Caught

[BadTimes]

Hi all,

Read through this forum and loads of sounds advice. Good work guys.

Quite obvious why I am here by the thread title.

I’m ashamed to admit I’ve been caught fare dodging. For the last 12 months or so I’ve been buying short tickets or not at all for a commute using Greater Anglia from Essex (Rayleigh) into Strarford whereby I would tap in for the tube and continue my journey.

The ‘fraud investigator’ chap saw me tap in a lot Stratford and pulled me aside asking where I’d travelled from and if I could produce a ticket. Of course I couldn’t.

He then scanned my most recent ticket but noticed my erratic purchase history. I came clean and said I didn’t pay some days and bought short on others.

What can I expect to happen now? He asked me a load of questions under caution and took my details.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

Some time in the next few months (it could be as long as six months, it may be as short as the next few days) the railway will write to you. Most likely they will send you a letter headed something like 'notice of intended prosecution' but at this stage they will probably be asking you to give your side of the story.

When you get that letter, read it carefully. It may give some indication of what the railway already know: for example in recent weeks we have seen letters that make it clear that the railway have talked to ticket sellers (the Trainline and so on) and so have full knowledge of what train tickets you have bought. And of course there is whatever you told the person who pulled you over.

Normally, when you are asked for your side of the story, the railway will want a written reply. @Hadders regularly contributes to this forum and has some excellent advice if that's what happens: you can see an example of it at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/intent-to-prosecute-for-short-ticket.231348/post-5647021

But given that you seem to have a substantial record of fare dodging, it's not impossible that you will be called in for an interview. If that happens, you might want to think about consulting a solicitor. If for some reason that's not practical, then try and see if there is someone trustworthy you can take to the interview with you: this wouldn't mean them speaking for you - but they can listen to what you're being asked and what you're answering, and after the interview you can talk things through with them and make sure that you have a common understanding of what has just happened.

Normally, fare dodging is dealt with either by an out of court settlement (where you pay the railway the fares that you dodged, plus the costs of their investigation) or by prosecution either under the railway byelaws or the Regulation of the Railways Act (where if convicted you pay a fine, plus compensation (the fares that you dodged), plus prosecution costs, plus court costs). Generally it is cheaper to settle out of court, but it's the railway's choice rather than yours as to whether to allow that rather than to go for a prosecution. So if there is no doubt about your guilt, then it is in your interest to co-operate with the railway in the hope that they accept that you have learnt your lesson and do not need to be punished through the court to stop you from fare-dodging.

 

[BadTimes]

Welcome to the forum.

Some time in the next few months (it could be as long as six months, it may be as short as the next few days) the railway will write to you. Most likely they will send you a letter headed something like 'notice of intended prosecution' but at this stage they will probably be asking you to give your side of the story.

When you get that letter, read it carefully. It may give some indication of what the railway already know: for example in recent weeks we have seen letters that make it clear that the railway have talked to ticket sellers (the Trainline and so on) and so have full knowledge of what train tickets you have bought. And of course there is whatever you told the person who pulled you over.

Normally, when you are asked for your side of the story, the railway will want a written reply. @Hadders regularly contributes to this forum and has some excellent advice if that's what happens: you can see an example of it at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/intent-to-prosecute-for-short-ticket.231348/post-5647021

But given that you seem to have a substantial record of fare dodging, it's not impossible that you will be called in for an interview. If that happens, you might want to think about consulting a solicitor. If for some reason that's not practical, then try and see if there is someone trustworthy you can take to the interview with you: this wouldn't mean them speaking for you - but they can listen to what you're being asked and what you're answering, and after the interview you can talk things through with them and make sure that you have a common understanding of what has just happened.

Normally, fare dodging is dealt with either by an out of court settlement (where you pay the railway the fares that you dodged, plus the costs of their investigation) or by prosecution either under the railway byelaws or the Regulation of the Railways Act (where if convicted you pay a fine, plus compensation (the fares that you dodged), plus prosecution costs, plus court costs). Generally it is cheaper to settle out of court, but it's the railway's choice rather than yours as to whether to allow that rather than to go for a prosecution. So if there is no doubt about your guilt, then it is in your interest to co-operate with the railway in the hope that they accept that you have learnt your lesson and do not need to be punished through the court to stop you from fare-dodging.

Many thanks for responding and thanks for setting expectations for me.

Frankly, I deserve everything I get. I certainly won’t be fare dodging ever again.

 

[BJames]

Many thanks for responding and thanks for setting expectations for me.

Frankly, I deserve everything I get. I certainly won’t be fare dodging ever again.

Do come back to us when you get written to if you need advice on how to respond (although Hadders' advice as quoted in the above response is an excellent starting point) - many people here will be able to help.

 

[BadTimes]

Do come back to us when you get written to if you need advice on how to respond (although Hadders' advice as quoted in the above response is an excellent starting point) - many people here will be able to help.

Appreciated.

 

[najaB]

Frankly, I deserve everything I get. I certainly won’t be fare dodging ever again.

If you genuinely recognise feel that way - meaning that you're sorry for what you've done rather than that you got caught and recognise that it was wrong - then if you do get called in for an interview and can clearly express that sentiment then there is a better than zero chance that you will be able to avoid the harshest penalties.

The TOC will have a figure in mind as to the fares that you have avoided and you can expect that any settlement offered will be based on that figure - keep in mind that they will usually estimate on the high end, so that figure might be higher than the fares you actual avoided. I would expect them to base it on the assumption that you've not paid any fare at all - it'll be something like 230x the return fare (5 days a week for 46 weeks). So my advice (in addition to that already proffered) is to start saving up.

 

[Watershed]

If you genuinely recognise feel that way - meaning that you're sorry for what you've done rather than that you got caught and recognise that it was wrong - then if you do get called in for an interview and can clearly express that sentiment then there is a better than zero chance that you will be able to avoid the harshest penalties.

The TOC will have a figure in mind as to the fares that you have avoided and you can expect that any settlement offered will be based on that figure - keep in mind that they will usually estimate on the high end, so that figure might be higher than the fares you actual avoided. I would expect them to base it on the assumption that you've not paid any fare at all - it'll be something like 230x the return fare (5 days a week for 46 weeks). So my advice (in addition to that already proffered) is to start saving up.

It's worth noting that whilst that will likely be the going rate for an out of Court settlement (and they are unlikely to negotiate, if they're willing to offer one), if the OP took the matter to Court and were convicted, they would only be ordered to pay the TOC's losses. These could be substantially lower as they would be based on what would have happened if no offence had been committed, i.e. what a season ticket would have cost, rather than daily tickets.

It is therefore up to the OP to decide whether they would prefer to keep a clean criminal record (but likely pay a high price for that), or possibly minimise the overall cost by taking it to Court. They don't need to decide anything at this stage, but the correspondence they receive from GA should give some indication as to which way things are proceeding. With repeated evasion like this, a prosecution under the Fraud Act isn't totally out of the question, and that (or prosecutions for multiple offences under RoRA) would open the door to a potential prison sentence, so the stakes are high no matter the outcome.

 

[BadTimes]

If you genuinely recognise feel that way - meaning that you're sorry for what you've done rather than that you got caught and recognise that it was wrong - then if you do get called in for an interview and can clearly express that sentiment then there is a better than zero chance that you will be able to avoid the harshest penalties.

The TOC will have a figure in mind as to the fares that you have avoided and you can expect that any settlement offered will be based on that figure - keep in mind that they will usually estimate on the high end, so that figure might be higher than the fares you actual avoided. I would expect them to base it on the assumption that you've not paid any fare at all - it'll be something like 230x the return fare (5 days a week for 46 weeks). So my advice (in addition to that already proffered) is to start saving up.

My purchase history will show that there have been plenty of times I have bought tickets. Sorry if my original post was not clear. I’m talking about fare dodging/buying short for approx 1-2 times per week for a 12 month period.

There are also genuine times I’ve bought a physical ticket from a machine or station attendant.

I also made it clear to the fraud officer chap that I’ve been working from home for 1-2 days a week for the whole duration.

Would this impact any settlement offer I may be lucky enough to receive?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My purchase history will show that there have been plenty of times I have bought tickets. Sorry if my original post was not clear. I’m talking about fare dodging/buying short for approx 1-2 times per week for a 12 month period.

There are also genuine times I’ve bought a physical ticket from a machine or station attendant.

That's as may be, but the TOC's fraud investigations team will probably also be able to readily determine just how many times you've touched in/out at Stratford, but on the same day, there's been no corresponding tickets apparently been bought between Rayleigh and Stratford. There may be some legitimate explanation for these omissions, but it'll most likely be considered that you've avoided paying the correct fare on each and every such occasion.

 

[najaB]

Would this impact any settlement offer I may be lucky enough to receive?

It might do, but it is probably better to prepare for the worst and be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Wethebest838]

It might do, but it is probably better to prepare for the worst and be pleasantly surprised.

I agree. I did that with my cousin who was caught. Prepared for the worst and was £300-£400 cheaper than I thought.

 

[BadTimes]

Right, so I’ve now received my letter from GA. It wasn’t what I was expecting to be honest… see the attached file.

I gather this is where I plead for an out of court settlement via the email link they’ve provided.

 

[najaB]

Right, so I’ve now received my letter from GA. It wasn’t what I was expecting to be honest… see the attached file.

This is fairly standard. They are asking for any mitigating factors which they should take into consideration. As per the advice given already, this is where you:

• Admit your transgression
• State what you have learned and what you intend to do differently in the future
• Request that they settle the matter without involving the courts
• Offer to recompense the TOC for their losses - this is where you explain how many fares you have dodged

 

[Haywain]

Offer to recompense the TOC for their losses - this is where you explain how many fares you have dodged

I disagree with the second part of that. Simply offer/ask to settle without suggesting an amount or giving figures.

 

[AlterEgo]

I disagree with the second part of that. Simply offer/ask to settle without suggesting an amount or giving figures.

Yes, more sensible. Sometimes the TOC only wishes to deal with a single offence, the one captured at the time of the stop.

 

[najaB]

I disagree with the second part of that. Simply offer/ask to settle without suggesting an amount or giving figures.

Yes, more sensible. Sometimes the TOC only wishes to deal with a single offence, the one captured at the time of the stop.

The issue is that the OP already admitted to repeated offences but yes, you can leave out an amount.

 

[30907]

Yes, more sensible. Sometimes the TOC only wishes to deal with a single offence, the one captured at the time of the stop.

True, but the fact that the fraud investigation team is involved may mean that they intend to pursue the OP regarding multiple offences.
I agree the OP should leave the amount to them.

 

[BadTimes]

Thanks all. I’ve sent off my response covering all required points.

Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again.

 

[BadTimes]

Update to this.

Received my response today from Greater Anglia.

They’ve offered me an out of court settlement for £355.00. This has now been paid and I’ve written back confirming that the payment has been sent and asking for confirmation that the matter is now closed.

I think I’ve had a right result, as I was expecting to pay a hell of a lot more.

Lesson learned. Yearly season ticket purchased.

Thanks for all of the help and advice received on here. I certainly plan to be a regular visitor to the site, but only for the right reasons going forward.

 

[WesternLancer]

Update to this.

Received my response today from Greater Anglia.

They’ve offered me an out of court settlement for £355.00. This has now been paid and I’ve written back confirming that the payment has been sent and asking for confirmation that the matter is now closed.

I think I’ve had a right result, as I was expecting to pay a hell of a lot more.

Lesson learned. Yearly season ticket purchased.

Thanks for all of the help and advice received on here. I certainly plan to be a regular visitor to the site, but only for the right reasons going forward.

Thanks for update - this seems a reasonable outcome for you given what you outlined about your case.

Also I think if you have now got a yearly season ticket you are entitled to a 'Gold Card' which allows discounted rail travel on other routes (not just your season route) - that may be helpful for you. I'm not fully familiar with them but other threads will answer

I think it is worthwhile benefit of an annual season ticket

probably this info here is hopefully accurate:

Annual Gold Card | National Rail

Special offer: Annual Gold Card. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[Haywain]

Update to this.

Received my response today from Greater Anglia.

They’ve offered me an out of court settlement for £355.00. This has now been paid and I’ve written back confirming that the payment has been sent and asking for confirmation that the matter is now closed.

I think I’ve had a right result, as I was expecting to pay a hell of a lot more.

Lesson learned. Yearly season ticket purchased.

Thanks for all of the help and advice received on here. I certainly plan to be a regular visitor to the site, but only for the right reasons going forward.

Thanks for letting us know. It's worth bearing in mind that there are legitimate ways of saving money on fares such as the Gold Card mentioned above, and by splitting (mainly through dedicated websites). This forum, on the Fares Advice section is a good place to find out about such things.

 

[BadTimes]

Thanks again everyone