Rail industry preparing for national strikes

[320320]

I'm not talking about whether they would support the strike. I was just wondering about the legality. If you are taking an enhanced salary for training , then are you legally/contract bound. Would they have to actually step down.

If they refused to take part in training during the extent of the dispute then scotrail would have to make a decision on whether they saw this as complete resignation from the DI role, but they’re still going to need them when the dispute is settled.

 

[Fokx]

But demanding a bigger pay increase than pretty much anyone else in the entire country is harder to justify

Your local MP got a £2200 pay rise this year.

 

[Siggy1980s]

Your local MP got a £2200 pay rise this year.

I'd take that, added onto my basic salary.

 

[nedchester]

I think this is your own personal fantasy wish list, as someone who very evidently dislikes your operational colleagues, in the industry you have (for some reason) chosen to work in…

You might think that but the railway does need to modernise and many of the suggestions I make have already been proposed by others in the industry.

There railway DOES need to modernise and the current proposals (GBR) is an ideal opportunity to implement the proposals. I have crossed swords with you before regarding the Tory Government introducing legislation to combat rail industrial action but have been dismissed. The headline in today's Telegraph (and apparently in the Mail) show this is closer than you think. The unions need to be pragmatic.

Oddly, ASLEF actually want Sunday's in the working week which actually means MORE drivers. DOO/DCO attracts higher payments for drivers. What's not to like to drivers such as yourself?

I'd be more concerned if I worked in a rural ticket office though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2022 ==

Your local MP got a £2200 pay rise this year.

I've got an excellent local MP who does a lot in the community.

I note a lot of people having a go at MPs but most are decent people trying to do the best for their constituents. There are a number that we may despise but who do we blame for that? Perhaps the voters who put them there!

 

[Fokx]

You might think that but the railway does need to modernise and many of the suggestions I make have already been proposed by others in the industry.

There railway DOES need to modernise and the current proposals (GBR) is an ideal opportunity to implement the proposals. I have crossed swords with you before regarding the Tory Government introducing legislation to combat rail industrial action but have been dismissed. The headline in today's Telegraph (and apparently in the Mail) show this is closer than you think. The unions need to be pragmatic.

Oddly, ASLEF actually want Sunday's in the working week which actually means MORE drivers. DOO/DCO attracts higher payments for drivers. What's not to like to drivers such as yourself?

I'd be more concerned if I worked in a rural ticket office though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2022 ==


I've got an excellent local MP who does a lot in the community.

I note a lot of people having a go at MPs but most are decent people trying to do the best for their constituents. There are a number that we may despise but who do we blame for that? Perhaps the voters who put them there!

I’m not having a go at MPs, merely pointing out that they got a £2200 pay rise this year whilst they treasury states there’s no money to pay other public sectors workers.

You might like your MP but the government are looking out for their own interests and not yours (who also works in the now partially public railway)

 

[Siggy1980s]

Regarding Sunday's in the working week. I'd be happy with that, if it was properly recompensed for the Sundays we are booked to work. That however, is not a payrise! My booked Sundays are worth about £12000 per year, so that needs adding to the basic salary if we do Sunday as working week. Still leaves the issue of no payrise though.....

 

[ungreat]

Well said. The majority of our colleagues who aren’t at the pointy end and on much lower salaries need to have their voices heard, especially S&T and track maintenance. We don’t want to be hearing of a disaster in less than a decade because of cutbacks on checks and therefore safety.

Austerity cuts have failed this country for over 12 years now; look at how the criminal justice system has deteriorated due to the police/courts/probation cuts etc. Thankfully though some on here won’t agree we have a vote. Just because your workers rights have been whittled down and you’ve not had a pay rise in years doesn’t mean we should accept the same.

Noticed how there's many track circuit failures and point failures of late? Are NR already instructed to cut costs?
Just my observation as a train driver

 

[dk1]

Regarding Sunday's in the working week. I'd be happy with that, if it was properly recompensed for the Sundays we are booked to work. That however, is not a payrise! My booked Sundays are worth about £12000 per year, so that needs adding to the basic salary if we do Sunday as working week. Still leaves the issue of no payrise though.....

I’m happy for Sunday in the working week too. As you say that £12000 would have to be included into the basic salary. This would then give a very nice increase in the hourly rate of pay

 

[choochoochoo]

The majority do not realise there is a lot of goodwill in the railway industry that will also be lost if work to rule comes in.

My diagrammed turn around times are such that if a train comes in late, then it should go out late. However, out of good will I am prepared to be a little quicker (at no expense to safety) and see that it usually leaves on time.

Likewise, my toiletless train means that I often wait until my PNB to use the facilities. I'll be sure to do a 10 minute walk to the nearest toilet at my turnaround point should we enter dispute at the slightest sign of needing a pee.

Or when my relief driver hasn't made it to the station, I've happily driven on to the next station to meet them there (provided it doesn't spoil my PNB).

These are just personal examples of goodwill. I'm sure other drivers can think of many. With all of this out of the window, and delays costing the industry 100s of pounds a minute. I'm sure they'll soon feel the pinch.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It's starting with NR, all the others who are trying to emotionally blackmail us, will pay attention when its their jobs....

Exactly, hence why I am choosing to stand alongside NR colleagues who will clearly be striking.

We are one big railway family, and it pains me than many people will vote no purely because it doesn't directly affect them at this point, meaning the DfT will see them as having a very weak or non-existant mandate to take action. Something which will mean they get a raw hand should the next phase of the GBR plan hit as I expect next year.

 

[Bantamzen]

The Union called the ballot. It's the members who will decide the action going forward, not the union. It's the employees vote and decision. Depending what we vote, the RMT facilitate our wishes.

As a member of a union for 35 years, and a rep for over 10 I am aware how it works. However the tone is set by the union themselves as I am sure you are aware.

Spot on. And when you look at how much drivers pay in taxes we are far from wealthy. I am genuinely squeezed at the minute in a number of areas, and I have and always will live within my means but things are getting a bit ridiculous now frankly. With inflation at 11 percent something has to give. Expecting us to take 0 percent pay rises which are actually in real terms are a loss isn't acceptable. We were working right through covid whilst others sat at home and yet most people in these jobs have still had pay rises!

Comments like that are not helpful. Millions of people took at least a 20% pay cut on furlough, many of whom were on near minimum wages. And remember those people who worked from home are exactly the ones your industry needs to get back, slagging them off isn't going to help matters.

 

[choochoochoo]

I see the CWU have some of their members taking action and have balloted the posties too.

Could all these unions work together and align their action to really show their members discontent.

I'm sure there's plenty of other sectors out there who are equally disgruntled with the way their terms and conditions are being eroded.

 

[Bluejays]

I wouldn't want to see anyone sacked, instead of that how about retraining her as a signaller put her in a signalbox - force a roster change on her, get her up 7 mornings in a row (including Sat/Sun) for less money than she earned on her previous roster let her have a day off then give her 7 more afternoons to work (including Sat/Sun) before treating her to a weekend off , and don't give her a pay rise indefinitely and withhold a bonus she was entitled to from her.

I like that idea !

 

[Siggy1980s]

As a member of a union for 35 years, and a rep for over 10 I am aware how it works. However the tone is set by the union themselves as I am sure you are aware.


Comments like that are not helpful. Millions of people took at least a 20% pay cut on furlough, many of whom were on near minimum wages. And remember those people who worked from home are exactly the ones your industry needs to get back, slagging them off isn't going to help matters.

I know quite a few who got furloughed. They all got other jobs, be it part time or full, while also claiming their 80%.

I'd have loved to be furloughed and get 80%. No petrol costs, money saved on eating at work, no public transport costs, and just not having to work.

 

[Class 170101]

Your local MP got a £2200 pay rise this year.

And thats the insulting part about it, they get one whilst telling other public sector workers they can't have a pay rise.

I've got an excellent local MP who does a lot in the community.

I note a lot of people having a go at MPs but most are decent people trying to do the best for their constituents. There are a number that we may despise but who do we blame for that? Perhaps the voters who put them there!

You are lucky to have a good MP, mine is a waste of space and sends out standard letters to issues and concerns raised, far more interested in representing his party rather than his constituents.

 

[nedchester]

I see the CWU have some of their members taking action and have balloted the posties too.

Could all these unions work together and align their action to really show their members discontent.

I'm sure there's plenty of other sectors out there who are equally disgruntled with the way their terms and conditions are being eroded.

And watch the Tories come down on the unions like a ton of bricks putting in more stringent anti union laws.

Johnson and his cronies are looking for a populist dispute to help their flagging poll ratings. Remember the majority of the country aren’t members of unions and won’t support mass action.

Chances are a “General Strike” will be just the ticket to enable the Tories to win the next election and then reek more havoc. Of course looking at the Covid thread there will be many on here that would think that would be a good thing………be careful what you wish for.

 

[43096]

I’m not having a go at MPs

Yes you are.

, merely pointing out that they got a £2200 pay rise this year whilst they treasury states there’s no money to pay other public sectors workers.

You might like your MP but the government are looking out for their own interests and not yours (who also works in the now partially public railway)

MPs' pay is set by an independent pay review body, which conveniently gets forgotten (presumably because it is inconvenient for the agenda the poster has) whenever someone references MPs getting an increase.

 

[BrummieBobby]

Noticed how there's many track circuit failures and point failures of late? Are NR already instructed to cut costs?
Just my observation as a train driver

It isn't just drivers concerned by the state of the infrastructure; of the areas that I work, all currently have known, reported faults and some form of degraded working. Cutting the number of maintenance staff / patrolling will only worsen the situation further.

 

[Bluejays]

Agreed about the government not particularly caring about key workers - but equally the railway did receive far more support than road and air transport. They were fully intending to use this as a negotiation ploy

Personally I think it would have been a damn good negotiation ploy, but they left it too late. They should have gone over the heads of the unions, offered rail staff a 2/3 % rise and then maybe another few percent or a bonus scheme based on some kind of productivity measure, wrrher that was ticket clips or whatever. If they'd have done that 6 months ago and explained it in the context of the support they'd given to the industry, then I think people would have accepted it.

Unfortunately for some reason the government has just let things slide. They've made no offer whatsoever or even really mentioned pay. It seems like the chief execs at most of the toc's have no idea whatsoever what is going on either. I feel a bit sorry for them to be honest, they're looking at major industrial action from their staff, yet the decision makers who control the contract won't give them any info they can give to their staff.

I'm never going to be a fan of the rmt, but I can't really see what other options the unions have at the moment.

 

[43066]

Oddly, ASLEF actually want Sunday's in the working week which actually means MORE drivers. DOO/DCO attracts higher payments for drivers. What's not to like to drivers such as yourself?

You have no concept of driving trains for a living, so please don’t ask those of us doing the job “what’s not to like” about any aspect of it. I’ll leave the grade before I drive DOO trains again.

Can I ask, are your Sundays inside?

And watch the Tories come down on the unions like a ton of bricks putting in more stringent anti union laws.

Johnson and his cronies are looking for a populist dispute to help their flagging poll ratings. Remember the majority of the country aren’t members of unions and won’t support mass action.

Chances are a “General Strike” will be just the ticket to enable the Tories to win the next election and then reek more havoc. Of course look at the Covid thread there will be many on here that would think that would be a good thing………be careful what you wish for.

I probably agree with you here. Much as it sickens me.

 

[ungreat]

It isn't just drivers concerned by the state of the infrastructure; of the areas that I work, all currently have known, reported faults and some form of degraded working. Cutting the number of maintenance staff / patrolling will only worsen the situation further.

Agreed mate. It begins I fear

 

[nedchester]

You have no concept of driving trains for a living, so please don’t ask those of us doing the job “what’s not to like” about any aspect of it. I’ll leave the grade before I drive DOO trains again.

Can I ask, are your Sundays inside?



I probably agree with you here. Much as it sickens me.

Of course my Sundays aren’t inside but I’d happily work them for a day off in the week (for no extra pay). The point is that an industry that is 24/7 needs to not rely on volunteers.

DOO has been a recognised method of working since 1982 and now with many more safety features now than back then (not just a crap mirror at the end of the platform). Plenty of train drivers operate trains that way even if you don’t like it.

 

[The Planner]

Noticed how there's many track circuit failures and point failures of late? Are NR already instructed to cut costs?
Just my observation as a train driver

In a word, yes.

 

[High Dyke]

It isn't just drivers concerned by the state of the infrastructure; of the areas that I work, all currently have known, reported faults and some form of degraded working. Cutting the number of maintenance staff / patrolling will only worsen the situation further.

Absolutely.

For those that aren't aware. Network Rail tried to force through many changes for maintenance colleagues a few years ago. Some changes did get introduced, but many didn't at the time. They've since tried to push those changes through, dressed up as modernisation, at various times. Examples of this have been introducing more night working for maintenance; reducing teams from 3 - 2, but multi-skilling of staff; reducing physical track patrolling by increased use of monitoring trains. For signallers the introduction of the digital railway (in cab signalling) on main-line routes would see a reduction in their numbers.

It is acknowledged that an increase to night working brings a risk to an individuals health and well-being. Increased remote monitoring has seen an increase in the amount of faults. However, despite the best efforts of Network Rail, line blockage irregularities, or even more importantly -the amount of track workers being killed or seriously injured still occur. The railway is already short in many areas of frontline staff, the very ones being balloted for action. New signallers aren't able to be trained fast enough to cover the shortfall in many areas, or address the fact a number of retirements due shortly (certainly in the area I work). Maintenance colleagues are already seeing teams cut to a minimum, but expected to cover the same amount of repairs to track and signalling.

 

[choochoochoo]

In a word, yes.

Yes, I've noticed a lot more track defects and track circuit failures recently.

I hope it doesn't take another disaster before they realise how they can't cut back on this essential function.

 

[muz379]

Of course my Sundays aren’t inside but I’d happily work them for a day off in the week (for no extra pay). The point is that an industry that is 24/7 needs to not rely on volunteers

And that is the value you place on your current roster and Sunday .

But a lot of grades on the railway currently get paid a premium for Sunday working meaning that Sundays are more valuable , it's not just a case of bringing the Sundays in and giving another weekday off for the same wage . Not to mention some haven't worked Sundays for decades so would rightly want compensating if this was to change.

I agree a 24/7 railway needs staffing correctly but it's not the job of unions to propose changes to conditions that is the job of companies.

 

[Ex-controller]

I would agree with the over optimism. Although the 'no' voters tend to keep quiet, the impression I get is that the people who should have worked harder at school are a bit more militant now than they were before that 'communication'.

‘The people who should have worked harder at school…’.

Good grief.

 

[nedchester]

And that is the value you place on your current roster and Sunday .

But a lot of grades on the railway currently get paid a premium for Sunday working meaning that Sundays are more valuable , it's not just a case of bringing the Sundays in and giving another weekday off for the same wage . Not to mention some haven't worked Sundays for decades so would rightly want compensating if this was to change.

I agree a 24/7 railway needs staffing correctly but it's not the job of unions to propose changes to conditions that is the job of companies.

As I said earlier this should have been sorted out years ago but the privatised companies kicked the can down the road.

I do fear that if push comes to shove the Government will be saying “take it or leave it”. Pragmatism is needed here.

People say they’ll “leave it” but how many will be able to get a similar wage to that they currently earn. I know when I was dissatisfied in a previous career it was a hard choice to leave a secure well paid job to a less secure and less well paid job.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm somewhat confused by the rhetoric about strikes. We are suggesting don't strike. Because the public will hate you. It plays into Boris hands (frankly what wouldn't? The man is a master manipulator. You don't honestly think he would find a way to pin blame on workers for taking their days off, do you?) It will encourage anti Union laws. With this thought process, you've basically created his anti Union law yourself and imposed it, without him having to do anything. The law has been on the table since the Queen speech in 2020 I believe? They've just sat on it ready to use as a threat. That law was coming in regardless of what the RMT or any Union did. The government hates you if you strike for any reason. Look how they treated the junior doctors to see that. My opinion is to just shrug my shoulders. You're bringing it in anyway.

Personally, I'm of the impression that if the only way we can move forward as a society in an economic sense is to have to strike to even keep up with affording basic items, then we as a society have failed. We have allowed the system to fail us. How many more times do we have to see all these companies put their prices up (with inflation) quoting increased costs (of which staff is one) when that same staffing cost never gets the increase they claim to have provided? It's a nonsense. Why is a company like o2 taking into account a measure of inflation that includes bread, milk and beer (this may not be accurate but you get the point) to increase their service cost by? Why do we allow ourselves to be treated in such a way? I just don't get it.

On this basis I have voted for action. I would however prefer work to rule.

 

[Class 170101]

For those that aren't aware. Network Rail tried to force through many changes for maintenance colleagues a few years ago. Some changes did get introduced, but many didn't at the time. They've since tried to push those changes through, dressed up as modernisation, at various times. Examples of this have been introducing more night working for maintenance; reducing teams from 3 - 2, but multi-skilling of staff; reducing physical track patrolling by increased use of monitoring trains. For signallers the introduction of the digital railway (in cab signalling) on main-line routes would see a reduction in their numbers.

But why are we still relying on the Mark I eyeball to walk the track its madness. Monitoring track conditions should have moved on from this method of working by now. Removing the Mark I eyeball from the track means it has less chance of being run over.