What would you do (A question for rail staff only please)

[networkrail1]

Hi Everyone.

I was working at a station today and saw a member of platform staff from a TOC getting abused by a passenger, his colleague then went to back him up and sorted it all out.

This reminded me of an incident that happened with one of my colleagues.

I know we work for separate companies TOC'S FOC'S and Network rail (the company i work for) but in my opinion we are all colleagues, as we are all railway staff.

So the question i have for you is:- If you see a member of railway staff being physically abused would you help then or just stay back and watch.

Because i havent worded my question very well here is a scenario:-

You are platform staff at peterborough, you are employed by east coast and you are currently standing on platform 5.
After giving the right of way to a XC service you watch the train leave the platform ,you notice at the end of the platform a Network rail employee with a passenger who is shouting at him, you keep watching to try and work out what is going on.

As you watch the passenger then swings at the Network rail employee hitting him square in the face and then repeatedly hits and kicks him.

So my question is WHAT WOULD YOU DO.

I know what i would do but i want to see the opinions of other staff to see what their opinion is.

NOTEPlease everyone unless you are mainline rail staff or heritage railway staff please do not reply

Thank you

All the best.

Simon

 

[AlexS]

It depends on the situation. I've intervened before - between me and an off duty BTP officer physically removed 2 abusive lads from a train at a wayside station because they were giving the guard hassle over tickets (or lack there of). I popped up first and shortly afterwards the chap sat in front of me also got up and got out his warrant card and declared that they'd best leave the train.

Even on a heritage railway you do occasionally cop for some abuse and I've always been prepared to step in where needed.

Assault is assault and in the scenario you described quite blatant - I'd be on top of the person concerned without giving them the chance to deal with the matter.

So yes, absolutely.

 

[Flamingo]

I would always help. If the situation was reversed, I would expect them to do the same.

I have had a situation where I have helped a guard from a different TOC when she was being verbally abused by a drunk kid. I have also had situations where traincrew from different TOC's have stood up and looked menacing when I've been threatened by passengers, and the passengers attitude changed when it went from 2:1 in their favour to 5:2 against!

 

[Anvil1984]

Working on the station, you have to protect everyone there doesn't matter if its fellow staff, network rail staff or general public. Don't think I would go accross there by myself though unless I was double my weight. Quick call to BTP is in order and round up any member of station staff I can before approaching the situation, remember one false move can have a counter allegation of assault. But I certainly wouldnt just do nothing and watch

(view from a newish Northern guard)

p.s If it was just arguing I would approach, but as soon as theres kicking and punching (also might need an ambulance ringing as same time as police)

 

[Ferret]

I would always help. If the situation was reversed, I would expect them to do the same.

I have had a situation where I have helped a guard from a different TOC when she was being verbally abused by a drunk kid. I have also had situations where traincrew from different TOC's have stood up and looked menacing when I've been threatened by passengers, and the passengers attitude changed when it went from 2:1 in their favour to 5:2 against!

Absolutely! Doing nothing is not an option - even if you go and get BTP you've done something! In the situation described above, I'd hope I'd be one of several staff sprinting over to deal with the assailant, and await the arrival of the Old Bill!

 

[Matt Taylor]

I have offered my assistance to train crew on another TOCs service when an argument erupted and I would do the same again provided in the same circumstances. I would be wary of getting involved in a verbal confrontation unless I had witnessed the full conversation, walking in halfway can create more problems than it solves. Physical violence is an entirely different matter as it is never warranted and is never acceptable, of course I would step in to try to calm the situation but I wouldn't do so without first contacting either another member of staff or BTP.

In any case if you have two people in physical confrontation on a platform you cannot rule out someone ending up in the four foot, if possible a call to the controlling signaller should be considered.

 

[mumrar]

In the scenario described I'd be sprinting up the platform, most likely shouting a warning whilst arming myself with my despatch baton I guess.

I would have no hesitation in doing this whatsoever, be they employed by Freightliner, FCC or AMT coffee.

 

[CarterUSM]

Hi Everyone.

I was working at a station today and saw a member of platform staff from a TOC getting abused by a passenger, his colleague then went to back him up and sorted it all out.

This reminded me of an incident that happened with one of my colleagues.

I know we work for separate companies TOC'S FOC'S and Network rail (the company i work for) but in my opinion we are all colleagues, as we are all railway staff.

So the question i have for you is:- If you see a member of railway staff being physically abused would you help then or just stay back and watch.

Because i havent worded my question very well here is a scenario:-

You are platform staff at peterborough, you are employed by east coast and you are currently standing on platform 5.
After giving the right of way to a XC service you watch the train leave the platform ,you notice at the end of the platform a Network rail employee with a passenger who is shouting at him, you keep watching to try and work out what is going on.

As you watch the passenger then swings at the Network rail employee hitting him square in the face and then repeatedly hits and kicks him.

So my question is WHAT WOULD YOU DO.

I know what i would do but i want to see the opinions of other staff to see what their opinion is.

NOTEPlease everyone unless you are mainline rail staff or heritage railway staff please do not reply

Thank you

All the best.

Simon

Shooty in, without a doubt.

 

[B1GDAD]

Have and would do again, get in and throw the person off and ensure it gets sorted one way or another.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Make sure the fuzz have been called and get in and get it sorted.

 

[TGV]

A quick call to BTP then yes, I'd intervene with diplomacy to control the situation. I would NOT simply jump in with fists and feet flying. My first thought would be to protect the person being assaulted.

 

[The_Stig]

Yes I would help. Hopefully such an incident never occurs though.

I have seen a few heated arguments and just kept an eye on the situation without jumping in and asked the TE or driver if everything is ok.

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

Not on the front line now as it were but I have been. I used to work with a Sikh fella who got picked on a few times. The appearence of myself equipped with a "BARDIC" lamp usually changed the mood of the offensive or drunk travellers.

 

[westcoaster]

There was a lm guard sacked for helping a fellow member of staff out, when they were getting ruffed up, police let the two passengers go but got the guard done for assault, only in England , but I would have no hesitation in helping.

 

[GodAtum]

Even if you are off duty?

 

[scotsman]

I'd step in in some way, preferrably with some help from anyone willing to give a hand.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

You have to help, just decency and common sense

 

[Tom B]

I'd suggest that anyone sensible - rail staff or not - would take some sort of action, even if that's just calling 999 and alerting the polis.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

A quick call to BTP then yes, I'd intervene with diplomacy to control the situation. I would NOT simply jump in with fists and feet flying. My first thought would be to protect the person being assaulted.

Excellent answer. I fully concur. Never get involved in fisticuffs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There was a lm guard sacked for helping a fellow member of staff out, when they were getting ruffed up, police let the two passengers go but got the guard done for assault, only in England , but I would have no hesitation in helping.

See TGV's answer.

 

[EM2]

All very sound advice.
Is there a station control office at Peterborough? My *first* action would be to call Control on the radio, get a camera focused on the incident, and ask them for BTP. Then a radio call for all available staff to assist.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

All very sound advice.
Is there a station control office at Peterborough? My *first* action would be to call Control on the radio, get a camera focused on the incident, and ask them for BTP. Then a radio call for all available staff to assist.

Yeah, exactly that at a large station.

I haven't had this yet (I've only just started work with my TOC) but I'd like to think I'd get involved. Obviously, if the passenger in question could very easily just do the same to me as well, running away whilst dialling 999 may be wiser!

 

[12CSVT]

Before intervening in a situation like this, bear in mind that the rule book does state that you must always put your own safety first. Some people might think it is callous when one of your colleagues is being assaulted, but that rule is there for a good reason.

 

[pendolino]

I'd help out, yes. As the OP says, we are all railway staff.

 

[Trainbuff]

I would call the BTP (I use my work fone for private use as well, which I pay for), even if off duty, and then definitely go and help.

I hope that so would any other railway employee.

We can all potentially face similar situations

However, if it were a large group of people assaulting one person it poses a different scenario I believe that only a larger group of BTP could deal with.

 

[scotsman]

Sorry, sod the rule book. If I'm in any other dangerous situation I will obey everything it has to say, but if there's someone getting in front of me getting a kicking - I'm not going to let it continue for very long.

 

[185]

Was passing another company's train a few years ago, on an express, albeit at low speed. At the back, seen a guard on the local train getting battered so stuck the back brake into emergency, and ran across the other side to help. On the way passed two P-way track workers who joined me to help out too. Scared off the chavs.

Response from the local company was "you prevented a serious incident, thank you." Response from my own employer was "Who gave you authority to.... etc etc etc".

Unfortunately, too many idiots are involved in managing todays railway, many have never been away from their desk, and assume that a train is something you do in a gym.

 

[Legzr1]

Unfortunately, too many idiots are involved in managing todays railway, many have never been away from their desk, and assume that a train is something you do in a gym.

Unfortunately,the longer I'm in this industry the more those words ring true.

 

[Aictos]

If a member of staff required assistance, I'm only to happy to help even it just means calling for BTP or Local Police assistance as you never know when it's going to be you requiring that same assistance, this applies both on duty or off duty.

 

[Stigy]

I'd certainly call Police in the first instance if it was clearly getting physical, although I'd 999 it as opposed to calling BTP, even on their emergency number. Although I've been spoken to about this before, as BTP get the hump...something to do with their figures? I see it as cutting out the middle man, because unless you're in London, or at an outpost whereby there's BTP present at least some of the time, the locals will more than likely be first on the scene! I find it sometimes (not always) works better when when the locals call in the BTP as opposed to the other way round. I tend not to care about BTP's figures when I need assistance!

I find it best to not think too much before intervening in a situation, as yoiu tend to talk yourself out of it that way. I also find that certain staff members (managers probably) usually quote the company's rules and regs etc. I have no doubt that I'd be stabbed in the back by the company I work for should it all go pear shaped, but I've done it before, and I'd do it again. I'm sick to the back teeth of people (mainly youngsters for want of a more appropriate term) getting away with things like this, and taking the p*ss out of the system because it's too mamby pamby!