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For those forum members planning to vote "yes" in any ballot regarding industrial action that includes a strike, what is your main motivation?
Is it pay given the general inflationary rate at the moment? Or for you is that just the tip of an iceberg? Curious to see what answers are out there.
What cannot be denied is that the railway is costing the government more than it has been in recent history, so it would be interesting to see what any response would be to a national strike politically; somehow I don't think the outcome would be capitulation on the DfT/Treasury's/Conservatives part so I can see it being a right mess as I think enough RMT members will vote yes. As other media sites have alluded to, whilst the RMT are perhaps more trigger-happy historically on the industrial action than other unions, many other public sectors are really not far behind at this point.
3rd year of no pay increases. And supporting our Pway/S&T lads against job cuts. I have never known morale be so low, and everyone so hacked off in NR, in general.
RPI is 11% and every single one of my outgoings has gone up, every year for the last 3 years.
It cannot continue.
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It was a success for railway employees whose wages shot up as a result. The wages are now falling behind again.
I think in a forum like this, it is often forgotten that RMT membership is made up of members of the public who just happen to work for the railway. As railway employees are mostly union members, to which they pay money, then of course they will for the most part, want the union to fight for pay rises etc.
I suspect there are not many PWAY/S&T, even Signallers on this forum, I wish there were, because then their side of the story might be heard against the Union Bashers and Enthusiasts who just care about whether the 0818 Sheffield to Leeds will run. I don't mean to sound offensive, but this Ballot is a legitimate one, and if the membership vote YES it should be respected, as a majority of 40000 people voting YES shouts that there is something very wrong in railway land.
And in reality, how many people would turn down the chance to fight for such things..... The Union Bashers are generally jealous UK citizens who work in a job with poor T&Cs and with no Union.
The railway is not brilliant T&Cs and Pay because the railway loves it's employees, they are good because they were fought for in years gone by. Modern day employees saying that it's not right to strike, should remember that.
Look at the ECML, particularly in terms of open access operators. They provide services to London which BR claimed were unviable, and the competition has driven down fares on the route.
If, as a previous poster wrote, "the talent pools are overflowing with applicants" why would employers (Governments) pay more or improve Ts&Cs?
An effectively nationalised railway has to compete for funding with other public services, some of which have staff shortages and a shortage of applicants. Surely the money is better spent on those?
A signaller getting a pay rise may be delaying his granny getting her hip replacement.
Frankly, as a signaller, public opinion does not concern me. Inflation is through the roof, pay rises have been witheld, cutting maintenance positions will have a detrimental effect on safety, at a time when NR are already understaffed on the operations front. I voted yes to strike and action short.
Speaking to people at my place, I have not heard anybody say they have voted no. The utterances from NR management have time and again antagonised the situation and, if anything, convinced those who were unsure to also vote yes.
I would be highly surprised if the result is not a big mandate for action.
Well quite frankly you should, you work for an industry that provides an essential service to the public. A service that can be replaced by other means for many people. So if the public perception is against, and you have a government itching to make huge savings through cuts, you might just want to sit up and take notice.
I'm speaking as someone who has 35 years in the public service, and someone who hasn't had an inflation matching pay rise for almost a decade. If our union called for a strike, and it is a possibility this year, I would not be so dismissive of public opinion, especially as the government is looking to save £35 billion a year in our sector. This is a government not afraid of making unpopular decisions, so if they get a whiff of the public being opposed to industrial action they will happily leap on it. Now is not a good time to play chicken with your careers.
A large proportion of the freight will happily run in the daytime you know. Given the passenger operators are going to be on strike as well that's not going to be too difficult.
Freight and a skeleton long distance passenger service on major routes in the daytime, nothing on secondary routes or early mornings and late evenings.
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A bus already runs between Buxton and Manchester Airport, it's not long distance. Lots of people use it end to end.
A significant amount of the freight I see if run during the period 2300-0500 purely by virtue of it starting its trip several hundred miles and hours previously.
I know freight operators loved the first lock down and more or less passengerless railway, but whichever way you look at it freight needs access 24/7.
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The government can ban strikes outright, but they can’t force us to train (if we’re not instructors, trainers or paid to do so), work out rest days or overtime.
Work to rule is the single most effective weapon in our arsenal, sadly our union is all for headlines at our expense!
Well quite frankly you should, you work for an industry that provides an essential service to the public. A service that can be replaced by other means for many people. So if the public perception is against, and you have a government itching to make huge savings through cuts, you might just want to sit up and take notice.
I'm speaking as someone who has 35 years in the public service, and someone who hasn't had an inflation matching pay rise for almost a decade. If our union called for a strike, and it is a possibility this year, I would not be so dismissive of public opinion, especially as the government is looking to save £35 billion a year in our sector. This is a government not afraid of making unpopular decisions, so if they get a whiff of the public being opposed to industrial action they will happily leap on it. Now is not a good time to play chicken with your careers.
Who is eager to sink to the bottom? By all means in future years chase the big rises, but right now as a country, world even there is a growing economic and energy crisis. Rail unions digging in for a fight with a government ready for a fight with the unions is nothing short of lunacy. This is not the 1970s, unions have to box a bit more clever instead of puffing their chests out and going hell for leather for nationwide strikes.
They need to read the room, the government is looking for deep cuts in public services. I've already alluded to the ones in the civil service above, and we've already seen big ticket projects scaled back. If the railways suddenly become more difficult to use, and the public walk away, guess where the treasury will be looking next?
Who is eager to sink to the bottom? By all means in future years chase the big rises, but right now as a country, world even there is a growing economic and energy crisis. Rail unions digging in for a fight with a government ready for a fight with the unions is nothing short of lunacy. This is not the 1970s, unions have to box a bit more clever instead of puffing their chests out and going hell for leather for nationwide strikes.
They need to read the room, the government is looking for deep cuts in public services. I've already alluded to the ones in the civil service above, and we've already seen big ticket projects scaled back. If the railways suddenly become more difficult to use, and the public walk away, guess where the treasury will be looking next?
The Union called the ballot. It's the members who will decide the action going forward, not the union. It's the employees vote and decision. Depending what we vote, the RMT facilitate our wishes.
For those forum members planning to vote "yes" in any ballot regarding industrial action that includes a strike, what is your main motivation?
Is it pay given the general inflationary rate at the moment? Or for you is that just the tip of an iceberg? Curious to see what answers are out there.
What cannot be denied is that the railway is costing the government more than it has been in recent history, so it would be interesting to see what any response would be to a national strike politically; somehow I don't think the outcome would be capitulation on the DfT/Treasury's/Conservatives part so I can see it being a right mess as I think enough RMT members will vote yes. As other media sites have alluded to, whilst the RMT are perhaps more trigger-happy historically on the industrial action than other unions, many other public sectors are really not far behind at this point.
I work in a booking office. I know my job is going (booking offices are a thing of the past sadly, oyster and covid killed it)- I haven't been in the job 5 years, and so seniority rules will have me out when the redundancies come. I want to stay on the railway, and a no compulsory redundancy agreement will help me do that.
I'm not bothered about a payrise, I'd rather have a job at the end of the day.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is the end of railway unions. They’ll be completely finished, as per the mining etc. unions of the 1980s. I’ll be voting no for strike action, and action short of a strike. I want to see the industry flourish, not price itself out of existence and relevance.
If a vote is passed I will respect it, I have little other option. But if industrial action takes places, I fully expect a wholesale fire and rehire. Most of the population will just say ‘oh’ and turn on their laptop instead for 18 months until replacements on half the wages are trained (allowing a drop in ticket prices too).
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is the end of railway unions. They’ll be completely finished, as per the mining etc. unions of the 1980s. I’ll be voting no for strike action, and action short of a strike. I want to see the industry flourish, not price itself out of existence and relevance.
If a vote is passed I will respect it, I have little other option. But if industrial action takes places, I fully expect a wholesale fire and rehire. Most of the population will just say ‘oh’ and turn on their laptop instead for 18 months until replacements on half the wages are trained (allowing a drop in ticket prices too).
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is the end of railway unions. They’ll be completely finished, as per the mining etc. unions of the 1980s. I’ll be voting no for strike action, and action short of a strike. I want to see the industry flourish, not price itself out of existence and relevance.
If a vote is passed I will respect it, I have little other option. But if industrial action takes places, I fully expect a wholesale fire and rehire. Most of the population will just say ‘oh’ and turn on their laptop instead for 18 months until replacements on half the wages are trained (allowing a drop in ticket prices too).
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is the end of railway unions. They’ll be completely finished, as per the mining etc. unions of the 1980s. I’ll be voting no for strike action, and action short of a strike. I want to see the industry flourish, not price itself out of existence and relevance.
If a vote is passed I will respect it, I have little other option. But if industrial action takes places, I fully expect a wholesale fire and rehire. Most of the population will just say ‘oh’ and turn on their laptop instead for 18 months until replacements on half the wages are trained (allowing a drop in ticket prices too).
There was 49 RMT ballots in 2020? And with half the year being in lockdown, I’m guessing this was lower than normal
What on earth can all the issues have been to issue 49 ballots? I wonder what the total number of strike ballots across all unions was, probably about 50?
If the intention was to destabilise the west through funding trade unions surely it would make sense to provide enough money for the unions to pay the workers to walk out and stay out for long running periods. The RMT generally don't provide strike pay . When I've seen other unions provide strike pay like for example unite with bus drivers it allows then to call members out on indefinite action not returning until the dispute is resolved , generally this helps encourage more members to join the strike as well .
It feels like only yesterday that Northern was like that. I think the result was essentially equivalent to Sunday timetables on Saturdays (some places a little better than that, some places a little worse) - which was poor and definitely lead to overcrowding and passenger dissatisfaction, but in my opinion fell short of making the railway actually unusuable.
That was just traincrew though, I don't think signalling was affected.
I have to say, if I’m balloted, I will vote against.
It’s the wrong time for any kind of “‘national strike” for various reasons, not least because of some of the points made in the Telegraph article above. I really, really hope it doesn’t come to it.
Much better, surely, to keep the powder dry, allow passenger numbers to continue to recover and negotiate harder in a year or so?
Oh most of us have mortgages and we'd quite like to;
1- pay them comfortably
2- have a job to pay the mortgage, not get made redundant in the name of NR cuts,
Its precisely because I DO have a mortgage to pay that some kind of action has to be taken! You are obviously more comfortable than me despite us having the same job and employer. 3 years of no pay rise, and who knows how many more if we all just bend over.
Work to rule is I suspect what will happen, and Shapps daft plans to outlaw strikes or whatever won't have any effect. With work to rule, certain TOCs will be utterly screwed and they know it. They are probably hoping members go down the striking route as its far easier for them and they save money.
Its precisely because I DO have a mortgage to pay that some kind of action has to be taken! You are obviously more comfortable than me despite us having the same job and employer. 3 years of no pay rise, and who knows how many more if we all just bend over.
Work to rule is I suspect what will happen, and Shapps daft plans to outlaw strikes or whatever won't have any effect. With work to rule, certain TOCs will be utterly screwed and they know it. They are probably hoping members go down the striking route as its far easier for them and they save money.
I am deeply concerned at the level of support from the railway staff on here for strike or other action, if this is representative of the rail industry as a whole there is clearly huge dissatisfaction, some of which, eg short staffing requiring excessive overtime, is understandable. But demanding a bigger pay increase than pretty much anyone else in the entire country is harder to justify; Yes, of course inflation means a pay cut in real terms, but that applies to everyone, including pensioners who have no choice but to live with the situation. And the question has to be asked, again, where would the extra money to fund large pay increases come from ?
Do people believe that government, when strikes start, is going to concede whatever the RMT or ASLEF demands ? I fear very much the opposite, given how utterly irrelevant to a huge proportion the railway is nowadays the Tories will simply say carry on lads. Contrary to what the RMT says the country will not grind to a halt because there are no trains, it didn't in 1994 and it certainly won't now.
I am deeply concerned at the level of support from the railway staff on here for strike or other action, if this is representative of the rail industry as a whole there is clearly huge dissatisfaction, some of which, eg short staffing requiring excessive overtime, is understandable. But demanding a bigger pay increase than pretty much anyone else in the entire country is harder to justify; Yes, of course inflation means a pay cut in real terms, but that applies to everyone, including pensioners who have no choice but to live with the situation. And the question has to be asked, again, where would the extra money to fund large pay increases come from ?
Do people believe that government, when strikes start, is going to concede whatever the RMT or ASLEF demands ? I fear very much the opposite, given how utterly irrelevant to a huge proportion the railway is nowadays the Tories will simply say carry on lads. Contrary to what the RMT says the country will not grind to a halt because there are no trains, it didn't in 1994 and it certainly won't now.
Sadly, you are wasting your time. When 95% of passengers and 90% of freight is carried by means other than the railways in the UK, anyone believing that a rail strike will cripple the country is only fooling himself.
I am deeply concerned at the level of support from the railway staff on here for strike or other action, if this is representative of the rail industry as a whole there is clearly huge dissatisfaction, some of which, eg short staffing requiring excessive overtime, is understandable. But demanding a bigger pay increase than pretty much anyone else in the entire country is harder to justify; Yes, of course inflation means a pay cut in real terms, but that applies to everyone, including pensioners who have no choice but to live with the situation. And the question has to be asked, again, where would the extra money to fund large pay increases come from ?
Do people believe that government, when strikes start, is going to concede whatever the RMT or ASLEF demands ? I fear very much the opposite, given how utterly irrelevant to a huge proportion the railway is nowadays the Tories will simply say carry on lads. Contrary to what the RMT says the country will not grind to a halt because there are no trains, it didn't in 1994 and it certainly won't now.
The current government is probably the weakest I've ever known. Taking on the unions may just be a step too far for an already unpopular PM. Contrary to popular belief im not sure rail staff are quite as hated as the Daily Mail like to believe and this may just be the end of Boris. Here's hoping so. And to think plenty of working class people "lent" the buffoon their vote in order to push Brexit through. Those same people will be wandering now why on earth they lent him their support. One things for sure, the Tories won't be getting many votes from rail staff at the next GE. They are in for a shock on that front and the railway is a very big employer...
Something the Conservative party perhaps need to remember, even if Johnson himself is too ignorant to realise this. My new local Lib-Dem council is just settling itself in…
At some point the Conservatives are going to have to come to terms with the fact that an election will have to happen, and they are simply not going to do as well as they did in 2019. Certainly if I were Labour I’d be throwing *everything* at Uxbridge, in the hope of getting rid of this utter joke of a politician / prime minister.
The Conservative party need to remember they lost three elections, failed to get a majority in another, scraped the one after that, and lost that in the one after. Brexit won’t be an issue next time round, so there’s absolutely no guarantee of a repeat of 2019, especially with all the economic indicators being pretty dire (even if some of this is down to external factors).
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is the end of railway unions. They’ll be completely finished, as per the mining etc. unions of the 1980s. I’ll be voting no for strike action, and action short of a strike. I want to see the industry flourish, not price itself out of existence and relevance.
If a vote is passed I will respect it, I have little other option. But if industrial action takes places, I fully expect a wholesale fire and rehire. Most of the population will just say ‘oh’ and turn on their laptop instead for 18 months until replacements on half the wages are trained (allowing a drop in ticket prices too).
A pay increase for rail workers that matches inflation has to be paid for somehow.
If such a pay increase is negotiated this year in response to the strikes, then it will likely lead to a larger fares increase in the new year.
This in turn will drive customers away from the railways unless they have no choice but to use them. Even commuters, who are the bread and butter of many TOCs, particularly in London & The South East, have the option of working from home. Thus they have no need to buy expensive annual season tickets which give a boost to the cash flow of any TOC.
Reduced demand for rail travel will inevitably lead to cuts in services, as well as less investment in the network for the future.
I am old enough to remember the Winter of Discontent, which led directly to the election of Margaret Thatcher as Prime Minister. If the unions overplay their hand in terms of strikes, then public opinion will turn against them, and probably shore up the Conservative vote at the next election.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is the end of railway unions. They’ll be completely finished, as per the mining etc. unions of the 1980s. I’ll be voting no for strike action, and action short of a strike. I want to see the industry flourish, not price itself out of existence and relevance.
If a vote is passed I will respect it, I have little other option. But if industrial action takes places, I fully expect a wholesale fire and rehire. Most of the population will just say ‘oh’ and turn on their laptop instead for 18 months until replacements on half the wages are trained (allowing a drop in ticket prices too).
Wholesale fire and hire is coming under GBR, regardless of the result this week. That is where the vast majority of the cuts will come after this attack on NR. Be ready for a fight
A pay increase for rail workers that matches inflation has to be paid for somehow.
If such a pay increase is negotiated this year in response to the strikes, then it will likely lead to a larger fares increase in the new year.
This in turn will drive customers away from the railways unless they have no choice but to use them. Even commuters, who are the bread and butter of many TOCs, particularly in London & The South East, have the option of working from home. Thus they have no need to buy expensive annual season tickets which give a boost to the cash flow of any TOC.
Reduced demand for rail travel will inevitably lead to cuts in services, as well as less investment in the network for the future.
I am old enough to remember the Winter of Discontent, which led directly to the election of Margaret Thatcher as Prime Minister. If the unions overplay their hand in terms of strikes, then public opinion will turn against them, and probably shore up the Conservative vote at the next election.
I wouldn't worry about driving customers away. Despite what the propaganda is making out (the Mail et al need to follow the Tory narrative that no one is using the railways) the trains are as busy as ever in my experience. In fact on the Western intercity routes we can barely cope with demand. The headlines about 60 percent of people compared to pre pandemic (or whatever figure it was) is very selective and not really a true picture for the vast majority of the railway.
I wouldn't worry about driving customers away. Despite what the propaganda is making out (the Mail et al need to follow the Tory narrative that no one is using the railways) the trains are as busy as ever in my experience. In fact on the Western intercity routes we can barely cope with demand. The headlines about 60 percent of people compared to pre pandemic (or whatever figure it was) is very selective and not really a true picture for the vast majority of the railway.
Well over 80% now in my neck of the woods & that’s with a very large proportion of London commuters. The regional routes have exceeded pre-Covid already. They where always going to come back.
Wholesale fire and hire is coming under GBR, regardless of the result this week. That is where the vast majority of the cuts will come after this attack on NR. Be ready for a fight
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