capitalconnect
Member
Very true! I did not think about that! I am sure the RPIs would have a very different opinion to the Guards if you are unlucky enough to come across one!
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Locations of Permit To Travel Machines?
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JustPassingBy
Member
- Joined
- 17 Oct 2018
- Messages
- 73
Just to confirm - the machine at Little Kimble is still working (visited two days ago). The first ticket I bought had little ink printed onto it, but the second was OK. I assume dried ink through lack of use was the problem!
MetalMicky
Member
As a Priv holder, what is the best thing to do if you start from a Penalty Fare station when the ticket office is shut e.g. going from Corby to St. Pancras in the afternoon?
High Dyke
Established Member
I had this issue about a year ago at Whyteleafe South. Saturday morning, ticket office closed, ticket machine not able to sell a Priv rate ticket or capable of providing a permit to travel . I travelled to the next station (Caterham) and purchased a ticket at the ticket office there - had no issue being allowed out of the gateline, having explained the situation. However, this may not always be the case for some. Rail Staff Travel (RSTL) give no guidance about this matter, and didn't even respond to my question about that exact situation. Their T&C's document doesn't answer the question either. https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/f...T_Conditions_of_Issue_and_Use_Jun_2021_v6.pdf
centraltrains
Member
I should perhaps point out that the search list is meant to be a list of all machines in the database rather than all machines currently in existent.
The original idea was that the website would aim to document every PERTIS machine throughout time, however this is difficult as with obtaining copyright usage for images. The background colour of each tile is meant to be a guide to the machines 'status' (Green - Working, Blue - Unknown, Red - Broken, Orange - Turned Off, Grey - Removed).
The policy of the database is for photographic evidence of a machines non/existence before updating, which is perhaps a large hinderance to the timeliness of the data available as it doesn't receive many updates from the community. Just before the pandemic hit I did go out to double check many of the West Midlands removals, now marked in grey but didn't get round to completing all the stations - and haven't been out for leisure reasons since the pandemic began.
Pretty much all the data on the website was collected by around 3 enthusiasts into PERTIS machines around 4/5 years ago.
The original intent was that the website would eventually have some account system in order to allow people to quickly/easily update the status of machines themselves, however this didn't happen and once I'd toured all the PERTIS machines myself, my interests moved onto other things and I realised quite how niche/unnecessary this was.
We have an probable (but unconfirmed) updates page on https://pert.is/Removal so I'll be sure to at the Anglia ones on to there, thank you!
I know this is a relatively old thread now, and has already been recommended, but I too would give Hatton a recommendation - Have been train spotting there many times throughout the years and has always been working.
I used this machine in August but rather than redeem it when the guard came elected to keep it.
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It looks like the penalty fare poster has been up for so long that the important red ink has faded away.
Hatton, Warkwickshire still had a machine this week (27/4).
Power connected and displaying correct time.
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Lapworth still had a machine this week (28/4).
Power connected and displaying correct time.
Power connected and displaying correct time.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Lapworth still had a machine this week (28/4).
Power connected and displaying correct time.
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NSE
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Mar 2010
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- 1,920
I wonder how many are still working but just haven’t had a tickets replaced when they’ve run out haha
railwaytrack
Member
That one was removed well over a decade ago.
I don’t know if it still remains, but Windsor Central had one well into 2020, while Micheldever certainly retained it’s one in 2017 (Update - Micheldever's is gone).
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railwaytrack
Member
No the Permit To Travel machine at Micheldever was removed well over a decade ago in the late 2000s. The machine in your photo is the car park pay and display machine. There are still many of these left at various SWR stations but they are slowly being replaced. They are the same exact type of machine (Almex/Metric Autoslot AS88/AS89) which is why they look the same.
centraltrains
Member
Memory may be mistaken, but I think I saw a picture on Twitter of the station recently where in the background it looked like it had been replaced.
A recent YouTube video shows it as gone
Wonder how long until it will be until they are all gone... can't be too much longer now sadly. Personally am tempted to try and get a max value £20.00 permit before they all go (although I believe it's £30.00 max on the newer Aura machines)!
railwaytrack
Member
I never realised there was a maximum value of £20.00 for them! I presumed it would have been £99.95 as the screen can display four digits! What happens if you put more that £20.00 in it? Will it just return the money when it gets to the £20.00 maximum?
I also wonder how long they have left. I would not be surprised if there are still some left in the 2030s as some operators seem to have just forgotten about them and left them in place. Although how much longer we will have working ones is another question.
Southern Rail still have quite a few. Although they are very poorly maintained. Lewes District in particular has loads with 9 of them still remaining there (Bishopstone, Cooksbridge, Glynde, Plumpton, Southease, Southease, Newhaven Harbour, Newhaven Harbour, Newhaven Town) which have all worked at some point in the past five years as i have tickets from them all. There are also another 5 ones (Fishbourne, Ford, Nutbourne, Salfords, Warblington) that have all worked at some point in the past five years as i have tickets from them all too. But avoid these 5 ones (Aldrington, Fishersgate, Holmwood, Portslade, Warnham) as they all have them but they have all been broken for years so no point visiting. So if you are looking for some current working ones than the Southern Rail network is worth checking. Although who knows what the current status. I might go check if i get some time off work.
centraltrains
Member
Not sure which is why I want to try it (albeit admittedly not a sensible use of money...)! The source of that information is an old Thames News report (although admittedly that's an AS8 so might be different than the AS88/89s?).
railwaytrack
Member
Well if i find a working one then i might give it a try too and see what happens. I would be interested to know what happens. I doubt that many people have ever tried to put that much in it.
I wonder how the inside of the machine works. I would like to see inside one of them. As i presume that when you first put your coins in it holds the coins in a first compartment (which allows you to then press the coin return to cancel your transaction and return the coins if you wish) before then dropping the coins in to a second (and probably much larger) compartment for storage once you press the green button to issue the ticket. So i wonder how large that first compartment is and whether it could hold a large amount such as £20.00 in 5p coins.
Also as mentioned in another post above the machines are very restrictive regarding what coins they accept which can be very annoying when trying to get tickets from them.
PERTIS machines WILL accept:
• 5p coins issued in 2007 or earlier
• 10p coins issued in 2007 or earlier
• any 20p coin
• any 50p coin
• the old round £1 coin
• any £2 coin
PERTIS machines will NOT accept:
• any 1p coins
• any 2p coins
• 5p coins issued in 2008 or later
• 10p coins issued in 2008 or later
• the new twelve sided £1 coin
• any banknotes
Even with the valid coins that it does accept you sometimes have to try a couple of times before the machine will take it.
So it can be very difficult having the right coins on you that work on these machines. Quite recently i was at two Chiltern Railways stations that both had machines that looked to be working but i did not have the right coins that it accepts so i could not try it. So it can be annoying trying to use these machines.
This is my first railforums post so I hope I'm doing this right - if I'm not please correct me . Anyway I remember seeing a similar machine at brockenhurst, wanted to try it but had to get the train. Wonder if its still there.
Also I've visited a few PERTIS machines, and found that Chiltern Railways seem to maintain the one at Little Kimble very well, and it's usually working. Some of the other Chiltern ones not so much though.
railwaytrack
Member
No the PERTIS machine at Brokenhurst was removed well over ten years ago. So it is certainly not there any more. The only SWR stations with PERTIS machines still are these five, Beaulieu Road, Holton Heath, Longcross, Millbrook, Redbridge, and they all have the newer Metric Aura ones rather than the more traditional Almex/Metric Autoslot AS88/AS89 that is used by all other TOCs. But yes there are a few remaining working PERTIS machines at some Chiltern Railways stations and some Southern Rail stations.
Should have mentioned but It was like the one at Micheldever - part of the car park, not sure if it's still there
railwaytrack
Member
Ah i see. Brockenhurst might still have its car park pay and display machine. The actual PERTIS was removed over ten years ago but the car park pay and display machine (which is the same exact make and model of machine) might be there still. It certainly was when i last visited although it could have been replaced by a newer machine since. I think SWR have been upgrading a lot of their car park machines in the past few years to newer machines.
Yeah it's a shame they're being replaced but they are quite outdated now i guess, and newer machines accept card so they're easier for people to use.
It's a shame GWR have replaced their PERTIS machines, both Twyford and Windsor and Eton central's have been replaced with card readers. Would have thought they'd keep it because they have the steam train there too... Not quite sure what the readers are for but they're identical to the TfL oyster card readers, just didn't think you could use Oyster as far as Windsor.
railwaytrack
Member
Yes it is a shame there are not many Almex/Metric Autoslot AS88/AS89 left these days. Both the PERTIS versions and Car Park versions are being gradually replaced every year with newer machines. There is a version of these Car Park machines that takes cards (some SWR stations car parks used them such as the photo of the old Micheldever one above) so some of these old machines can take cards. But it is very old and outdated technology so they probably want to get them all replaced. But I like these old machines though as they have so much character to them. You just do not get that with all these newer ticket machines.
The readers are for contactless. They recently extended contactless (but NOT oyster) to all of the Thames Valley branches. So that is why they have been installed. They probably removed the PERTIS at the same time. I am not sure if there are any left on the GWR network now. I think both Didcot Parkway and Oxford had broken ones when i visited last but they might be gone now too.
Also if anyone is interested the PERTIS manual has been released under the Freedom Of Information Act here:
This might interest you @centraltrains as it answers the question that these machines can take a maximum of £20.00 or 20 coins (whatever comes first) so if you put all £1 coins in you can get a £20.00 ticket but if you put all 5p coins in you can only get a £1.00 ticket.
Strangely the manual does not mention them taking £2 coins but i have used £2 coins in them many times so they clearly do take them. I suppose if you put £2 coins you could only put ten before reaching the maximum value allowed.
centraltrains
Member
Yep! Might have bought a copy of that manual from eBay (albeit issue 1)
- just didn't want to mention as considered releasing any details would be issue on security and copyright grounds. There was a manual online about the newer Aura machines too but that got taken down quite quickly once the link was circulated.£2 coins is certainly the plan if I go and get a souvenir max value ticket! - They certainly state £2 on the front of them.
birchesgreen
Established Member
I noticed the machine at Wythall has gone, though not been to the station for a few years so unsure when. Perhaps when the WMR branding was applied.