Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Blindtraveler]

Of course it would be an incredible dose of common sense if the 15 were to extend back Eastwood's through Portobello to eastfields given the the cutbacks on the 124 and my suspicions that the 26th will not cope. Furthermore doing this would restore the link lost between Portobello, Waverley station directly, Lothian road etc especially if they extended it either back to penicuik or at least two somewhere like Hillend


Perhaps be a a limited stop service out with the Waterloo place usher hall section

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Of course it would be an incredible dose of common sense if the 15 were to extend back Eastwood's through Portobello to eastfields given the the cutbacks on the 124 and my suspicions that the 26th will not cope. Furthermore doing this would restore the link lost between Portobello, Waverley station directly, Lothian road etc especially if they extended it either back to penicuik or at least two somewhere like Hillend


Perhaps be a a limited stop service out with the Waterloo place usher hall section

Bringing back the X15 wouldn’t be a bad thing to do.

It could work well if it was run by ECB, a bit like how the 39 and 40 were moved to ECB to become the 139 and 140. I believe the X15 could also do this and it would work, albeit with a different route number though.

Probably starting at Blindwells, then via it’s old route from Prestonpans to Penicuik (possibly terminating at Deanburn again?). Same limited stop pattern as before.

124 probably could be merged in with this somewhat and offer a combined 15 mins frequency. In my view make the 124 run as an all day X24 (this would be the same as the route during the peak hours) doing the route it did via Portobello.

Then lastly leave the 113 pretty much as it is now (and not like it will be next month). My previous suggestion about the X44 becoming the X13 would also be a useful thing to have.

26 would then need to be changed again. Both route and frequency. I’d like to see some 26’s serve Long Craigs and Blindwells one day once it’s built up enough.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Rumour is that the 24 will become a "decker" route and the 2 could be moving garage again, which would give enough capacity to run the 1 and 12s on single deck only?

Yes, staffed by double deck drivers full time. The 2 is going entirely to Marine, the only "single deck" routes at Central now will be the 1 and 12.

I think we'll see the 200s back out again from the 6th.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Another day, another cancelled bus on a half hourly route (so now an hours gap instead). Hope Lothian are going to improve as time goes on. I’m guessing more drivers are due to start soon but with them struggling to fulfil the current service levels it’s difficult to see this being avoided.

Don’t get me wrong if there’s no driver what can you do but it’s certainly still happening too often.

 

[scosutsut]

Yes, staffed by double deck drivers full time. The 2 is going entirely to Marine, the only "single deck" routes at Central now will be the 1 and 12.

I think we'll see the 200s back out again from the 6th.

Is there not a substantial PVR saving on the 22 with the changes, or is that eaten up elsewhere?

 

[ScotRail158725]

I still predict further deckers as I say possibly second-hand b5 coming into the fleet in the next couple of years as the remaining ones that are not euro 6 modified will have to go and as some still remain this will doubtless happen

That would be a waste of money considering all the the B5s are Euro 6 already, if not euro 6 compatible and all the B9s in the fleet are too. B5TLs are near enough non existent outside of Lothian and B5LHs are only found in London of which they won't be getting rid of anytime soon as they’re all bought and not leased. The change in Lothian management might have affected the desire for second hand vehicles too. When the Ex London B9s were bought it was to out the remaining Trident and B7TLs which were Euro3/4.

 

[eh1]

Yes, staffed by double deck drivers full time. The 2 is going entirely to Marine, the only "single deck" routes at Central now will be the 1 and 12.

I think we'll see the 200s back out again from the 6th.

Probably to maximise use of the hybrids rather than the current half half of singles/doubles on the routes. Glad in a sense to see the 24 onto deckers, it's a good route with a good challenge or two (West Savile Terrace comes to mind!)

 

[CN04NRJ]

That would be a waste of money considering all the the B5s are Euro 6 already, if not euro 6 compatible and all the B9s in the fleet are too. B5TLs are near enough non existent outside of Lothian and B5LHs are only found in London of which they won't be getting rid of anytime soon as they’re all bought and not leased. The change in Lothian management might have affected the desire for second hand vehicles too. When the Ex London B9s were bought it was to out the remaining Trident and B7TLs which were Euro3/4.

Plenty of B5LHs around, First have a few, Stagecoach have a handful on MMC bodies and Arriva have a lot around Liverpool. That's just off the top of my head.

 

[ScotRail158725]

That would be a waste of money considering all the the B5s are Euro 6 already, if not euro 6 compatible and all the B9s in the fleet are too. B5TLs are near enough non existent outside of Lothian and B5LHs are near enough only found in London of which they won't be getting rid of anytime soon as they’re all bought and not leased. The change in Lothian management might have affected the desire for second hand vehicles too. When the Ex London B9s were bought it was to out the remaining Trident and B7TLs which were Euro3/4.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Plenty of B5LHs around, First have a few, Stagecoach have a handful on MMC bodies and Arriva have a lot around Liverpool. That's just off the top of my head.

That’s pretty much everything. First Manchester, Stagecoach Strathtay (some have moved on) and Arriva Merseyside all got them new. There’s some in Dublin as well. Arriva have over 50 in Liverpool, with some Euro 5 ones on top of that also.

The overwhelming majority are in London but there’s well over 100 outside of London (including Lothian’s).

B5TL’s in London, now they are a rare thing. Is it 3 now?

 

[stantheman]

Rather confused about the 24 ...what are deckers ...it’s all double deck at the moment but used to be single deckers . What will it be from June ? I love the route taken through the Grange

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Rather confused about the 24 ...what are deckers ...it’s all double deck at the moment but used to be single deckers . What will it be from June ? I love the route taken through the Grange

Double decks permanently. Until now it’s still been on the single deck rota, just using double decks. From June it will be moved to the double deck rota.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

1129 was on the 100 Airlink route repainted into old colours white with black logo.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

1129 was on the 100 Airlink route repainted into old colours white with black logo.

Have these been repainted back to blue then or are they still white just with Airlink logos? Only asking as both 1129 and 1130 were out on the 7 yesterday but are on the Airlink today.

 

[Bus9120UK]

1129 was on the 100 Airlink route repainted into old colours white with black logo.

By this, do you mean 1129 has received a black front logo, but remains in white paint?

 

[computerSaysNo]

What happens with the shed at North Berwick with regards to overnighting? There appear to be some 124s finish there in the evening but those are double decks which can't fit into the shed?

 

[alexf380]

There's a yard round the back, opposite the recycling centre. 4 double decks outside and 4 single decks inside (two X7s, two daytime 106s)
You can see an old First decker on Google Street view:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[DunsBus]

What happens with the shed at North Berwick with regards to overnighting? There appear to be some 124s finish there in the evening but those are double decks which can't fit into the shed?

The double decks are parked in the yard at the back of the depot. This was also the case in First days.

 

[Snow1964]

B5TL’s in London, now they are a rare thing. Is it 3 now?

Golden Tours had 16 part open MCV bodied and 1 Wrightbus bodied B5TL when I last looked, but many were stored during Covid so not sure if they still have them all

Falcon coaches also has a Volvo B5TL MCV decker which is Surrey based.

So there are a few in London area, but unlikely to be available to Lothian

 

[computerSaysNo]

There's a yard round the back, opposite the recycling centre. 4 double decks outside and 4 single decks inside (two X7s, two daytime 106s)
You can see an old First decker on Google Street view:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

The double decks are parked in the yard at the back of the depot. This was also the case in First days.

Ahh okay, I hadn't realized there was outdoor storage as well. Thanks both.
So do drivers clock off there as well? Do they have to make their own way back to Musselburgh?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Golden Tours had 16 part open MCV bodied and 1 Wrightbus bodied B5TL when I last looked, but many were stored during Covid so not sure if they still have them all

Falcon coaches also has a Volvo B5TL MCV decker which is Surrey based.

So there are a few in London area, but unlikely to be available to Lothian

I was only thinking of the Gemini3 ones, I think it did used to be more than 1.

The MCV ones I completely forgot about, but yes Golden Tours have a good mix of Volvo/MCV products. Even some B8L’s now.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

There's a yard round the back, opposite the recycling centre. 4 double decks outside and 4 single decks inside (two X7s, two daytime 106s)
You can see an old First decker on Google Street view:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

I forgot that the X7/106 also runs out of North Berwick, handy for some late runs

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Something which has confused not just myself, but others, including tourists, has been the express buses.

X24 is express for 124 and not 24 as 24 does not have an express bus, so why call it the X24? Yet, X44 is express for 44.

So, my question for those in the know is why the X24 is not called the X124? The display can fit X124 without issue as it does with N113 for example.

 

[stevenedin]

It probably has to do with when the buses had roller blinds and only had 3 tracks.

To be honest I’m not really a fan of routes being more than 3 digits/letters it just starts to look too long. I do get what you mean though it makes sense but then again you have the same with the X27 where it is nowhere near the same route as the Lothian 27

 

[Darklord8899]

Something which has confused not just myself, but others, including tourists, has been the express buses.

X24 is express for 124 and not 24 as 24 does not have an express bus, so why call it the X24? Yet, X44 is express for 44.

So, my question for those in the know is why the X24 is not called the X124? The display can fit X124 without issue as it does with N113 for example.

I think it is a historical thing, going back to ye olde days when you had 3 reels for numbers...
The first number was dropped for the X...
So (using old SMT/Eastern Scottish/First East Lothian services as an example):
113 was X13
124 was X24
106 was X06 which later became EX6
108 was X08 which later became X8

 

[stevenedin]

I think it is a historical thing, going back to ye olde days when you had 3 reels for numbers...
The first number was dropped for the X...
So (using old SMT/Eastern Scottish/First East Lothian services as an example):
113 was X13
124 was X24
106 was X06 which later became EX6
108 was X08 which later became X8

There was also the X6

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

It probably has to do with when the buses had roller blinds and only had 3 tracks.

To be honest I’m not really a fan of routes being more than 3 digits/letters it just starts to look too long. I do get what you mean though it makes sense but then again you have the same with the X27 where it is nowhere near the same route as the Lothian 27

I think it is a historical thing, going back to ye olde days when you had 3 reels for numbers...
The first number was dropped for the X...
So (using old SMT/Eastern Scottish/First East Lothian services as an example):
113 was X13
124 was X24
106 was X06 which later became EX6
108 was X08 which later became X8

I did not think of the roller blinds of back in the day. Makes total sense. However, with that said, I wonder if now that all buses (bar a handful) have digital displays, if that will change at the big rejig of services that will come.

 

[317 forever]

Plenty of B5LHs around, First have a few, Stagecoach have a handful on MMC bodies and Arriva have a lot around Liverpool. That's just off the top of my head.

The other batch I can think of is with Go North East. Last year they moved to Durham - Consett routes.

 

[stevenedin]

I did not think of the roller blinds of back in the day. Makes total sense. However, with that said, I wonder if now that all buses (bar a handful) have digital displays, if that will change at the big rejig of services that will come.

Possibly but then again do we really need 4 digits when there aren’t that amount of services. To be honest we probably can’t need 3 digit service numbers on the East Coast buses and Lothian Country routes.

They could use the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and possibly some of the 90s.

113 could become 53
124 could become 54
276 could become 76
X27 could become X77
280 could become 80
and so on…

They could use X for if it is an express route and remove the routes that are linked with city routes.

The only thing with this would be that people who are familiar with them would not know which bus is which and they run the risk of people not using them as they don’t know which bus goes where.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Possibly but then again do we really need 4 digits when there aren’t that amount of services. To be honest we probably can’t need 3 digit service numbers on the East Coast buses and Lothian Country routes.

They could use the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and possibly some of the 90s.

113 could become 53
124 could become 54
276 could become 76
X27 could become X77
280 could become 80
and so on…

They could use X for if it is an express route and remove the routes that are linked with city routes.

The only thing with this would be that people who are familiar with them would not know which bus is which and they run the risk of people not using them as they don’t know which bus goes where.

I was thinking along similar lines myself. Sometimes it's a nice touch and a reminder that other operators made mistakes when discarding familiar numbers. But I don't know if there's much passenger loyalty to these service numbers, especially when they involve three digits which become more difficult to remember. Lothian Country's X27 and X28 are routed away from the A70/A71 to avoid Gorgie Road and Shandwick Place so a bit different from the originals anyway.

Also, is there actually an X24 bus number as an express for the East Coast 124? I believe First run an X24 through Broxburn, so perhaps rather confusing if true.