Rail industry preparing for national strikes

[43066]

And that's up to them, but it is (and should be) all taxable income.

Yes agreed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Imagine if it was decided to run the rail service from Mondays to Saturdays only and give all rail staff Sunday as a rest day....

 

[XIX7007177]

Miserable lot. Income tax cut, wouldn’t have half as much trouble with drivers and pay if Boris had kept to his raising the higher rate pre election pitch.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Miserable lot. Income tax cut, wouldn’t have half as much trouble with drivers and pay if Boris had kept to his raising the higher rate pre election pitch.

If there is to be an income tax cut it should be for all taxpayers, not only overtime payments.

 

[XIX7007177]

If there is to be an income tax cut it should be for all taxpayers, not only overtime payments.

Definitely should be an income tax cut for everyone.

 

[baz962]

I was adding a caveat to that. If you have a TV & broadband deal from Sky for £30/month and they put it up to £40/month, while Virgin Media are offering you £35 for a similar package, you should switch and say your outgoings have increased by £5, not let Sky rip you off for retaining your loyalty and in turn let Sky indirectly rip off your employer.

Well I agree when it comes to sky and other non essential stuff. Isn't so easy with food , gas and electric and rent or mortgage though. My outgoings have gone up by two hundred pounds a month since December and none of which I can save on by going elsewhere.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

So if a strike is called, when would be the earliest date? How long does it take to count ballots?

 

[NI 271]

No-one should automatically say my outgoings have increased by x%, I want my income to increase by x%.

Just what happened to this country to have people start to think like this? That is the bare minimum people should be asking for, and your caveats are utterly irrelevant to that. You're free to switch to lower-cost services before you get bummed by inflation, that is a complete non-starter if you're trying to justify making the population poorer.

This country is NOT skint. The government was happy to donate tens of billions of OUR money to their friends for knowingly selling substandard PPE to the NHS during 2020/21. You'd have to be the most remarkable kind of bootlicker to watch that happen and insist those not responsible for that crooked embezzling of taxpayer money should see their quality of life annihilated in order to repay some of it.

But then that is so frequently the way here on Totally Normal Island these days. One of the richest countries in the world, and there are people hell-bent on returning our quality of life to the 1950s. Has there ever been a generation determined to ensure the following one has it worse than they did? I doubt it.

 

[baz962]

Just what happened to this country to have people start to think like this? That is the bare minimum people should be asking for, and your caveats are utterly irrelevant to that. You're free to switch to lower-cost services before you get bummed by inflation, that is a complete non-starter if you're trying to justify making the population poorer.

This country is NOT skint. The government was happy to donate tens of billions of OUR money to their friends for knowingly selling substandard PPE to the NHS during 2020/21. You'd have to be the most remarkable kind of bootlicker to watch that happen and insist those not responsible for that crooked embezzling of taxpayer money should see their quality of life annihilated in order to repay some of it.

But then that is so frequently the way here on Totally Normal Island these days. One of the richest countries in the world, and there are people hell-bent on returning our quality of life to the 1950s. Has there ever been a generation determined to ensure the following one has it worse than they did? I doubt it.

Spot on post

 

[LowLevel]

Similarly as a passenger I want to see quality, fully resourced Sunday services such that withdrawal of labour is treated the same as withdrawal of labour on a weekday (i.e. requiring a ballot and appropriate notice). I don't overly mind what precise employment structure is behind that.

I quite agree. But, and here is the important point - I don't wish to be a penny worse off as a consequence of any change, and ideally I'd like to be better off for cashing in more rights.

As it happens I've chucked in precisely 1 Sunday (with cover found) in over 10 years.

 

[JamesT]

Just what happened to this country to have people start to think like this? That is the bare minimum people should be asking for, and your caveats are utterly irrelevant to that. You're free to switch to lower-cost services before you get bummed by inflation, that is a complete non-starter if you're trying to justify making the population poorer.

This country is NOT skint. The government was happy to donate tens of billions of OUR money to their friends for knowingly selling substandard PPE to the NHS during 2020/21. You'd have to be the most remarkable kind of bootlicker to watch that happen and insist those not responsible for that crooked embezzling of taxpayer money should see their quality of life annihilated in order to repay some of it.

But then that is so frequently the way here on Totally Normal Island these days. One of the richest countries in the world, and there are people hell-bent on returning our quality of life to the 1950s. Has there ever been a generation determined to ensure the following one has it worse than they did? I doubt it.

There is a thing called the Wage-Price Spiral, where employers pass on the increased costs of the higher wages in higher prices, which leads to further demands for increased wages to cope with the increased prices and so on. Getting into that situation helps nobody.

 

[westv]

So if a strike is called, when would be the earliest date? How long does it take to count ballots?

I wondered that too. I'm due to travel down to London 20/21/22 June.

 

[dk1]

Lots of employers pay a premium to incentivise people to volunteer for overtime, whether that’s a “booking on fee”, time and a half etc.

Yes we get an additional bonus payment to make ourselves available for Rest Days & Sundays in advance if we get booked on. This of course is also subject to taxation.

 

[mike57]

There is a thing called the Wage-Price Spiral, where employers pass on the increased costs of the higher wages in higher prices, which leads to further demands for increased wages to cope with the increased prices and so on. Getting into that situation helps nobody.

And we have been there before, in the 1970s. How do you break out of it, less easy. One solution (that I am NOT advocating) is high unemployment. As to other solutions, we tried wage and price control, but that was just like holding the pressure in, and when it was released we were no better off. Ulitimately there needs to be an adjustment in living standards, the question is how to protect the vulnerable, but everyone says "yes fine, but not me of course". Politics aside, it dosen't matter who the chancellor is or from which party, its going to be a balancing act.

 

[The Planner]

So if a strike is called, when would be the earliest date? How long does it take to count ballots?

May be wrong, but I thought it had to be 14 days minimum from the result?

 

[footprints]

So if a strike is called, when would be the earliest date? How long does it take to count ballots?

Ballot closes Tuesday 5pm, results will be out either Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning. Two weeks' notice is required so earliest strike date is 7 June.

 

[Starmill]

Less likely to start with a Tuesday or a Wednesday too. So the weekend of 11 and 12 June is the more likely first days. Could be much longer though.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Less likely to start with a Tuesday or a Wednesday too. So the weekend of 11 and 12 June is the more likely first days. Could be much longer though.

I've made contingency plans at any case. Although I do recall a Network Rail strike for a Tuesday and Wednesday in June 2015 that was ultimately called off.

 

[Ramboni]

I've made contingency plans at any case. Although I do recall a Network Rail strike for a Tuesday and Wednesday in June 2015 that was ultimately called off.

How far reaching is a Network Rail action likely to be? Can it affect HS1/Eurostar services in July for instance?

 

[87015]

How far reaching is a Network Rail action likely to be? Can it affect HS1/Eurostar services in July for instance?

Yes, no-one knows the detail yet but it could.

 

[Kite159]

The TOC's must already be taking a hit on income as passengers like myself aren't buying those advance tickets as we know strikes might be approaching. So even if there are no strikes, there's already a loss?

Certainly from me, other than a trip in early June I've got no advances booked and hardly any hotels booked up which don't have free cancellation due to the uncertainty that the summer could be a nightmare for travelling.

 

[dk1]

Certainly from me, other than a trip in early June I've got no advances booked and hardly any hotels booked up which don't have free cancellation due to the uncertainty that the summer could be a nightmare for travelling.

Same here. I know I’m lucky enough to get free travel everywhere as ex-BR but I have not made any plans for June or July just incase. So that’s hotels, restaurants, bars & other attractions that are not going to get any income from me at least until I have some definite dates that action will take place.

 

[Goldfish62]

Certainly from me, other than a trip in early June I've got no advances booked and hardly any hotels booked up which don't have free cancellation due to the uncertainty that the summer could be a nightmare for travelling.

I've got multiple trips away arranged in the summer, all for which I was planning on using the train. However, for most I now have a Plan B, ie drive (for the remainder, eg a gig at Ally Pally, driving is not viable so I'll just have to take the hit and lose the ticket).

I'm certainly not booking any more advance tickets until further notice.

Such is life.

My main concern is that I need the train to get to work for at least some of the time, and no work = no pay!

 

[Howardh]

Certainly from me, other than a trip in early June I've got no advances booked and hardly any hotels booked up which don't have free cancellation due to the uncertainty that the summer could be a nightmare for travelling.

I generally avoid going anywhere (abroad or UK save for very local) from mid-July to the end of August. Not only are the hotspots crowded and over-priced, you can bet there will be some form of strikes and disruption somewhere; usually the Spanish or French air controls, or airport staff; they aren't gonna strike mid-January when no-one's travelling much! And of course Manchester Airport amongst others has released a lot of staff due to covid, and now they can't fill the vacancies quick enough so there's disruption which isn't strike related.

So this rail strike, assuming it comes, will be right at the start of the tourist season here, although to be fair I think that's a coincidence. So travellers prepare for a summer of discontent?

Could this strike affect trams? Do they join the rail unions?

 

[Kite159]

.

I've got multiple trips away arranged in the summer, all for which I was planning on using the train. However, for most I now have a Plan B, ie drive (for the remainder, eg a gig at Ally Pally, driving is not viable so I'll just have to take the hit and lose the ticket).

I'm certainly not booking any more advance tickets until further notice.

Such is life.

My main concern is that I need the train to get to work for at least some of the time, and no work = no pay!

I'm just thankful I don't need to use the railway for commuting or even business (as the quarterly project progress meetings which used to be held in London are now done over MS Teams)

 

[nedchester]

Of course your Sundays aren’t inside, indeed. You’ve also admitted you’ve never worked traincrew shifts yourself.

The point (which you’re still missing) is that employing enough staff to cover a full roster on Sundays will cost more money, so it’s unlikely to happen.



Oh do they? Thanks for telling me. It’s not as if I was a DOO train myself driver for several years. Once again, please don’t presume to tell me anything about this job. I don’t tell you about being a roster clerk.



Going from being a teacher to being a roster clerk is hardly that risky, and presumably you knew what the pay was. How would you feel if your employer decides fire and re hire you on a few thousand less to save some cash? Presumably you’d accept that unquestioningly on the basis that some nurses get paid less than you?



Indeed. Which is why it’s misguided to blame the unions who are there to represent their members, not to win popularity contests with passengers.

I have pointed out that Sundays inside will mean more staff but savings will need to be made elsewhere hence my mentioning of DOO/DCO.

I have never been a roster Clark but am a timetable planner planning LTP and STP work. Being taken on after teaching did involve a cut in wages and was a substantial risk as the lost was initially temporary. However, after 7 years I reckon I’m pretty safe for now but accept that technology will eventually remove the need for as much human interaction as before.

I think that because I have worked both inside and outside of the railway gives me a perspective on how things work inside and outside of the railway bubble.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Could this strike affect trams? Do they join the rail unions?

No. The RMT action being ballotted is against specific rail employers which are the DfT TOCs and Network Rail.
It doesn't include (from memory) Scotrail*, TfW, Merseyrail and TfL* which are not DfT-controlled.
On the other hand, action at Network Rail could affect all trains GB-wide, even if the operating TOC is unaffected.
Trams are all controlled by local government.

* there are separate disputes with these employers

 

[muz379]

I think that because I have worked both inside and outside of the railway gives me a perspective on how things work inside and outside of the railway bubble.

You aren't unique in having worked inside and outside the industry. Heck I even work with a few guards who were teachers. Let's not pretend just because you have worked outside the railway and believe that this some how gives you perspective that your opinion should carry any more weight.

 

[Annetts key]

If anything this is opening my eyes to how utterly dysfunctional and inefficient the current arrangements are in the rail industry, no other organisation could operate or even function like this. It’s crazy.

You can thank John Major and his conservative government for this. Before the railways started preparing for privatisation, most staff were on similar terms and conditions. But privatisation resulted in many, many different variations of many different terms and conditions as each company did its own thing. Which has been made worse by the loosing of contracts/franchises or as different staff have been moved between companies.

Even the management get confused…

So if a strike is called, when would be the earliest date? How long does it take to count ballots?

Ballot closes Tuesday 5pm, results will be out either Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning. Two weeks' notice is required so earliest strike date is 7 June.

The stated date range starts on 7th June. However, it’s likely that the companies will agree to further talks, so it depends on if there is any movement from the companies (and the government).

 

[dk1]

I have pointed out that Sundays inside will mean more staff but savings will need to be made elsewhere hence my mentioning of DOO/DCO.

I have never been a roster Clark but am a timetable planner planning LTP and STP work. Being taken on after teaching did involve a cut in wages and was a substantial risk as the lost was initially temporary. However, after 7 years I reckon I’m pretty safe for now but accept that technology will eventually remove the need for as much human interaction as before.

I think that because I have worked both inside and outside of the railway gives me a perspective on how things work inside and outside of the railway bubble.

I have had the thankless task of being a roster clerk & nearly went into train planning. Having however been on the railway since I was 16 I still don’t feel institutionalised. My parents ran a pub for most of my childhood & until I was 21 so know how hard it could be to run your own business & all the stress that goes with it. I was lined up to follow in their footsteps but had no intention whatsoever of doing so seeing what was involved at close hand. After joining the railway in 1984 I never looked back. Best decision I ever made & opting for the driving grade in 1998 has been the icing on the cake.

DCO is a good combination for both grades I think & on the whole has worked well since we had it forced upon us in 2019. I do get the impression that many guards miss doing the doors even though they took no financial hit for losing this important safety critical role & one that could land them in court or worse if neglect was proven should anything go wrong during dispatch.