

 

[43066]

I only hope that some way will be found of getting the railway back to running a reliable service with a contented and motivated workforce.

We can certainly agree on that! Many bits of it do remain pretty reliable to be fair.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I really couldn’t care less where it comes from. I find the idea that there’s no money to reward people like myself who continued to work throughout the pandemic when millions were being paid to sit about on their backsides, only now to be told “there’s no money”, utterly offensive to be honest.

How about:

- claw back some of the £5bn that has been written off after being fraudulently claimed in Covid support;
- create an additional tax rate for those who received furlough assistance from the government
- simply borrow some more money! A little more will make hardly any difference in the grand scheme of things.

As I keep asking, where is the money to fund a pay rise for 1m+ NHS staff coming from?

Problem is govts of all hues around the world have finally overused the credit card and its blown up in a rapid rise in prices. Then the Ukraine debacle is forcing up energy costs to unsustainable levels for millions of people and our govt will have to find another 10B unplanned to try and temper the impact on the poorest in our society. So having supported the railways by an additional 16B when other industries had no support the govt aren't going to readily concede anymore cash than they've budgeted for in transport. The way to adequately reward people is to for the industry leaders to talk productivity improvement with the unions to fund the element above say 5%. I don't know if the operators and NR have tried to do this or have been thwarted by too much DfT meddling but it will be tragedy for the industry given all the progress its made in growing ridership over this century for us to end up in it descending into national industrial action which would set it back forty years.

 

[dk1]

How do they do it? Is it a show of hands with everybody calling each other "Brother" or is it electronic or something in between?

Electoral Reform Services have done this via a postal ballot for many years now.