Trivia: Modern Day Routes with the wrong allocations

[scosutsut]

Just for discussion so not to mess up the under-rated thread. Routes today with the wrong allocations in your opinion. For example: Minis where Midi's would be better? Lightweights where Heavyweights would be better? Single instead of decker? Old vehicles on premium routes? Bus Seated vehicles on long range services? Coaches on service work? Vice versa on all of the above too!

I'll put Borders Buses E200 MMCs on the 253 on the list. Really nice vehicles but they get hammered up and down the A1 / A199 without much respite. I can't help but feel they needed heavyweight's for this route.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Single deckers on first Glasgow NUM 2 , 3 ,9 when they need deckers or at least to be partial deckers
Deckers on First Glasgow X8 when it could be singles

 

[route101]

X4/X5 First Solent use Streetlites on these routes when an E200MMC would be better.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yorkshire Tiger had an annoying habit of running Solos on the 233 (now D1) whilst the 436 (now X1) had full-size buses carrying fresh air.

 

[Lewlew]

X4/X5 First Solent use Streetlites on these routes when an E200MMC would be better.

The Streetlites are longer aren't they?

 

[RT4038]

Most routes in my area, where empty, obtrusive, noisy full size buses need to be substituted by quiet unobtrusive minibuses that are more likely to grab the imagination of the public at large.

 

[SSmith2009]

Can think of quite a few arriva operated services in Leicestershire area that need newer buses or deckers

5/5A to Melton Mowbray,
29/29A to Coalville/Swadlincote,
126/127 to Shepshed/Coalville,
X3 to Market Harborough - was a sapphire branded service now anything goes onto it but does need deckers or previous 30 min frequency restoring.

Then we have routes like the 6 to Thurmaston that often has deckers on but could easily be done with a solo or versa.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The Streetlites are longer aren't they?

Both the Streetlite-Max (63xxx) and E200MMC* (67xxx) are 11.5M.

*First have a small number of 67xxx E200MMCs with the larger 6 cylinder engine as such the rear overhang is 30cm longer making them 11.8M.

 

[Statto]

Stagecoach allocating Enviro E300s to the 1, X1, Liverpool - Chester, buses are often rammed at the start the route, that passengers can be left waiting for the next bus, although allocation now is mostly E400s or MMC400s, a couple of E300s do still get allocated to the route.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Borders buses 253 and x95 south of hawick, long-distance routes that could definitely use something like the plaxton pantherLE

Singers for the 101 group of services between Dumfries, biggar and Edinburgh

 

[route101]

Borders buses 253 and x95 south of hawick, long-distance routes that could definitely use something like the plaxton pantherLE

Singers for the 101 group of services between Dumfries, biggar and Edinburgh

They had a coach as a trial on the X95 few years back.

Yes, Stagecoach could put something more comfortable than a E300 on the 101.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Can think of quite a few arriva operated services in Leicestershire area that need newer buses or deckers

5/5A to Melton Mowbray,
29/29A to Coalville/Swadlincote,
126/127 to Shepshed/Coalville,
X3 to Market Harborough - was a sapphire branded service now anything goes onto it but does need deckers or previous 30 min frequency restoring.

Then we have routes like the 6 to Thurmaston that often has deckers on but could easily be done with a solo or versa.

I think these you list generally get double decks when available.
The 29/29A has traditionally been a single deck route, double decks were routinely allocated due to social distancing on busy Amazon journeys which of course isn't now necessary.

 

[Eyersey468]

Most routes in my area, where empty, obtrusive, noisy full size buses need to be substituted by quiet unobtrusive minibuses that are more likely to grab the imagination of the public at large.

It depends what else the bus does, if the routes in question fit around schools for example it is more cost effective to have one bus out all day rather than having a decker go back to the depot to swap to a midi to swap back again later.

 

[Ken H]

It depends what else the bus does, if the routes in question fit around schools for example it is more cost effective to have one bus out all day rather than having a decker go back to the depot to swap to a midi to swap back again later.

Is this really true? What are the costs of running a decker against an Optare solo size bus?

 

[Dai Corner]

Is this really true? What are the costs of running a decker against an Optare solo size bus?

The decker would obviously cost more to run than the Solo, but owning and running both would cost even more.

 

[Eyersey468]

Is this really true? What are the costs of running a decker against an Optare solo size bus?

A decker can be used on pretty much anything where it will fit, a midi can't be used on a school run unless it is lightly loaded, so if you use a decker for a school run then swap to a midi it means you have 2 vehicles in use where one would do, so increasing insurance and maintenance costs more than offsetting the 2-3mpg fuel saving from using a Solo or Dart. Our deckers average about 6-8mpg compared to 9-10 for a short E200

 

[Andy Pacer]

The decker would obviously cost more to run than the Solo, but owning and running both would cost even more.

Quite right. It's like owning two cars, a small one and a larger one, the larger one just used on shopping day when its capacity is needed. Not viable.

 

[sk688]

Greenline 724 between Heathrow and Harlow needs something better than e200 MMCs imo for such a long route.

Getting rid of coaches on the X5 between Oxford and Bedford was also a move back comfortwise imo (i understand the eastern bit between Bedford and Cambridge needed to be decked for capacity purposes).

 

[PeterC]

A decker can be used on pretty much anything where it will fit, a midi can't be used on a school run unless it is lightly loaded, so if you use a decker for a school run then swap to a midi it means you have 2 vehicles in use where one would do, so increasing insurance and maintenance costs more than offsetting the 2-3mpg fuel saving from using a Solo or Dart. Our deckers average about 6-8mpg compared to 9-10 for a short E200

And a swap is unlikely to be feasible unless the route runs close to the depot. Our town services are run from a depot about 15 miles away.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Greenline 724 between Heathrow and Harlow needs something better than e200 MMCs imo for such a long route

The route is long but the average journeys less so. People don't do it end to end (except enthusiasts) - it's a succession of overlapping flows.

 

[miklcct]

The use of single deckers on flagship routes such as morebus m1 / m2 and Yellow Buses 1 / 1a / 1b which can actually get full.

They really should be operated using wholly double decker fleet.

 

[philthetube]

people use it to Heathrow from along the full length of it.

 

[Andy Pacer]

The route is long but the average journeys less so. People don't do it end to end (except enthusiasts) - it's a succession of overlapping flows.

I heard there has been a Scania Omnicity trialed on it recently.

 

[SteveHFC]

Getting rid of coaches on the X5 between Oxford and Bedford was also a move back comfortwise imo (i understand the eastern bit between Bedford and Cambridge needed to be decked for capacity purposes).

Same with the 99 between Milton Keynes and Luton Airport- along with the loss of luggage storage for travellers to/from the airport. Definitely find myself holding on to something more on the deckers on the 99 now rather than the coaches.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

people use it to Heathrow from along the full length of it.

The vast, vast, vast majority of people are using it for flows along the route - very few people will spend 3 and a quarter hours on a bus. Get on in Harlow, see how many travel west of Hertford.....very few.

 

[SW Buses]

Most routes in my area, where empty, obtrusive, noisy full size buses need to be substituted by quiet unobtrusive minibuses that are more likely to grab the imagination of the public at large.

Good idea, so a fleet of buses for the day and a fleet for the evenings? Economics of a mad house spring to mind.

 

[M803UYA]

The use of single deckers on flagship routes such as morebus m1 / m2 and Yellow Buses 1 / 1a / 1b which can actually get full.

They really should be operated using wholly double decker fleet.

In the case of the 1/1a/1b - double deckers used to run through to Poole but in practice were higher loaded east of Bournemouth (to Christchurch) where Yellows patronage remains the strongest and which they primarily serve now. With fewer double deckers.
We've gone through a pandemic in the last two years where loadings are said to be 80% of what they were three years ago. I would say there is less need now for double deck buses on those routes than there would have been three years ago if the loadings are less.
With large single deckers you have a seating capacity of around 40 but standing capacity of 25-30 passengers. So on the high frequencies in use in Bournemouth and Poole you have an overall capacity equal to that of a double decker being provided. Over the common sections of the m1/m2 you have a bus every three/four minutes - so plenty of capacity on offer to handle large crowds of people and those vehicles can do the work of a double deck just as well. The operating costs for a large single decker are cheaper than a double deck vehicle, as is the purchase price.
Running a more expensive vehicle would come at a cost to the customer - in the form of higher fares as these services are commercially provided.

 

[miklcct]

In the case of the 1/1a/1b - double deckers used to run through to Poole but in practice were higher loaded east of Bournemouth (to Christchurch) where Yellows patronage remains the strongest and which they primarily serve now. With fewer double deckers.
We've gone through a pandemic in the last two years where loadings are said to be 80% of what they were three years ago. I would say there is less need now for double deck buses on those routes than there would have been three years ago if the loadings are less.
With large single deckers you have a seating capacity of around 40 but standing capacity of 25-30 passengers. So on the high frequencies in use in Bournemouth and Poole you have an overall capacity equal to that of a double decker being provided. Over the common sections of the m1/m2 you have a bus every three/four minutes - so plenty of capacity on offer to handle large crowds of people and those vehicles can do the work of a double deck just as well. The operating costs for a large single decker are cheaper than a double deck vehicle, as is the purchase price.
Running a more expensive vehicle would come at a cost to the customer - in the form of higher fares as these services are commercially provided.

There were numerous circumstances last year a single deck bus on the route refused to stop and pick me up because it was full, which I made a complaint and boarded the next bus which was operated by the other operator.

The frequency was every 3 / 4 minutes on the common corridor but where the branches separate it would become every 7 - 8 minutes, which can go up to 10 - 12 minutes when there is traffic. Then a single decker can be fully loaded if it happens to arrive a school at the moment pupils finish the school.

 

[LordCreed]

The X24 between Newcastle and Sunderland used to be operated by Omnilinks, which provided a comfortable if underutilised route.

Since Covid these have been replaced with the E300 buses used on the other routes. Whilst capacity isn't an issue, journey comfort is significantly reduced. It's a shame that they couldn't get their hands on some of the Gold E300s used elsewhere.

Over the common sections of the m1/m2 you have a bus every three/four minutes

Problem is the traffic always led to significant bunching. The first couple of buses would be rammed, and the ones behind less loaded. I can't help but thing reducing the headways and using deckers would provide a better service overall.

 

[Dai Corner]

There were numerous circumstances last year a single deck bus on the route refused to stop and pick me up because it was full, which I made a complaint and boarded the next bus which was operated by the other operator.

The frequency was every 3 / 4 minutes on the common corridor but where the branches separate it would become every 7 - 8 minutes, which can go up to 10 - 12 minutes when there is traffic. Then a single decker can be fully loaded if it happens to arrive a school at the moment pupils finish the school.

To wait a maximum of 12 minutes for a bus isn't bad; think how many routes have one bus an hour or less. You've shown your sensitivity to higher fares in other threads. Would you pay more if all your buses were double deckers and you were more likely to get on the first one that arrived?