Freight vs passenger incidents

Tophat · 4 May 2022

Hi all,

Something that’s baffled me a bit but does is seem mythical knowledge that fright drivers seem to have more spads, safety of line incidents compared to passenger drivers?
Is it due to lack of route knowledge/ rush of learning new routes or a case of not having consistency over a route?

A variety of people/ variations of wagons/ locos that cause drivers to sometimes forget things where’s some pax drivers will only drive 1/2 versions of traction?

RailUK Forums

Dieseldriver · 4 May 2022

Where is the common knowledge? I’m genuinely curious to see the stats of number of SOL incidents verses number of Drivers on the passenger side and the freight side.
Also worth considering that Freight Drivers can’t stop short, fail to call or have an overrun which may skew things,

Efini92 · 4 May 2022

Tophat said:
Hi all,

Something that’s baffled me a bit but does is seem common knowledge that fright drivers seem to have more spads, safety of line incidents compared to passenger drivers?
Is it due to lack of route knowledge/ rush of learning new routes or a case of not having consistency over a route?

A variety of people/ variations of wagons/ locos that cause drivers to sometimes forget things where’s some pax drivers will only drive 1/2 versions of traction?

Where are you getting your figures from?

Tophat · 4 May 2022

Seems to be a common thing whenever I’ve spoken to someone. Not a fact and figures thing hence me asking the question.
My opinion is sol incidents would be more common in pax due to station overruns fail to calls.

Like I said this is from speaking to some folk regarding this and may well be a freight vs passenger standoff in terms of who’s bests

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==

Efini92 said:
Where are you getting your figures from?

As said not figures hence the reason for asking!!!!!

Gloster · 4 May 2022

If this is true, and I have no knowledge of the statistics or the accuracy of the statement, one possible reason could be that freight trains have a much wider variety of loading, braking curves and characteristics, types of motive-power, etc. than passenger trains. This gives a freight driver a lot more factors to take into account and so more ways of messing it up.

Efini92 · 4 May 2022

Tophat said:
Seems to be a common thing whenever I’ve spoken to someone. Not a fact and figures thing hence me asking the question.
My opinion is sol incidents would be more common in pax due to station overruns fail to calls.

Like I said this is from speaking to some folk regarding this and may well be a freight vs passenger standoff in terms of who’s bests

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==

As said not figures hence the reason for asking!!!!!

I’m sure the ORR or RSSB will have a list somewhere.

zwk500 · 4 May 2022

Dieseldriver said:
Also worth considering that Freight Drivers can’t stop short, fail to call or have an overrun which may skew things,

This is not quite true - A freight could stop short at a loop, fail to call at a crew relief (very unlikely) or overrun a stopping point for reversal/operational reasons.

Dieseldriver · 4 May 2022

zwk500 said:
This is not quite true - A freight could stop short at a loop, fail to call at a crew relief (very unlikely) or overrun a stopping point for reversal/operational reasons.

Yes, I’m fully aware of that, whether it’s recorded or not is a different matter entirely…..

zwk500 · 4 May 2022

Dieseldriver said:
Yes, I’m fully aware of that, whether it’s recorded or not is a different matter entirely…..

A very fair point!

Iskra · 4 May 2022

Could it be quite simply that freight trains are usually heavier and therefore take longer to stop and are thus less forgiving if a mistake is made?

skyhigh · 4 May 2022

Iskra said:
Could it be quite simply that freight trains are usually heavier and therefore take longer to stop and are thus less forgiving if a mistake is made?

Though on balance they generally go slower than passenger services

zwk500 · 4 May 2022

Iskra said:
Could it be quite simply that freight trains are usually heavier and therefore take longer to stop and are thus less forgiving if a mistake is made?

So far there's been no confirmation that the OP's premise is correct, has there?

Iskra · 4 May 2022

zwk500 said:
So far there's been no confirmation that the OP's premise is correct, has there?

No, but equally it has not been definitively refuted.

Tophat · 4 May 2022

zwk500 said:
So far there's been no confirmation that the OP's premise is correct, has there?

Just a question, if that’s allowed to be asked anymore

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==

Tophat said:
Hi all,

Something that’s baffled me a bit but does is seem mythical knowledge that fright drivers seem to have more spads, safety of line incidents compared to passenger drivers?
Is it due to lack of route knowledge/ rush of learning new routes or a case of not having consistency over a route?

A variety of people/ variations of wagons/ locos that cause drivers to sometimes forget things where’s some pax drivers will only drive 1/2 versions of traction?

Changed from common to mythical knowledge to keep those happy

zwk500 · 4 May 2022

Tophat said:
Just a question, if that’s allowed to be asked anymore

Certainly allowed to ask questions but you launched straight into asking why something was happening before establishing it actually was.

Here you assert, in the form of a question, that freight drivers have more Safety incidents than passenger drivers.

Tophat said:
Something that’s baffled me a bit but does is seem common knowledge that fright drivers seem to have more spads, safety of line incidents compared to passenger drivers?
...
Seems to be a common thing whenever I’ve spoken to someone.

Here you ask why, before getting the answer to part 1.

Tophat said:
Is it due to lack of route knowledge/ rush of learning new routes or a case of not having consistency over a route?
A variety of people/ variations of wagons/ locos that cause drivers to sometimes forget things where’s some pax drivers will only drive 1/2 versions of traction?

I just think that when questioning professional standards on a public board which many drivers, it might be good form to determine if the premise is true before asking why they make more mistakes.

66701GBRF · 4 May 2022

Cat A Spad figures from RSSB here...



	For previous fiscal years, train miles and SPAD numbers are summed over the entire fiscal year
	Only SPADs occurring on Network Rail or Amey Infrastructure Wales infrastructure are included
	Only SPADs where the driver of the train was fully or partially responsible are included



Passenger national rate	Rate per Million Train Miles all (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)
	2012-2013	2013-2014	2014-2015	2015-2016	2016-2017	2017-2018	2018-2019	2019-2020	2020-2021	2021-2022
	0.51	0.65	0.62	0.52	0.54	0.58	0.65	0.78	0.56	0.59


Passenger train operators	Rate per Million Train Miles all (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)
	2012-2013	2013-2014	2014-2015	2015-2016	2016-2017	2017-2018	2018-2019	2019-2020	2020-2021	2021-2022
Arriva Rail London	0.64	1.83	0.61	0.65	1.80	1.11	1.05	2.10	1.02	1.17
Avanti West Coast	0.09	0.22	0.23	0.18	0.18	0.00	0.18	0.36	0.06	0.31
c2c	0.95	0.72	0.00	0.46	0.44	0.88	0.22	0.67	0.27	0.54
Chiltern	0.29	0.43	0.88	0.14	0.25	0.37	0.00	0.25	0.17	0.33
CrossCountry	0.05	0.25	0.10	0.15	0.15	0.15	0.39	0.39	0.08	0.37
East Midlands Railway	0.50	0.50	0.57	0.28	0.49	0.56	0.56	0.43	0.50	0.28
Eurostar	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
First Hull Trains	1.09	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
Govia Thameslink Railway	0.80	0.72	0.61	0.81	1.07	1.03	0.87	1.05	0.89	0.70
Grand Central	0.76	0.00	0.63	0.62	0.00	0.00	0.63	0.66	0.00	0.75
Great Western Railway	0.61	0.58	0.64	0.56	0.48	0.30	0.85	0.61	0.31	0.46
Greater Anglia	0.76	1.09	0.75	0.49	0.44	0.51	0.90	0.66	0.71	0.56
Heathrow Express	0.00	1.03	2.13	2.14	0.00	1.05	0.00	2.33	0.00	0.00
London North Eastern Railway	0.15	0.07	0.22	0.00	0.14	0.35	0.41	0.34	0.09	0.14
London Underground	1.60	2.95	2.84	1.84	1.84	1.90	1.05	2.54	2.51	3.21
Merseyrail	0.49	1.23	0.98	0.49	0.00	0.27	1.51	1.25	0.75	0.89
Nexus	1.46	0.00	0.72	0.73	0.72	0.72	0.72	3.75	1.00	0.00
North Yorkshire Moors Railway	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
Northern	0.32	0.81	0.59	0.45	0.46	0.55	0.93	1.20	0.57	0.69
ScotRail	0.28	0.42	0.51	0.55	0.45	0.61	0.64	0.72	0.63	0.63
South Western Railway	0.73	0.76	0.64	0.83	0.88	0.70	0.45	1.10	0.40	0.44
Southeastern	0.58	0.86	1.13	0.74	0.68	0.50	0.63	0.36	0.77	1.19
TfL Rail				0.00	0.00	0.94	0.39	0.96	0.78	0.77
TransPennine Express	0.29	0.10	0.25	0.33	0.09	0.09	0.23	0.15	0.12	0.31
Transport for Wales	0.76	0.90	0.96	0.60	0.67	1.08	1.22	1.28	1.22	0.88
West Coast Railway	3.54	6.95	6.70	0.00	5.23	0.00	4.56	5.04	0.00	0.00
West Midlands Trains	0.68	0.66	0.85	0.64	0.39	0.96	0.50	0.58	0.39	0.58



Freight National Rate	Rate per Million Train Miles all (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)
	2012-2013	2013-2014	2014-2015	2015-2016	2016-2017	2017-2018	2018-2019	2019-2020	2020-2021	2021-2022
	1.85	1.86	2.12	2.22	1.94	2.60	1.70	2.23	1.40	1.65



Freight train operators	Rate per Million Train Miles all (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)
	2012-2013	2013-2014	2014-2015	2015-2016	2016-2017	2017-2018	2018-2019	2019-2020	2020-2021	2021-2022
DB Cargo	2.26	2.33	2.55	2.86	1.95	3.40	2.38	2.22	1.22	1.87
Devon and Cornwall Railways	20.20	7.84	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	56.07	0.00	0.00	0.00
Direct Rail Services	1.60	1.84	0.99	1.17	1.43	2.06	1.27	0.59	1.06	1.93
Freightliner	0.87	1.45	1.79	1.79	2.15	1.94	1.17	2.02	1.46	1.40
GB Railfreight	2.86	0.89	2.01	1.73	1.69	2.24	1.12	3.07	1.70	1.57



Infrastructure Companies	Number of SPADs (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)
	2012-2013	2013-2014	2014-2015	2015-2016	2016-2017	2017-2018	2018-2019	2019-2020	2020-2021	2021-2022
Alstom	0	1	1	0	1	0	1	0	0	1
Amey Rail	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Babcock Rail	1	1	0	4	1	0	0	0	1	0
Balfour Beatty Rail	3	1	0	2	2	0	3	5	0	5
Colas	2	4	6	3	10	5	6	8	7	5
Departmental	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Harsco Rail	0	2	2	0	1	1	0	1	0	0
Network Rail	1	1	3	0	1	0	0	0	0	0
Other	1	1	2	0	2	2	5	4	3	3
VolkerRail	0	0	3	6	0	1	2	1	0	0


	Million Passenger Train Miles (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)
Passenger Miles (Millions)	2012-2013	2013-2014	2014-2015	2015-2016	2016-2017	2017-2018	2018-2019	2019-2020	2020-2021	2021-2022
	319.97	328.49	332.62	335.07	333.64	333.86	339.77	351.90	266.63	289.28

	Million Freight Train Miles (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)
Freight Miles (Millions)	2012-2013	2013-2014	2014-2015	2015-2016	2016-2017	2017-2018	2018-2019	2019-2020	2020-2021	2021-2022
	29.72	30.15	29.30	25.18	24.26	23.11	23.47	23.32	21.44	23.70

Tophat · 4 May 2022

zwk500 said:
Certainly allowed to ask questions but you launched straight into asking why something was happening before establishing it actually was.

Here you assert, in the form of a question, that freight drivers have more Safety incidents than passenger drivers.

Here you ask why, before getting the answer to part 1.

I just think that when questioning professional standards on a public board which many drivers, it might be good form to determine if the premise is true before asking why they make more mistakes.

Well as I am currently pax driver looking to move into freight and it was also mentioned around the mess table today that freight incidents are more commonly known. So yes I am asking a question on professional standards in a profession I am apart of and intrigued to know.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==

66701GBRF said:
Cat A Spad figures from RSSB here...

For previous fiscal years, train miles and SPAD numbers are summed over the entire fiscal year

Only SPADs occurring on Network Rail or Amey Infrastructure Wales infrastructure are included

Only SPADs where the driver of the train was fully or partially responsible are included

Passenger national rate
Rate per Million Train Miles all (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)

2012-2013
2013-2014
2014-2015
2015-2016
2016-2017
2017-2018
2018-2019
2019-2020
2020-2021
2021-2022

0.51
0.65
0.62
0.52
0.54
0.58
0.65
0.78
0.56
0.59

Passenger train operators
Rate per Million Train Miles all (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)

2012-2013
2013-2014
2014-2015
2015-2016
2016-2017
2017-2018
2018-2019
2019-2020
2020-2021
2021-2022
Arriva Rail London
0.64
1.83
0.61
0.65
1.80
1.11
1.05
2.10
1.02
1.17
Avanti West Coast
0.09
0.22
0.23
0.18
0.18
0.00
0.18
0.36
0.06
0.31
c2c
0.95
0.72
0.00
0.46
0.44
0.88
0.22
0.67
0.27
0.54
Chiltern
0.29
0.43
0.88
0.14
0.25
0.37
0.00
0.25
0.17
0.33
CrossCountry
0.05
0.25
0.10
0.15
0.15
0.15
0.39
0.39
0.08
0.37
East Midlands Railway
0.50
0.50
0.57
0.28
0.49
0.56
0.56
0.43
0.50
0.28
Eurostar
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
First Hull Trains
1.09
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
Govia Thameslink Railway
0.80
0.72
0.61
0.81
1.07
1.03
0.87
1.05
0.89
0.70
Grand Central
0.76
0.00
0.63
0.62
0.00
0.00
0.63
0.66
0.00
0.75
Great Western Railway
0.61
0.58
0.64
0.56
0.48
0.30
0.85
0.61
0.31
0.46
Greater Anglia
0.76
1.09
0.75
0.49
0.44
0.51
0.90
0.66
0.71
0.56
Heathrow Express
0.00
1.03
2.13
2.14
0.00
1.05
0.00
2.33
0.00
0.00
London North Eastern Railway
0.15
0.07
0.22
0.00
0.14
0.35
0.41
0.34
0.09
0.14
London Underground
1.60
2.95
2.84
1.84
1.84
1.90
1.05
2.54
2.51
3.21
Merseyrail
0.49
1.23
0.98
0.49
0.00
0.27
1.51
1.25
0.75
0.89
Nexus
1.46
0.00
0.72
0.73
0.72
0.72
0.72
3.75
1.00
0.00
North Yorkshire Moors Railway
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
Northern
0.32
0.81
0.59
0.45
0.46
0.55
0.93
1.20
0.57
0.69
ScotRail
0.28
0.42
0.51
0.55
0.45
0.61
0.64
0.72
0.63
0.63
South Western Railway
0.73
0.76
0.64
0.83
0.88
0.70
0.45
1.10
0.40
0.44
Southeastern
0.58
0.86
1.13
0.74
0.68
0.50
0.63
0.36
0.77
1.19
TfL Rail

0.00
0.00
0.94
0.39
0.96
0.78
0.77
TransPennine Express
0.29
0.10
0.25
0.33
0.09
0.09
0.23
0.15
0.12
0.31
Transport for Wales
0.76
0.90
0.96
0.60
0.67
1.08
1.22
1.28
1.22
0.88
West Coast Railway
3.54
6.95
6.70
0.00
5.23
0.00
4.56
5.04
0.00
0.00
West Midlands Trains
0.68
0.66
0.85
0.64
0.39
0.96
0.50
0.58
0.39
0.58

Freight National Rate
Rate per Million Train Miles all (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)

2012-2013
2013-2014
2014-2015
2015-2016
2016-2017
2017-2018
2018-2019
2019-2020
2020-2021
2021-2022

1.85
1.86
2.12
2.22
1.94
2.60
1.70
2.23
1.40
1.65

Freight train operators
Rate per Million Train Miles all (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)

2012-2013
2013-2014
2014-2015
2015-2016
2016-2017
2017-2018
2018-2019
2019-2020
2020-2021
2021-2022
DB Cargo
2.26
2.33
2.55
2.86
1.95
3.40
2.38
2.22
1.22
1.87
Devon and Cornwall Railways
20.20
7.84
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
56.07
0.00
0.00
0.00
Direct Rail Services
1.60
1.84
0.99
1.17
1.43
2.06
1.27
0.59
1.06
1.93
Freightliner
0.87
1.45
1.79
1.79
2.15
1.94
1.17
2.02
1.46
1.40
GB Railfreight
2.86
0.89
2.01
1.73
1.69
2.24
1.12
3.07
1.70
1.57

Infrastructure Companies
Number of SPADs (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)

2012-2013
2013-2014
2014-2015
2015-2016
2016-2017
2017-2018
2018-2019
2019-2020
2020-2021
2021-2022
Alstom
0
1
1
0
1
0
1
0
0
1
Amey Rail
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Babcock Rail
1
1
0
4
1
0
0
0
1
0
Balfour Beatty Rail
3
1
0
2
2
0
3
5
0
5
Colas
2
4
6
3
10
5
6
8
7
5
Departmental
2
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Harsco Rail
0
2
2
0
1
1
0
1
0
0
Network Rail
1
1
3
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
Other
1
1
2
0
2
2
5
4
3
3
VolkerRail
0
0
3
6
0
1
2
1
0
0

Million Passenger Train Miles (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)
Passenger Miles (Millions)
2012-2013
2013-2014
2014-2015
2015-2016
2016-2017
2017-2018
2018-2019
2019-2020
2020-2021
2021-2022

319.97
328.49
332.62
335.07
333.64
333.86
339.77
351.90
266.63
289.28

Million Freight Train Miles (Current Fiscal Year to period 13)
Freight Miles (Millions)
2012-2013
2013-2014
2014-2015
2015-2016
2016-2017
2017-2018
2018-2019
2019-2020
2020-2021
2021-2022

29.72
30.15
29.30
25.18
24.26
23.11
23.47
23.32
21.44
23.70

Thank you, does someway show that freight has a slightly higher percentage of incidents although minimal.

66701GBRF · 4 May 2022

Tophat said:
Well as I am currently pax driver looking to move into freight and it was also mentioned around the mess table today that freight incidents are more commonly known. So yes I am asking a question on professional standards in a profession I am apart of and intrigued to know.

I don't think its a case of professional standards. I'd say its likely due to how many red signals a freight driver comes up against and the generally poorer shift patterns compared to passenger drivers.

Tophat · 4 May 2022

66701GBRF said:
I don't think its a case of professional standards. I'd say its likely due to how many red signals a freight driver comes up against and the generally poorer shift patterns compared to passenger drivers.

That’s one of my thoughts, also thought working to position lights could also cause issues especially they layout of some

martin2345uk · 4 May 2022

Also bear in mind things like engineering possessions which are rife with risks, shunting about in yards with all sorts of position lights and stop boards, more frequent "unusual" moves, and yes, a lot of red aspects!

SynthD · 4 May 2022

What was going on at Devon and Cornwall Railways?

ExRes · 4 May 2022

SynthD said:
What was going on at Devon and Cornwall Railways?

Yes, I don't do stats so I'd be interested to know what 56.07 means in plain English, 4 years at 0.00 and then another 3 years at 0.00 with this 56.07 in the middle?

dannydm1 · 4 May 2022

I drive both freight and passenger, without seeing the figures I would have assumed that the above was the case.

-Simply due to the number of red signals freight trains will stop at. On a 70mile journey you may come to a stand at 20 signals which greatly outnumbers the amount you would expect to see on a passenger route.

-Route knowledge may pay a small part, ie - having a booked job on a route you haven't driven for months on end. Or you may have never driven the route since signing it, then find yourself on that job many months later.

- braking capabilities, ie - if you find yourself wrong routed on a unit, you may have a good change of stopping in time. Highly unlikely on freight.

- shift ( much more unsociable / long hours on freight, you may be on days to night's to days etc - therefore fatigue comes into play

Along with various other reasons

LickeyIncliner · 4 May 2022

ExRes said:
Yes, I don't do stats so I'd be interested to know what 56.07 means in plain English, 4 years at 0.00 and then another 3 years at 0.00 with this 56.07 in the middle?

I think that's what you'd expect to see for a small operator - assuming their drivers, equipment and operations are comparable to others, most years they will have no SPADs at all; then if they're not doing very many train miles, then one SPAD will give a large number in the table. The value of 56.07 is about one SPAD every 18,000 miles. Whether they actually operated only 18,000 train miles that year and had one SPAD, or operated 1,800,000 train miles and had 100 SPADs, we can't tell from this table. It could be that in some years they have had contracts that were particularly challenging in the ways just listed by @dannydm1 - these would have more impact on the overall results for a small operator than for a large one

Runningaround · 4 May 2022

dannydm1 said:
I drive both freight and passenger, without seeing the figures I would have assumed that the above was the case.

-Simply due to the number of red signals freight trains will stop at. On a 70mile journey you may come to a stand at 20 signals which greatly outnumbers the amount you would expect to see on a passenger route.

-Route knowledge may pay a small part, ie - having a booked job on a route you haven't driven for months on end. Or you may have never driven the route since signing it, then find yourself on that job many months later.

- braking capabilities, ie - if you find yourself wrong routed on a unit, you may have a good change of stopping in time. Highly unlikely on freight.

- shift ( much more unsociable / long hours on freight, you may be on days to night's to days etc - therefore fatigue comes into play

Along with various other reasons

Could being on your own, (no staff on board travelling passenger etc) CCTV or other onboard and at unsociable hours when fewer managers and rail staff are around play a factor as getting caught pushing your luck is less likely?
A bit like van drivers speeding at night more than the day as getting caught is less likely.

dannydm1 · 4 May 2022

Runningaround said:
Could being on your own, (no staff on board travelling passenger etc) CCTV or other onboard and at unsociable hours when fewer managers and rail staff are around play a factor as getting caught pushing your luck is less likely?
A bit like van drivers speeding at night more than the day as getting caught is less likely.

Probably now. As there's not much you can do mainline in regards to pushing your luck....your still going to adhere to speed limits /rules regs etc.

If you mess up its only going to cause issues for yourself so it's not worth while cutting corners to save you the odd minute here and there.

notadriver · 4 May 2022

Runningaround said:
Could being on your own, (no staff on board travelling passenger etc) CCTV or other onboard and at unsociable hours when fewer managers and rail staff are around play a factor as getting caught pushing your luck is less likely?
A bit like van drivers speeding at night more than the day as getting caught is less likely.

Comparing professional train drivers to white van drivers is a massive insult.

Runningaround · 4 May 2022

dannydm1 said:
Probably now. As there's not much you can do mainline in regards to pushing your luck....your still going to adhere to speed limits /rules regs etc.

If you mess up its only going to cause issues for yourself so it's not worth while cutting corners to save you the odd minute here and there.

Are Freight Trains fitted with a ''Blackbox'' type of device or in-cab recording CCTV? All the stats are obviously those known about I'm thinking if you are being watched by devices does this cut down chances.
And are Passenger train drivers more aware that their could be anyone on that train that could be a manager, even passengers can now use phones with speedometers it only takes someone uploading a clip onto youtube showing your speed with time and date unwittingly shown passing a station to drop the driver in it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==

notadriver said:
Comparing professional train drivers to white van drivers is a massive insult.

I'm comparing the situation as a ''White Van Drivers'' can to be professional drivers it's that when fewer eyes are around chances of getting caught are less.

dcsprior · 4 May 2022

Could some of it be the lower speeds of freight skewing things?

If the figures are per million train miles, but passenger trains go significantly faster, then the difference per million hours may be far less pronounced

zwk500 · 5 May 2022

Runningaround said:
Are Freight Trains fitted with a ''Blackbox'' type of device or in-cab recording CCTV? All the stats are obviously those known about I'm thinking if you are being watched by devices does this cut down chances.

All trains are fitted with OTMR equipment, which does a black box function yes. It is a condition of operating on the mainline.

Runningaround said:
I'm comparing the situation as a ''White Van Drivers'' can to be professional drivers it's that when fewer eyes are around chances of getting caught are less.

White van drivers are typically not professional drivers in the sense that they are not earning money through their driving (like taxi drivers). They are driving from one site of employment to another, so time driving is time not earning.

Thanks to all those who have shared their insights from driving trains, and thanks to whoever provided the stats!

Freight vs passenger incidents

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