Grand Central train stopped due to fault near Welwyn

[vtiman]

Grand Central Class 180 Train stopped under red light under Lyles Lane WGC with engines still running.

All Southbound services routed onto slow lines. Northbound lines running ok.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 May 2022 ==



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 May 2022 ==

Signal 620 Headcode 5A61

 

[zwk500]

Given the length its passed the signal by there doesn't seem to be anything amiss. Signals are usually replaced to red by the leading end of the train passing the signal, not the rear. The train itself has failed mechanically, I believe.

 

[vtiman]

Yet it is blocking the line and not moving. Normally the driver would stop before the red light unless there was a problem. At least it is only several coaches beyond the light as you say.

 

[DanNCL]

What I suspect happened is that the signal was showing a proceed aspect when the train passed, changed to danger (as designed) once the first couple of vehicles have passed the signal, and the train has stopped for a completely unrelated reason, most likely an issue on the train (after all, it is a 180!)

 

[zwk500]

Yet it is blocking the line and not moving. Normally the driver would stop before the red light unless there was a problem. At least it is only several coaches beyond the light as you say.

From what I can see the driver didn't have too much choice where the train came to a stand. The route would have been set for the train to pass the WGC fast lines, and either the train replaced the signal to red as per normal or the signaller cancelled the route after speaking to the driver.

 

[vtiman]

I merely noted the situation as I was proceeding over the bridge and did not speculate as to the reasons why the train had stopped where it did.

 

[zwk500]

Fair enough

 

[dakta]

If you're in the rear coaches of a train you will find signals are already red or well in the process of switching as you go through, probably a case of just where you happen to fail

 

[vtiman]

Yes I often look out to see the signals changing when travelling by train. I’m not paranoid am just old fashioned and like looking out the window ! I don’t recall ever stopping 1/3 of the way through a signal.

 

[800001]

That also had the rescue train attached by the looks of the picture.

 

[transportphoto]

The OP has inadvertently implied that a signal has been passed at danger, at this stage there appears to be no information to support either way.

As other members have highlighted it is entirely possible that the signal was passed with a proceed aspect and has switched back to red as the train occupies the next section. Stopping under the signal gantry being a complete coincidence.

I can’t see any tweets or suchlike as yet about this.

 

[vtiman]

All going as expected then. If it is only a breakdown which is worrying but happens then all is good. I noted the second set.

 

[800001]

The OP has inadvertently implied that a signal has been passed at danger, at this stage there appears to be no information to support either way.

As other members have highlighted it is entirely possible that the signal was passed with a proceed aspect and has switched back to red as the train occupies the next section. Stopping under the signal gantry being a complete coincidence.

I can’t see any tweets or suchlike as yet about this.

It was a total loss of power from the unit, and also unable to release brakes.

Internal Information​

TIME TRAIN HAS BEEN STOOD SINCE:

1200

REASON/COMMENTARY:

Loss of power, unable to release brakes - set declared a failure 180107

 

[vtiman]

I didn’t imply that it was a SPAD indeed until just now.

The OP has inadvertently implied that a signal has been passed at danger, at this stage there appears to be no information to support either way.

As other members have highlighted it is entirely possible that the signal was passed with a proceed aspect and has switched back to red as the train occupies the next section. Stopping under the signal gantry being a complete coincidence.

I can’t see any tweets or suchlike as yet about this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 May 2022 ==

I didn’t imply that it was a SPAD indeed did not use the word until now.

 

[craigybagel]

I didn’t imply that it was a SPAD indeed until just now.

You might not have meant to, but given this thread was originally entitled ""Train stopped UNDER red light", I think it's fair to say many readers will have thought of the same implications in your post.

 

[800001]

Been there some time see attached
If passengers were on it hope they got evacuated safely

They got evacuated to another GC unit brought alongside on Down fast, taken to Stevenage where they boarded other services. That unit the returned and is now attached to the failed unit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 May 2022 ==

Update at 18.45 unit is about to move into the sidings at Welwyn Garden City.

 

[yorkie]

They got evacuated to another GC unit brought alongside on Down fast, taken to Stevenage where they boarded other services. That unit the returned and is now attached to the failed unit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 May 2022 ==

Update at 18.45 unit is about to move into the sidings at Welwyn Garden City.

I see it's had the route for ages but isn't budging and is causing a queue of trains.

Edit: it's finally shifted out the way.

 

[800001]

I see it's had the route for ages but isn't budging and is causing a queue of trains.

5mph to move it.

 

[zwk500]

Unit now in the sidings and route given for 1A41 on Up Fast

 

[skyhigh]

Normally the driver would stop before the red light unless there was a problem.

If the brakes apply themselves you stop where you stop!

 

[DanNCL]

These 180s seem to be causing more and more issues. Not to mention that they’re the last diesel trains into Kings Cross. I think the last few incidents just further reinforce the point that the 180s need replacing.

 

[800001]

These 180s seem to be causing more and more issues. Not to mention that they’re the last diesel trains into Kings Cross. I think the last few incidents just further reinforce the point that the 180s need replacing.

All the problems they’ve had lately can’t be many left.

They've been cancelling multiple services daily due to unit shortages.

The unit that failed near Newark, carriage that ran away at Crofton and now this today.

Thankfully todays stopped in a position to not cause to much issue, if it had occurred one signal section previous, the line would have been completely blocked heading south, and services would have had to divert - where possible - via Hertford.

 

[DanNCL]

All the problems they’ve had lately can’t be many left.
Been cancelling multiple services daily due to unit shortages.
The unit that failed near Newark, carriage that ran away at Crofton and now this today.
Thankfully todays stopped in a position to not cause to much issue, if it had occurred one signal section previous, then Like would of been completely blocked heading south, and services would of had to divert where possible for Hertford.

Indeed. The 91s look reliable in comparison to these things!

 

[70014IronDuke]

These 180s seem to be causing more and more issues. Not to mention that they’re the last diesel trains into Kings Cross. I think the last few incidents just further reinforce the point that the 180s need replacing.

It may not be a fair comparison, but I remember that the SRA (was it, at the time?) forced the TOC at the time to withdraw the one Leeds - Appleby - Glasgow Central through working in the late 2000s because - as I remember - it didn't want to risk 75 mph (?) DMUs working Carlisle - Glasgow in case they messed up the super new WCML trains.

If that one train each way per day, using reasonably reliable units, needed a ban, it seems to me that these notoriously unreliable 180s should never have been allowed to start on the ECML. It would be stuffed enough even without these units and all their attendant risks.

 

[fgwrich]

They weren't so bad when Old Oak Common maintained them for Hull Trains and Great Western. Unfortunately, as unreliable as the mechanics of a Adelante are, I don't think having Crofton (a Bombardier now Alstom) depot have been much of a great help to them. At least the OOC staff knew the ins and outs of them.

 

[yorkie]

..., it seems to me that these notoriously unreliable 180s should never have been allowed to start on the ECML.

I have created a new thread to discuss whether or not they should be banned from the ECML, as follows:

Should class 180s be banned from the ECML?

Following posts made in the following thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/grand-central-train-stopped-due-to-fault-near-welwyn.231727/ These 180s seem to be causing more and more issues. Not to mention that they’re the last diesel trains into Kings Cross. I think the last few...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Stampy]

The unit that failed near Newark, carriage that ran away at Crofton and now this today.

Didn't one also dump one of it's fuel tanks in the Peterborough area too??

 

[DanNCL]

They weren't so bad when Old Oak Common maintained them for Hull Trains and Great Western. Unfortunately, as unreliable as the mechanics of a Adelante are, I don't think having Crofton (a Bombardier now Alstom) depot have been much of a great help to them. At least the OOC staff knew the ins and outs of them.

The GC units weren’t too bad when Heaton did most of the work on them. Now Crofton seem to have more of the work they’ve gone down the pan just like the Hull Trains units did when they went to Crofton. Almost as if the problem is Crofton…

 

[fgwrich]

The GC units weren’t too bad when Heaton did most of the work on them. Now Crofton seem to have more of the work they’ve gone down the pan just like the Hull Trains units did when they went to Crofton. Almost as if the problem is Crofton…

It's almost as if Bombardier didn't enjoy looking after someone else's units...

It's a shame though that the OOC staff couldn't transfer over to another London ECML depot - but of course, that transferred to Hitachi too.

(Wouldn't be the first time either, see how rapidly the East Coast HST reliability dropped after Hitachi took over Craigentinny)

 

[Mugby]

How was it that GC just happened to have another set (to the rescue) in the vicinity? Where did it come from?