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Euston capacity proposal

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Basil Jet

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Despite Boris's latest noises, I don't think Crossrail 2 is going to happen. And Yet HS2 looks like it will, and will dump loads of extra people into Euston, with nowhere to go.

It is said that London Underground's Northern Line cannot be split into two lines without a major rebuilding of Camden Town station, because of the large number of people who would need to change trains there. However, such a rebuilding would be a wasted expense in the long term, because people change their place of residence on average every seven years, and I think change their place of work even more frequently. As soon as the lines were split, any people changing residence or job would plan their new commute around the new tube map, and so after a decade, the vast majority of current Northern Line commuters would either work and live on the Bank Line or work and live on the Charing Cross Line, and the glut of people changing at Camden Town would have been a short lived phenomenon.

There is a nearly free solution. Declare the line to be two separate lines - a Bank Line to Barnet with a "limited" service to Edgware, and a Charing Cross Line to Edgware with a "limited" service to Barnet. The map would give each routes south of Camden its own colour, and each line north of Camden would be a double stripe with one of the colours dashed (as used to happen between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge when the Piccadilly Line had a limited service supplementing the main service of Metropolitan Line trains). The timetables would not change, still providing 50% service to each branch from each trunk, so there would be no overcrowding at Camden. The stigma of limited service shown on the map would affect people's perceptions, and anyone changing residence or job would avoid planning their commute around the supposedly limited service, and thus journey patterns would gradually to shift to match the map. After three years you bring in a new timetable with 60% following the main routes and 40% following the limited routes. The gradual shift of journey patterns continues, so every three years you can switch to 66% main and 33% limited, then 75% main and 25% limited, then 80% main and 20% limited, and finally fifteen years after splitting the lines on the map you can split the lines completely, without ever overloading Camden or rebuilding it.

Since the consecutive trains following each other on the main routes could be closer together than the trains going in different directions, the frequency could gradually increase as the proportion of following pairs increased, until the final separate lines could run significantly higher frequencies than at present at both of the platform pairs at Euston, significantly increasing the ability to absorb the passengers from HS2, without having used one shovel.
 
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Starmill

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How can you be so sure that just changing the map and the signs would actually put people off changing trains at Camden Town? The whole point is that long term there's an actual need to upgrade the station at Camden Town to provide the necessary capacity for people travelling to and from there, and the possibility of people changing trains. Unless your proposal is to declare Camden Town two different stations and try to physically separate them I don't think this will have a sufficient impact.
 

507020

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a Bank Line to Barnet with a "limited" service to Edgware, and a Charing Cross Line to Edgware with a "limited" service to Barnet.
I only have 4 questions.

How do you decide that the Bank Branch goes to Barnet and the Charing Cross Branch goes to Edgware?

Which one goes to Morden and which one goes to Battersea Power Station Station and/or Clapham Junction should that line be built?

And what goes to Mill Hill East?

Also what do you do during the full closure of either the Bank or the Charing Cross branches, as ended last week? Would all services be diverted over what would then be a separate line entirely?
How can you be so sure that just changing the map and the signs would actually put people off changing trains at Camden Town? The whole point is that long term there's an actual need to upgrade the station at Camden Town to provide the necessary capacity for people travelling to and from there, and the possibility of people changing trains. Unless your proposal is to declare Camden Town two different stations and try to physically separate them I don't think this will have a sufficient impact.
Could you split the station into 2 and declare half to simply be “Camden” or “Camden Market” or similar and the other to remain Camden Town?

Is the issue at Camden Town entirely based around the lack of passenger circulation space as at Bank, rather than being anything to do with the track layout?
 

SynthD

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It is said that London Underground's Northern Line cannot be split into two lines without a major rebuilding of Camden Town station, because of the large number of people who would need to change trains there. However, such a rebuilding would be a wasted expense in the long term, because people change their place of residence on average every seven years, and I think change their place of work even more frequently. As soon as the lines were split, any people changing residence or job would plan their new commute around the new tube map, and so after a decade, the vast majority of current Northern Line commuters would either work and live on the Bank Line or work and live on the Charing Cross Line, and the glut of people changing at Camden Town would have been a short lived phenomenon.

The timetables would not change, still providing 50% service to each branch from each trunk, so there would be no overcrowding at Camden. The stigma of limited service shown on the map would affect people's perceptions, and anyone changing residence or job would avoid planning their commute around the supposedly limited service, and thus journey patterns would gradually to shift to match the map. After … fifteen years after splitting the lines on the map you can split the lines completely, without ever overloading Camden or rebuilding it.
This sounds to be unsafe. You require people to change for the seven years, without space to change. Camden would be overloaded.
How do you decide that the Bank Branch goes to Barnet and the Charing Cross Branch goes to Edgware?

Which one goes to Morden and which one goes to Battersea Power Station Station and/or Clapham Junction should that line be built?

It is defined by depots. Morden on one line and Golders Green on the other.
 

Basil Jet

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This sounds to be unsafe. You require people to change for the seven years, without space to change. Camden would be overloaded.

The shift would be gradual. People would always know that their "limited" service train was following the two main route trains, so they would mostly wait for it rather than change at Camden. But as they changed job and residence, the proportion needing the main services would rise, and the proportion needing the limited service would fall, and the timetable would be changed to reflect that.
 
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