Speed upgrades and electrification

[paul1609]

not from September they don’t!

They will have once there is a realisation of how much commuter traffic has gone forever. There's far too many empty trains on The Brighton mainline south of Gatwick and there's absolutely no justification for seperate services from the likes of Ashford to both Charing X and Cannon St in the peaks anymore.

 

[Halifaxlad]

With the recent news that NR are looking at wiring Rochdale and once TRU between Leeds and Huddersfield has been completed, probably Rochdale to Heaton Lodge Jct.

 

[Bald Rick]

Even if the BML was electrified with OLE, it wouldn't be 125mph. Trains stop too frequently and the distance isn't really long enough to justify the cost of upgrading and maintaining the track to 125mph.

same applies to 100mph!

They will have once there is a realisation of how much commuter traffic has gone forever. There's far too many empty trains on The Brighton mainline south of Gatwick and there's absolutely no justification for seperate services from the likes of Ashford to both Charing X and Cannon St in the peaks anymore.

there is that realisation, hence the two fleets going.

 

[zwk500]

same applies to 100mph!

Isn't the Brighton line currently 100mph for certain classes?

 

[notadriver]

Isn't the Brighton line currently 100mph for certain classes?

It’s not any more - only SE and SWR have 100 mph stretches of third rail track now.

 

[Bald Rick]

Isn't the Brighton line currently 100mph for certain classes?

not any more.

 

[zwk500]

It’s not any more - only SE and SWR have 100 mph stretches of third rail track now.

not any more.

Thanks both

 

[paul1609]

Isn't the Brighton line currently 100mph for certain classes?

It was only ever for short sections near Three Bridges and became irrelevant when the speed limit through Gatwick was reduced to 70mph during the remodelling as most trains stopped there.

 

[Bald Rick]

It was only ever for short sections near Three Bridges and became irrelevant when the speed limit through Gatwick was reduced to 70mph during the remodelling as most trains stopped there.

it became irrelevant when the Brighton fasts started calling at Gatwick, and it was barely relevant before that. From memory it saved about 15 seconds per train fir anything not stopping at Gatwick.

 

[paul1609]

it became irrelevant when the Brighton fasts started calling at Gatwick, and it was barely relevant before that. From memory it saved about 15 seconds per train fir anything not stopping at Gatwick.

Indeed it would have made more impact if it had been the sections north of Gatwick but the footpath crossings stopped that. "back in the old days" Id frequently experienced 100mph + in downhill Bognor Buffet services. It was a well known fact that you had to hold on to your beer as you exited Redhill tunnel on the start of the racing straight!

 

[BerkshireRails]

Yes but we don't. Also raising the linespeed to 110mph for the NDL even with unlimited money is ridiculous given the alignment.

I looked at some curves on the WCML which have 110mph speed limit for a non tilting trains and they looked tighter that some North Downs Line curves.

 

[zwk500]

I looked at some curves on the WCML which have 110mph speed limit for a non tilting trains and they looked tighter that some North Downs Line curves.

Many curves on the WCML drop line speed, especially on the slows. They're also heavily canted, and heavily maintained. The gains on the WCML are worth it because it connects London to Birmingham, Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool etc.
The NDL connects Reading and Guildford to Gatwick.

 

[Agent_Squash]

A battery/25Kv bimode is the obvious fix for that branch.
If there is not enough time on 25Kv waiting at Oxenholme to keep the batteries topped up, then wire Oxenholme - Kendal.

Why add all the extra weight when you could wire it, feed it off the WCML and use the 331s that have already been ordered for it?

 

[Bald Rick]

Why add all the extra weight when you could wire it, feed it off the WCML and use the 331s that have already been ordered for it?

all what extra weight? The extra 3% that would be a battery?

 

[Agent_Squash]

all what extra weight? The extra 3% that would be a battery?

But Windermere is arguably the most simple electrification scheme in the country. It doesn’t make sense to make stock heavier (only a little, but still), much more expensive (as there would have to be a conversion scheme for 331s) and impose additional maintenance requirements.

The stock already exists for the Windermere branch as 331s - what was wrong with the original plan?

 

[MattRat]

Anywhere that can help trains become electric coming into Birmingham and Manchester. They are to the midlands and the north what London is to the south.

 

[Gareth]

No, they aren't.

 

[zwk500]

But Windermere is arguably the most simple electrification scheme in the country. It doesn’t make sense to make stock heavier (only a little, but still), much more expensive (as there would have to be a conversion scheme for 331s) and impose additional maintenance requirements.

The stock already exists for the Windermere branch as 331s - what was wrong with the original plan?

There's a major difficulty with the visual impact of OHLE in the national park from local residents and visitors.

 

[Agent_Squash]

There's a major difficulty with the visual impact of OHLE in the national park from local residents and visitors.

That’s what Chris Grayling said - but the National Park themselves don’t have a problem with it. Indeed, they support electrification, along with most other local bodies.

And I haven’t heard any complaints from local residents whenever it’s discussed (as a local resident!)

Series 2 OLE would be unobtrusive enough - yes the line is scenic, but it is largely out of the way for most of its run. The ‘OLE will destroy the scenery arguement’ is purely a political excuse - even if they didn’t use Series 2, they only need low speed OLE which could be made to work.

The line is entirely within Tim Farron’s constituency, so I expect electrification will be offered up again as a bribe at some point… but the fact we make up excuses for the easiest electrification project in the country is somewhat ridiculous.

Split this discussion into a new thread:

Is electrifying Windermere worth it?

Splitting from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/speed-upgrades-and-electrification.221504/ as it probably warrants it’s own thread… There's a major difficulty with the visual impact of OHLE in the national park from local residents and visitors. That’s what Chris Grayling said - but the...

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