Eight new cities to mark Platinum Jubilee

[AlterEgo]

I've been there too, in the late 80s. Like a small town, if I remember right - but with a big cathedral and surrounding green area.

That’s exactly it. A village with a cathedral. It’s lovely.

 

[hexagon789]

A small and very quaint country village with a bit of a "surfer" vibe. Lovely place though rather out of the way to visit!

You can always Google Streetview it!

I'll add it to the list!

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That’s exactly it. A village with a cathedral. It’s lovely.

I've seen a picture of the cathedral, and it does indeed look very pretty.

 

[Runningaround]

With MK it's about time (I would say that, but it really is).

Some of the others seem a bit strange. Wrexham is a small and very scruffy town. I suppose it's about regeneration to some extent? Colchester and Donny are probably justified, though it's odd that there's no interest in returning the incorrectly taken city status from Rochester (lost due to an administrative error).

Yet the ones I think that would be obvious candidates, such as Shrewsbury, Bournemouth and Reading, don't feature.

It's worth noting by the way that Bangor is the one in Northern Ireland - Bangor in North Wales was already one.

It's up to the towns to apply if they haven't then it's no loss to them.
Size isn't everything St Asaph got City status reinstated.
Wrexham is North Wales biggest, it's the birthplace of Welsh football as are the towns and villages within it's borough some the earliest clubs, it is the centre for services for a very large part of the country and it is the most important Welsh Town North of the M4.
If you vouch for Reading and MK then Telford has as much shout as Shrewsbury which might have a shout on history but it's losing a lot to the new bigger town within its own county and is getting increasingly dominated by Birmingham.

 

[Crossover]

MK is one of those places that I've always kind of assumed was already a city.

Agreed - many people I know have referred to it as a city before

 

[hst43102]

All this begs the question - what difference does it make to an urban area whether it's a town or a city?

 

[JamesT]

Will Scotrail have to redo their branding on their Inter7City services now there are 8?

 

[Runningaround]

All this begs the question - what difference does it make to an urban area whether it's a town or a city?

Nothing. But the Mayor and Council get to change a load of signs stationery etc and have new note paper to sign.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Will Scotrail have to redo their branding on their Inter7City services now there are 8?

Do any HSTs stop there?

 

[DarloRich]

Agreed - many people I know have referred to it as a city before

incorrectly - now my pedantry has been spoiled.

Nothing. But the Mayor and Council get to change a load of signs stationery etc and have new note paper to sign.

and anew council tax bill

 

[Runningaround]

incorrectly - now my pedantry has been spoiled.

and anew council tax bill

Anyone now the going rate for a City Mayor, Executive and bin man over a Town one. It might explain why when ''those in the street'' say ''who cares'' and officials are fanatically supportive.

And the ''City Of Culture'' this year many aren't even cities some aren't even towns but counties. What with Wrexham applying for both it'd look a bit stupid if they had one without the other.

 

[AlterEgo]

All this begs the question - what difference does it make to an urban area whether it's a town or a city?

Civic pride and a bit of chest puffing.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I can't think of anywhere less like a city than Milton Keynes. Cities have history, cathedrals, an interesting city centre and the like. Milton Keynes is just a big a modern hotch potch on the M1 and WCML with none of these things.

And Wrexham's only claim to fame seems to be Pontcysyllte Aqueduct. While the aqueduct is in Wrexham County Borough for administrative purposes, it is nowhere near the town of Wrexham. It stands between Ruabon and Llangollen. It is a bit like claiming Keighley is in Bradford or Leigh is in Wigan.

Historically when HM The Queen grants charters to new cities, she grant equal numbers to the four countries of the UK. However there is hardly anywhere substantial left in Wales or Northern Ireland which isn't a city already. So at least, on this occasion, she has restricted Wales, NI and Scotland to one new city each and given three places to England.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The same has been true of all the other locations: stoke is a city, but not the rest of the wider area. Brighton is a city, but Hove is not, even though they are managed by the same unitary authority. I believe it's also why some of the vaguer areas (wasn't there some sort of "South West Scotland" approach?) haven't got an outcome.

My understanding of Brighton's City status was that the status is effectively bestowed on both Brighton and Hove collectively, but not on either on their own. Effectively that the Local Authority is in possession of the city status. I'd always thought that Stoke-on-Trent was in a similar position: the city status belonging to the five towns collectively but not to any of them on their own.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My understanding of Brighton's City status was that the status is effectively bestowed on both Brighton and Hove collectively, but not on either on their own. Effectively that the Local Authority is in possession of the city status. I'd always thought that Stoke-on-Trent was in a similar position: the city status belonging to the five towns collectively but not to any of them on their own.

I did a quick read of the Wiki article on St Asaph and it too stated that it is normally bestowed on the local authority, so in MK's case I guess it will be the whole unitary including the rural bit, Olney etc.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I did a quick read of the Wiki article on St Asaph and it too stated that it is normally bestowed on the local authority, so in MK's case I guess it will be the whole unitary including the rural bit, Olney etc.

One of many reasons I'm glad that the idea of Huddersfield getting city status isn't popular... the status would presumably belong to Kirklees Council meaning that the "city of Huddersfield" would stretch as far as the IKEA near Leeds and include the towns of Batley, Dewsbury and Holmfirth! Renaming the football team would not go down well either!

 

[najaB]

Wasn't Disneyland in Florida legally a city until recently?

Pedant corner: Disney World is in Florida, the others are lands.

And it wasn't a city, but rather the whole area containing the Disney parks is/was the Reedy Creek Improvement District which meant that, in return for certain tax breaks, the Walt Disney Corporation took on the role of council. They were responsible for sanitation, fire service, etc.

The Florida state government recently passed politically-motivated (in the worst possible way) legislation to dissolve the RCID as of June next year, but it was only after it passed that they realised this exposes Florida to several billion dollars worth of liabilities, and will increase the land tax for residents of the area by at least 25%.

 

[DelayRepay]

I can't think of anywhere less like a city than Milton Keynes. Cities have history, cathedrals, an interesting city centre and the like. Milton Keynes is just a big a modern hotch potch on the M1 and WCML with none of these things.

I live in MK and I agree. Other cities I've lived in and visited have had proper city centres. We've got a shopping centre, office buildings and a load of car parks! I don't feel like it has an proper identity in the way other cities do, perhaps because so many people have moved into the area rather than being born and raised here.

 

[duncombec]

My understanding of Brighton's City status was that the status is effectively bestowed on both Brighton and Hove collectively, but not on either on their own. Effectively that the Local Authority is in possession of the city status. I'd always thought that Stoke-on-Trent was in a similar position: the city status belonging to the five towns collectively but not to any of them on their own.

Interesting - I was always under the impression that it was Brighton alone, but you're right: the letters patent was specifically issued in the name of "Brighton and Hove". So as you say, the area as a whole has city status, but the residents of Hove can't go around saying they are a city, as though the City of Hove exists.
Stoke is similar, but possibly helped by the fact the towns joined in 1910 and status was granted in 1925.

I did a quick read of the Wiki article on St Asaph and it too stated that it is normally bestowed on the local authority, so in MK's case I guess it will be the whole unitary including the rural bit, Olney etc.

As with all things involving the British "constitution", it seems to depend on exactly what is asked for as to exactly what is granted.

Rochester lost, but Bath and Hereford retained, city status because they did not, or did, appoint charter trustees. Canterbury and Lancaster do extend over the entire borough, one granted "since time immemorial", the other granted specifically, but again, it is the area as a whole that has the status - Lancaster can claim to be a city as the seat of the district, but Morecombe cannot purely by being part of the area.
In other cases, Parishes have the status, hence why Lichfield and Chichester are limited to the parish, and not the surrounding district (does Lancaster have a town council?). Ripon is also parish controlled, which is why there is no "city of Harrogate" (the district it's in). St Asaph is a community (the Welsh equivalent of Parish), and the map on the Wiki page shows just how small the area is - again, it has been granted to St Asaph, not Denbighshire at large. Southwark, by contrast, was turned down because it has no major feature or homogenous area (for want of better description)

The change seems to be part of the decreasing number of local authority areas - it being a long time since we had corporations, Urban District Councils, etc., and the local government areas being larger mean the area with city status is, by default, larger. As such, it will depend on the wording of the application - it could be granted to the district as a whole, but you still won't be able to claim (if you had any desire to!) that you live in the city of Bletchley - just Bletchley, part of the City of MK.

Unfortunately, the most recent idea to help Medway Council (if they want helping) regain city status for Rochester, namely the formation of a Town Council, was turned down. The leader of the council has already been on local radio this morning telling us they'll have another go...

(Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_status_in_the_United_Kingdom / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_United_Kingdom)

 

[DarloRich]

I can't think of anywhere less like a city than Milton Keynes. Cities have history, cathedrals, an interesting city centre and the like. Milton Keynes is just a big a modern hotch potch on the M1 and WCML with none of these things.

Aye, whatever. Funny, because I live in a village that has been here since the Romans popped up and down Watling Street.................

I might suggest you don't have a clue what you are talking about!

I live in MK and I agree. Other cities I've lived in and visited have had proper city centres. We've got a shopping centre, office buildings and a load of car parks! I don't feel like it has an proper identity in the way other cities do, perhaps because so many people have moved into the area rather than being born and raised here.

Because MK is set out in a different way to other towns. As I said my part is anything but as described but each to thier own.

 

[DelayRepay]

Because MK is set out in a different way to other towns. As I said my part is anything but as described but each to thier own.

But I was talking about the centre, which is in my view what defines a City. In my mind a City Centre should have public squares, a Town or City Hall, interesting buildings and a sense of being somewhere important. We have a shopping mall.

I don't dislike MK - I chose to live here - but I just can't see it as a city in the same way as, say, Manchester.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

But I was talking about the centre, which is in my view what defines a City. In my mind a City Centre should have public squares, a Town or City Hall, interesting buildings and a sense of being somewhere important. We have a shopping mall.

I don't dislike MK - I chose to live here - but I just can't see it as a city in the same way as, say, Manchester.

Comparing to Manchester is a bit unfair- most cities, even historic ones, don't come close. Central MK is more modern, and as a post-war "new city" has the hallmarks of popular architectural trends of the time. Although with a road layout that lends itself to that style better than say Bradford or Sheffield which had heavy post-war rebuilding but largely retained their historic street plan.

 

[DelayRepay]

Comparing to Manchester is a bit unfair- most cities, even historic ones, don't come close. Central MK is more modern, and as a post-war "new city" has the hallmarks of popular architectural trends of the time. Although with a road layout that lends itself to that style better than say Bradford or Sheffield which had heavy post-war rebuilding but largely retained their historic street plan.

Maybe a comparison with Manchester is unfair, but both Bradford and Sheffield have what I would describe as focal points where you know you're in the centre. MK does not.

 

[AlterEgo]

I live in MK and I agree. Other cities I've lived in and visited have had proper city centres. We've got a shopping centre, office buildings and a load of car parks! I don't feel like it has an proper identity in the way other cities do, perhaps because so many people have moved into the area rather than being born and raised here.

Milton Keynes is the most unique place of its size in the country. Anyone who thinks it doesn’t have its own identity is barking.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2022 ==

Maybe a comparison with Manchester is unfair, but both Bradford and Sheffield have what I would describe as focal points where you know you're in the centre. MK does not.

That’s what makes it such a good place to live.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I can't think of anywhere less like a city than Milton Keynes. Cities have history, cathedrals, an interesting city centre and the like. Milton Keynes is just a big a modern hotch potch on the M1 and WCML with none of these things.

And Wrexham's only claim to fame seems to be Pontcysyllte Aqueduct. While the aqueduct is in Wrexham County Borough for administrative purposes, it is nowhere near the town of Wrexham. It stands between Ruabon and Llangollen. It is a bit like claiming Keighley is in Bradford or Leigh is in Wigan.

Historically when HM The Queen grants charters to new cities, she grant equal numbers to the four countries of the UK. However there is hardly anywhere substantial left in Wales or Northern Ireland which isn't a city already. So at least, on this occasion, she has restricted Wales, NI and Scotland to one new city each and given three places to England.

I might suggest you don't have a clue what you are talking about!

I have been to MK & it's villages numerous times DarloRich - to three different football grounds, a cricket ground, Bletchley Park, MKs depressing railway station where the only pub nearby is a b***y Wetherspoons. and two or three different places for business meetings. That's enough to come to a reasonably informed view.

 

[Starmill]

Do any HSTs stop there?

An HST did work to there until the recent timetable change, but it wasn't branded Inter 7 City, and has in any case been withdrawn. They no longer even serve Inverkeithing either, except for on Sundays and the 0530 Edinburgh to Aberdeen.

 

[cactustwirly]

I don't understand why Doncaster and Colchester have been nominated but Reading hasn't?

Reading is bigger and more culturally significant, having the Abbey, the prison where Oscar Wilde was incarcerated and the Banksy mural.

 

[yorksrob]

Dunfermline ought to be.

What with the a King sitting there drinking the blood red wine !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2022 ==

I don't understand why Doncaster and Colchester have been nominated but Reading hasn't?

Reading is bigger and more culturally significant, having the Abbey, the prison where Oscar Wilde was incarcerated and the Banksy mural.

I lived in Reading for six months.

It was also pants. The only thing I liked about it was the station and they flattened that.

 

[DarloRich]

I have been to MK & it's villages numerous times DarloRich - to three different football grounds, a cricket ground, Bletchley Park, MKs depressing railway station where the only pub nearby is a b***y Wetherspoons. and two or three different places for business meetings. That's enough to come to a reasonably informed view.

I have only lived here for nearly 12 years so I doubt I have been able to come to a reasonably informed view. Thanks for putting me straight.

Expressing your view is fine. It isn't accurate but I understand that you, like many people who visit occasionally, have a lot of preconceptions about MK. I am sure I had them before I moved here but they simply aren't accurate. It would be like me saying Bradford is a complete dump based on the couple of visits I have had. I am sure you would put me right.

BTW - 3 grounds: Hockey Stadium, Estadio della Dongs and perhaps Newport Pagnell?

 

[Kite159]

An HST did work to there until the recent timetable change, but it wasn't branded Inter 7 City, and has in any case been withdrawn. They no longer even serve Inverkeithing either, except for on Sundays and the 0530 Edinburgh to Aberdeen.

I wouldn't put it past Scotrail (once the current issues get resolved) to introduce a random token HST Intercity service from Edinburgh to Aberdeen during the day which goes via Dunfermline to say they are linking the 8th Scottish city. Maybe going via the inner Fife circle to allow it to get overtaken by an LNER Aberdeen train

 

[DarloRich]

Maybe a comparison with Manchester is unfair, but both Bradford and Sheffield have what I would describe as focal points where you know you're in the centre. MK does not.

MK was designed specifically NOT to have that kind of centre. That is very deliberately part of it's identity.