Phone speaker noise on trains - have we given up completely?

[alex397]

I find it deeply irritating too. Maybe I’m intolerant, but it often ruins the journey for me.

With confronting these people, as others have said, it is a risky idea considering what the reaction could be. I’m not sure asking the group of youths if they could please turn down their drill music would go down well.

I don’t mind a noisy train - lots of people talking, happy children playing. That actually makes the journey more pleasant for me. But people playing anything out of speakers is deeply irritating. For me it drowns out the sound of people talking and is far too intrusive for me - to the extend I can’t concentrate on what I’m doing, can’t really enjoy the scenery, and can’t talk properly to the person I’m with.

I’m a little more tolerant with children and playing games on tablets - as an engaged child is better than a screaming child. I know how tricky it can be for a parent to keep children quiet (and certainly not always anything to do with them being a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ parent). As long as the volume isn’t excessive - I often hear parents turning the volume down. But of course there’s some ‘parents’ are happy to just let them play with it on full volume.

I still don’t understand the concept of a ‘quiet coach’. Whenever I’ve been on one, it has been anything but. I remember being on a quiet coach on a c2c train, and it was so noisy, I actually moved to a non-quiet coach!

 

[gg1]

This is an illusion. You cannot be isolated from other people and their annoying habits when you are sharing the roads with them. People don't suddenly stop bad habits when they get behind the wheel, and a cage of glass and metal does nothing to shield you from those bad habits.

The difference is selfish morons on the road are in their own little cage of glass and metal and when you do encounter them it's generally for a period of time measured in seconds.

On a train you're stuck with sharing the same large glass and metal cage with them for potentially hours.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

It's actually illegal to do so down here in Melbourne.

TRANSPORT (COMPLIANCE AND MISCELLANEOUS) (CONDUCT ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT) REGULATIONS 2015 - REG 29

Sound equipment on public transport vehicles or premises

(1) A person must not operate any sound equipment in or on a public transport vehicle or public transport premises unless—

(a) the sound from the equipment is contained by the use of headphones; or

(b) is otherwise inaudible to other persons in or on the vehicle or premises; or

(c) the person has appropriate written authorisation.

Penalty: 5 penalty units.

(2) In this regulation, "sound equipment" means a radio, cassette player, compact disc player, smart phone, tablet, television, MP3 player, a video camera or camera capable of producing video, DVD player or any other device capable of producing sound, but does not include a mobile telephone being used to make or receive telephone calls without the use of a speaker.

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[61653 HTAFC]

Wow, this thread has some spicy hot takes on it...

Yes, it's annoying when others are noisy. My solution is to use my own headphones and my own choice of entertainment, then I don't give two cares what anyone else is doing.

But all these thinly-veiled classist jibes and reference to "wastes of oxygen" are bit of an overreaction, no? I think some folk need to get out a bit more.

 

[bramling]

If it's considered too risky for staff to challenge ASB, then surely it's also too risky to challenge people travelling without a valid ticket - which is a regular part of the job. Or is there a significant difference?

In any case, as I previously said, there are several steps that can be taken without leading to any direct confrontation, but aren't. The most obvious one is a request over the PA system, either as part of a regular routine, or made as necessary according to what's going on in any particular train. It wouldn't make everyone stop, but I think many would, and it would establish the principle of what isn't ok. Not really much different from asking people to take bags off seats on busy trains, for example.

Revenue protection has tended to shift from what you’d typically experience in the 1990s, with much more emphasis on joint revenue/BTP station blocks, where the chosen location will be flooded with people. On-train is now less prevalent than it was, especially in trouble-prone areas.

As previously stated, staff also have access to resources which a passenger doesn’t - a place of safety, comms, and nowadays possibly a body cam.

 

[Class800]

Certainly one should not have loud conversations in the quiet coach.

I wrote to LNER once about this and they said it was guidance and not enforceable by the TM

 

[bengley]

I actually remember seeing an article a few years ago where a man punched the lights out of someone with his feet on the seats. This was reported to the BTP by the individual with his feet on the seats and the BTP basically said in not so many words that 'the gentleman deserved it and he should have taken his feet off the seats when asked'

Man 'knocked out by train passenger for putting his feet on seats'

A man has claimed he was knocked unconscious by a fellow train passenger for refusing to take his feet off the seat.

www.standard.co.uk

BTP officers sent Mr Holland a letter reading: “The reason is that, based on evidence available, including the independent witness account, the decision was made that [the suspect] had reasonable excuse to act in the way he did.”

 

[43066]

Really ?

I hope I'm never on your train. Why should I have to put up with music playing out loud, on any train ?

I never thought I’d find myself in agreement with you on anything. I certainly am over this, though!

 

[trainophile]

The above posts encompass two different things that I find it impossible to understand... (1) why can't people travel for a short/medium/even long period of time without having personal entertainment, and (2) ditto without having their feet elevated from the floor?

What's wrong with looking out the window or reading a book/newspaper? And as for the feet, it's endemic these days, younger people automatically shove them on the seats as soon as they sit down. If I, as a pensioner, can manage to keep my feet on the floor for several hours I cannot understand what is physically wrong wth these youngsters who are unable to.

 

[kristiang85]

I actually remember seeing an article a few years ago where a man punched the lights out of someone with his feet on the seats. This was reported to the BTP by the individual with his feet on the seats and the BTP basically said in not so many words that 'the gentleman deserved it and he should have taken his feet off the seats when asked'

Man 'knocked out by train passenger for putting his feet on seats'

A man has claimed he was knocked unconscious by a fellow train passenger for refusing to take his feet off the seat.

www.standard.co.uk

It sounds like the victim was being a bit of an a**e (and feet on seats really annoy me too), but surely violence isn't the answer to someone 'being a bit of an a**e'? Disgraceful from the BTP to be honest (unless it turns out the victim themselves was being violent first).

But indeed it shows why many of us (me included) just sit and grumble under our breath at antisocial behaviour, as you just don't know when someone might turn violent.

 

[Runningaround]

If it's considered too risky for staff to challenge ASB, then surely it's also too risky to challenge people travelling without a valid ticket - which is a regular part of the job. Or is there a significant difference?

In any case, as I previously said, there are several steps that can be taken without leading to any direct confrontation, but aren't. The most obvious one is a request over the PA system, either as part of a regular routine, or made as necessary according to what's going on in any particular train. It wouldn't make everyone stop, but I think many would, and it would establish the principle of what isn't ok. Not really much different from asking people to take bags off seats on busy trains, for example.

Do you ever see RPI's walking down the train when it's rowdy on weekend evenings? They appear at times most a travelling alone in, you will see them at station exits when they have loads of police and security for support. There are groups travelling from unmanned stations without tickets on Saturday evenings with a group of RPIs and Security they could do a whole load of ticketless travel and ASB in one go and show on lookers it'll be tackled.
But they rather hit the once in a decade traveller who couldn't understand the complex ticket selection for a 30p difference whose experience means they'll never use the train again by choice.

 

[kristiang85]

The above posts encompass two different things that I find it impossible to understand... (1) why can't people travel for a short/medium/even long period of time without having personal entertainment, and (2) ditto without having their feet elevated from the floor?

What's wrong with looking out the window or reading a book/newspaper? And as for the feet, it's endemic these days, younger people automatically shove them on the seats as soon as they sit down. If I, as a pensioner, can manage to keep my feet on the floor for several hours I cannot understand what is physically wrong wth these youngsters who are unable to.

I guess the modern world and people growing up with gadgets from their first breath means nobody knows the art of just 'enjoying peace and quiet and the view' anymore. It's really sad. I'm 36 and would say I'm part of the 'gadget generation', but I can happily amuse myself in my thoughts for ages.

 

[trainophile]

My husband has a sneaky trick nowadays - if someone nearby has their feet on the seats he gets out his phone, and pretends to be taking a photo of them. It often works quite well, with immediate removal of said feet and sometimes an apologetic "sorry" as well.

 

[py_megapixel]

I guess the modern world and people growing up with gadgets from their first breath means nobody knows the art of just 'enjoying peace and quiet and the view' anymore. It's really sad. I'm 36 and would say I'm part of the 'gadget generation', but I can happily amuse myself in my thoughts for ages.

I am generally fine without entertainment devices, but if someone else is playing something out loud I find it distracting, so I put my headphones on and listen to something to block it out!

 

[bengley]

It sounds like the victim was being a bit of an a**e (and feet on seats really annoy me too), but surely violence isn't the answer to someone 'being a bit of an a**e'? Disgraceful from the BTP to be honest (unless it turns out the victim themselves was being violent first).

But indeed it shows why many of us (me included) just sit and grumble under our breath at antisocial behaviour, as you just don't know when someone might turn violent.

I don't see the issue with said violence.

These people would probably quite happily use violence if challenged and it got a bit heated, so sod them. Some people need a smack in the face to teach them what's right.

 

[BRX]

Do you ever see RPI's walking down the train when it's rowdy on weekend evenings? They appear at times most a travelling alone in, you will see them at station exits when they have loads of police and security for support. There are groups travelling from unmanned stations without tickets on Saturday evenings with a group of RPIs and Security they could do a whole load of ticketless travel and ASB in one go and show on lookers it'll be tackled.
But they rather hit the once in a decade traveller who couldn't understand the complex ticket selection for a 30p difference whose experience means they'll never use the train again by choice.

What I see is regular ticket checks going on, on the same trains where everyone is playing noise from their gadgets. And those regular ticket checks occasionally involve telling some people their ticket isn't valid.

On a busy, local, weekend night train, I'm not so bothered about the noise.

I feel it's more of an issue on longer distance trains, which I'm likely to be sat on for a couple of hours or more. These are the trains where previously I could (mostly) settle down for a calm and enjoyable journey - but now seem to be plagued by the constant noise.

 

[kristiang85]

I don't see the issue with said violence.

These people would probably quite happily use violence if challenged and it got a bit heated, so sod them. Some people need a smack in the face to teach them what's right.

But then the solution to everything would be violence...

So I wholeheartedly disagree with it.

 

[trainophile]

Do any operators other than Avanti actually have a Quiet coach? I think Chiltern have quiet areas within coaches, and SWR have something similar, but I'd be surprised if any of the big operators e.g. TPE, XC and LNER have them.

 

[Taunton]

I still don’t understand the concept of a ‘quiet coach’. Whenever I’ve been on one, it has been anything but. I remember being on a quiet coach on a c2c train, and it was so noisy, I actually moved to a non-quiet coach!

Same with the Women's coach provided in Muslim countries like the Dubai Metro. I asked the women staff in our Dubai office what the difference was in there, and they said they never travelled in it - too noisy. All the small children wailing or running around. Have to say that aspect had never struck me before.

 

[3rd rail land]

Not a train but a bus. A young girl is watching what sounds like a kids show quite loudly for everyone to hear. The adult, presumably her mother, ahould have provided headphones/earphones for the child to use.

In fact by allowing thr child to watch a show out loud, at quite a high volume, is teaching the child it is an acceptable thing to do when it absolutely isn't.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I travel by train regularly, and every time I need to make or answer a phone call I go to the vestibule (when they are seperate from the carriage, eg. never on commuter trains). I always bring headphones on the off chance that I should want to watch or listen to something, but it has never once crossed my mind to play loud noises from my phone on any journey, even when I am the only one in the carriage! What a shame to see behaiviour standards degenerating in this way. Even purposefully booking the quiet carriage on InterCity trains does little to help, as the family of 7 taking up two bays at the far end of the carriage, with 4 tablets playing different children's TV shows at full blast, destroys any peace & quiet that may have been had!

 

[43172]

I'm not one to usually ask someone to turn their music down, but have on occasion done so without too issue from the other person (although was given the look of dissaproveal once). When travelling I'll move to the nearest vestabule when conducting a call as to not annoy those who may not want to overhear my call. If watching a downloaded program or listening to a podcast I'll plug my headphones in not have the volume too loud for others to hear, refraining from laughing out loud when there is the urge, maybe a smile and a silent chuckle but no more. If the noise is too loud than I will consider moving to another coach as a last resort, but with some rolling stock familys (Aventra, S-stock, Desiro City), the lack of end carriage areas doesn't help solve the issue.

Do any operators other than Avanti actually have a Quiet coach? I think Chiltern have quiet areas within coaches, and SWR have something similar, but I'd be surprised if any of the big operators e.g. TPE, XC and LNER have them.

GWR have it in the 80x's wether that be a 5, 9 or 10 car configaration, normally coach A but coaches A and G in a 10 car formation. XC only offer it on services that are HST operated if memory serves right, normally coach G where the TGS is located. Not sure on LNER, might be the same arrangement in Azuma services as those on GWR, and located at coach B (?) on the 91+mk4 hauled services (coach nearest loco), not travelled enough on LNER to be 100% sure. Can't comment on TPE as I've not travelled on them, maybe someone else could help out.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I'm not one to usually ask someone to turn their music down, but have on occasion done so without too issue from the other person (although was given the look of dissaproveal once). When travelling I'll move to the nearest vestabule when conducting a call as to not annoy those who may not want to overhear my call. If watching a downloaded program or listening to a podcast I'll plug my headphones in not have the volume too loud for others to hear, refraining from laughing out loud when there is the urge, maybe a smile and a silent chuckle but no more. If the noise is too loud than I will consider moving to another coach as a last resort, but with some rolling stock familys (Aventra, S-stock, Desiro City), the lack of end carriage areas doesn't help solve the issue.



GWR have it in the 80x's wether that be a 5, 9 or 10 car configaration, normally coach A but coaches A and G in a 10 car formation. XC only offer it on services that are HST operated if memory serves right, normally coach G where the TGS is located. Not sure on LNER, might be the same arrangement in Azuma services as those on GWR, and located at coach B (?) on the 91+mk4 hauled services (coach nearest loco), not travelled enough on LNER to be 100% sure. Can't comment on TPE as I've not travelled on them, maybe someone else could help out.

LNER's 225 sets have Coach B, their 9-car 'Azumas' have coach H

 

[All Line Rover]

I still don’t understand the concept of a ‘quiet coach’. Whenever I’ve been on one, it has been anything but. I remember being on a quiet coach on a c2c train, and it was so noisy, I actually moved to a non-quiet coach!

Pleasingly on Avanti it tends to be relatively well respected, with most journeys quiet throughout and passengers moving to the vestibule to take calls. There is a noticeable difference in noise levels compared to other carriages. Chiltern is good too.

Virgin's first class quiet coach was heaven but is long gone. Now the standard premium area.

Respect depends on the passenger demographic, which varies according to the time of day and areas served.

 

[ChrisC]

Pleasingly on Avanti it tends to be relatively well respected, with most journeys quiet throughout and passengers moving to the vestibule to take calls. There is a noticeable difference in noise levels compared to other carriages. Chiltern is good too.

Virgin's first class quiet coach was heaven but is long gone. Now the standard premium area.

Respect depends on the passenger demographic, which varies according to the time of day and areas served.

I’ve also found the quiet coach XC HSTs very good. I think it helps with it being coach G at the end of the train and people do not have to pass through. The last time I used it to travel from Derby down to Exeter it was a lovely peaceful relaxing journey. So good to be able to concentrate upon reading and generally looking out of the window. Whenever I travel from Nottingham down to London with EMR I usually travel 1st Class these days. It’s not a bad price for a Super Off Peak Return with a Senior Railcard. It’s not a quiet coach but usually a nice peaceful journey and worth paying extra for. It’s good to have the option of a quieter environment for longer journeys.

 

[mmh]

If you can get a train used by business commuters then you're sorted. I plan my itinerary around them whenever I can. I went to London last week as a leisure traveller and when I was planning my return train back to Worcester I deliberately chose the 18:58 from Paddington. Full of business people heading back home to the Oxfordshire countryside. They all get on and set up their laptops in front of them. All I heard all journey was just the gentle tapping of laptop keyboards. It was absolute bliss.

Oh, there's little worse on a train. Looking forward to a nice relaxing journey, then someone sits next to you and gets their laptop out. It's immensely rude but covered with a false veneer of acceptability. I'd much rather someone watching a video or listening to music than tap tap tap thud. The majority aren't working, they're pretending to. Pointlessly looking at emails, spreadsheets etc. Why? Be better at your job and do it in your office.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 May 2022 ==

It's actually illegal to do so down here in Melbourne.

Download Menu

That reminds me of the kind of over regulation I learned to really disagree with while living in California. There's just no need to legislate for everything, other than to provide work for legislators and prosecutors. I'd say I hope we don't go down that route, but fear it's inevitable we will.

 

[Strathclyder]

In reference to the point of confronting loud/obnoxious folk who do this on public transport, I usually keep my head down and silently grumble as I'm a skinny/wiry lad who's already had to endure being assaulted and I've have no interest whatsoever in having my head used as a makeshift punching bag again simply daring to tell someone on the train to keep the noise down. For as much as I dislike this kind of behaviour, the risk of having a repeat of the above incident is just too much.

 

[bramling]

The above posts encompass two different things that I find it impossible to understand... (1) why can't people travel for a short/medium/even long period of time without having personal entertainment, and (2) ditto without having their feet elevated from the floor?

What's wrong with looking out the window or reading a book/newspaper? And as for the feet, it's endemic these days, younger people automatically shove them on the seats as soon as they sit down. If I, as a pensioner, can manage to keep my feet on the floor for several hours I cannot understand what is physically wrong wth these youngsters who are unable to.

One can only put this down to education. People no longer seem to have the ability to occupy their time in a constructive way.

Look at 2020 - a significant amount of the population were handed a load of paid free time, and many of them chose to pee it up the wall with inane stuff like crowding to the beach. Hobbies in particular are generally derided in this country.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, there's little worse on a train. Looking forward to a nice relaxing journey, then someone sits next to you and gets their laptop out. It's immensely rude but covered with a false veneer of acceptability. I'd much rather someone watching a video or listening to music than tap tap tap thud. The majority aren't working, they're pretending to. Pointlessly looking at emails, spreadsheets etc. Why? Be better at your job and do it in your office.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 May 2022 ==


That reminds me of the kind of over regulation I learned to really disagree with while living in California. There's just no need to legislate for everything, other than to provide work for legislators and prosecutors. I'd say I hope we don't go down that route, but fear it's inevitable we will.

It is a Byelaw offence here too.

 

[bramling]

It is a Byelaw offence here too.

These sorts of things shouldn't need byelaws. It doesn't help that our political leaders don't set any kind of example, nor promote any standards of decency. This doesn't just apply to Johnson and the current political cohort, but goes back certainly to the Blair years where we had a prime minister who essentially wanted to stick his finger up, and to some extent to the Major years. The difference in those days was that Major and his government were - rightly - pilloried for it, now such conduct seems to be seen as increasingly acceptable.