Class 80x accessible toilets

[ofmproductions]

Hi,

Does anyone know why accessible toilets on the Hitachi class 80x trains go out of order so often?

Any replies would be very appreciated!

 

[py_megapixel]

Do they?

I've noticed this problem much more on modified Sprinters. My understanding is that it's because they have been fitted with controlled emission toilets (i.e. ones that don't flush out onto the track), but because they were being retrofitted there wasn't much room and so they ended with smaller-than-optimal waste tanks. Obviously that shouldn't apply to 80x though.

If it's specifically the accessible toilets, could it be because of different numbers of toilets per carriage? The single accessible toilet in the end carriages surely gets used more than each of the two non-accessible toilets in the other carriages.

 

[mmh]

This is one of multiple reasons that all toilets on a new build train should be accessible (I'd prefer them called something like universal) ones.

 

[DanNCL]

This is one of multiple reasons that all toilets on a new build train should be accessible (I'd prefer them called something like universal) ones.

They did that on the Voyagers, it's done nothing other than make an already too small train even more cramped than it already was.

 

[Flying Snail]

This is one of multiple reasons that all toilets on a new build train should be accessible (I'd prefer them called something like universal) ones.

We apparently can't have seats more than 2mm thick to save space but you want a massive space gobbling toilet in every coach?

Never mind that wheelchair bound passengers can't pass through the carriage isles to reach any other than their nearest toilet without being taken off the train.

Perhaps a more sensible solution would be for the accessible toilet to be set to lock OOU before the waste tank is completely full, allowing emergency access by the traincrew for anyone that cannot use the smaller toilets.

 

[mmh]

They did that on the Voyagers, it's done nothing other than make an already too small train even more cramped than it already was.

They did, and the toilet provision on Voyagers is great. They are all the same. You don't need to worry about where you are on the train, which toilet is which, the nearest toilet is the one you want. Fantastic.

 

[FGW_DID]

This is one of multiple reasons that all toilets on a new build train should be accessible (I'd prefer them called something like universal) ones.

They already are. UAT = Universal Accessible Toilet.

 

[mmh]

We apparently can't have seats more than 2mm thick to save space but you want a massive space gobbling toilet in every coach?

Never mind that wheelchair bound passengers can't pass through the carriage isles to reach any other than their nearest toilet without being taken off the train.

I'm old enough to remember designs of trains which had at least 2 toilets per significantly shorter carriages than we're talking about.

Yes, I do want them all to be the same. I don't want it to be the current lottery. I would say I don't know why you've mentioned wheelchairs because nobody else has, but I suspect I do know why.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'm old enough to remember designs of trains which had at least 2 toilets per significantly shorter carriages than we're talking about.

That was before PRM requirements though. The toilets on ex-BR stock are tiny.

 

[Energy]

It seems that toilets are mostly taken out when the tanks are full, maybe its worth having a blue button for the toilet next to the disabled space, when the toilet is say 90+% full the toilet is locked out with non-disabled passengers using another toilet on the train (80Xs have many), disabled people can press the blue button to call a member of staff who can unlock the door to the toilet for them to prioritise the remaining tank space for those who cannot use another toilet.

 

[RPI]

A lot of the time it can be rectified by using a carriage key switching to "Manual" then back and resets the problem when its the door.

 

[Ashley Hill]

They also go OOU due to inadequate door pressure or if the door detects an obstruction (or more often thinks there’s one). When on a cant the door will feel heavy for the mechanism to close so it thinks there’s an obstruction,stops and goes OOU. Pulling the door fully closed will often reset it.

 

[43094]

The number being LOOU often isn’t related to how full the toilet is, it’s more often related to other issues which I can’t really go into on here.

 

[skyhigh]

I've noticed this problem much more on modified Sprinters. My understanding is that it's because they have been fitted with controlled emission toilets (i.e. ones that don't flush out onto the track), but because they were being retrofitted there wasn't much room and so they ended with smaller-than-optimal waste tanks.

Almost always lack of fresh water rather than full waste tank on 15x in my experience.

It seems that toilets are mostly taken out when the tanks are full, maybe its worth having a blue button for the toilet next to the disabled space, when the toilet is say 90+% full the toilet is locked out with non-disabled passengers using another toilet on the train (80Xs have many), disabled people can press the blue button to call a member of staff who can unlock the door to the toilet for them to prioritise the remaining tank space for those who cannot use another toilet.

This is kind of what 170s do - when they lock out due to a full tank you can press a button in one of the cupboards which will allow a couple of flushes before the toilet locks itself out of use again. Means people who can walk down to the other toilet, but if someone needs the accessible loo in particular they can still use it.

 

[800001]

On the 80x fleet it is very rare that it’s is due to lack or water, or the waste tank being full.

As someone mentioned up, the doors are a bit temperamental and if they try closing and feel an obstruction 3 times then when it does close it locks it self out, a T key off and on usually resets its.

There is other issues with parts shortages for the equipment which operates the toilet.

But in general, I would say it is rare for these to be locked out of use with a genuine fault.

 

[DanNCL]

I’ve never considered the accessible toilets on the 80xs to be unreliable as such. They have their issues but they don’t appear to be out of use any more frequently than they were on the HSTs and Mark 4s.

A unit would not be allowed to operate in service with both accessible toilets out of use, as it would not be PRM compliant.

 

[DannyMich2018]

The toilets of XC 170s aren't the most reliable. I had one the other week where both were out of use. Its very common for at least one to be out of use.

 

[RollingStock19]

They are terrible for going OOU if the train goes around a tight curve, especially slowly... I think its something to do with the air pressure used to open and close the door. The system thinks there is an issue with the door and knocks it OOU, it often comes back on its own but may need a T key reset.

 

[skyhigh]

A unit would not be allowed to operate in service with both accessible toilets out of use, as it would not be PRM compliant.

I've heard that mentioned before, but I'm not sure it's true? What happens if both lock out of use halfway through a journey?

 

[DanNCL]

I've heard that mentioned before, but I'm not sure it's true? What happens if both lock out of use halfway through a journey?

I'm sure commonsense would be used to allow the train to complete it's journey in such an instance.

 

[pdeaves]

the doors are a bit temperamental and if they try closing and feel an obstruction 3 times then when it does close it locks it self out, a T key off and on usually resets its.

Or just shove the door fully closed usually resets it wothout needing tools!

 

[RPI]

I've heard that mentioned before, but I'm not sure it's true? What happens if both lock out of use halfway through a journey?

I believe it can carry on (I'm happy to be corrected) as long as its working when it comes off the depot

 

[lachlan]

We apparently can't have seats more than 2mm thick to save space but you want a massive space gobbling toilet in every coach?

Never mind that wheelchair bound passengers can't pass through the carriage isles to reach any other than their nearest toilet without being taken off the train.

Perhaps a more sensible solution would be for the accessible toilet to be set to lock OOU before the waste tank is completely full, allowing emergency access by the traincrew for anyone that cannot use the smaller toilets.

Important to point out many wheelchair users are not bound to their wheelchair at all and as such the term "wheelchair bound" is now outdated, wheelchair user is preferred

 

[py_megapixel]

Important to point out many wheelchair users are not bound to their wheelchair at all and as such the term "wheelchair bound" is now outdated, wheelchair user is preferred

Someone who is a wheelchair user but not wheelchair bound might in some cases have more flexibility to get to another toilet on the train, while someone who must remain in their wheelchair has absolutely no option but to use the wheelchair accessible toilet in the same carriage as them.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The overwhelming problem with the UAT’s is shortage of components, mainly electronic but there have been issues with the supply of water pumps. Electronic component shortages are a global issue and on an 80x series unit, electronic parts for toilet components as well as the PA system are currently in very short supply.