Phone speaker noise on trains - have we given up completely?

[BRX]

Remember when the main irritation was being able to hear tinny noise leaking from headphones, and if you were the culprit, someone might actually ask you to turn the volume down? I'd happily return to that time now.

I feel that things seem to have rapidly gone downhill in the past few years, such that quite a large number of people have now decided it's fine to play whatever you like on your phone or tablet or laptop speakers.

It's become so widespread that I now wonder if it would be me who's out of step with social norms, if I were to ask someone to turn it off or get some headphones.

In the past, there might be one person in a carriage causing the noise irritation and a number of people around looking sufficiently annoyed that you would feel you'd have some backup if you decided to be the challenger.

Doesn't feel so much like that now.

Quiet coaches are not all that much help. I don't think I've ever seen a member of railway staff all someone to turn something down - even in quiet coaches.

So, has society decided it's acceptable and I just have to get used to it, and bring some noise cancelling headphones on any journey where I don't want to have to listen to several people's choice in music/YouTube videos/football matches/speakerphone calls simultaneously?

For longer journeys I think I'd actually pay a little extra to sit in a quiet coach with a fully enforced zero tolerance policy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I am utterly sick of it, it is downright antisocial.

To me we need to modify the relevant Byelaw to simply prohibit, as a strict liability offence, playing out loud of devices. At present it requires it to cause annoyance, and so it is hard to say staff should enforce without being asked, which is how I think it should be.

 

[py_megapixel]

I was on a fairly busy Northern train on a Sunday morning a few week ago, and someone was playing Tik Tok videos seemingly consisting purely of distortion noises, screaming, and people shouting profanities at the top of their voice. The fact that the other 50-odd people in the carriage might possibly not want to hear this seemingly went right over his head.

 

[BRX]

Yes, I am utterly sick of it, it is downright antisocial.

To me we need to modify the relevant Byelaw to simply prohibit, as a strict liability offence, playing out loud of devices. At present it requires it to cause annoyance, and so it is hard to say staff should enforce without being asked, which is how I think it should be.

My impression is that TOCs have little interest in doing anything about it.

At a minimum, notices in carriages and maybe even over the tannoy - a friendly "please be considerate to other passengers and use headphones if you want to listen to audio on your device".

I wonder what would happen if the policy was for staff to request people turn down the noise (with no attempt at enforcement as such).

To me it seems that it simply doesn't occur to some people that it would be a problem - and this is reinforced as more and more people start doing it.

 

[ComUtoR]

To me we need to modify the relevant Byelaw to simply prohibit, as a strict liability offence, playing out loud of devices

Can we also prohibit loud conversations ?

Is it the noise level you are sick of or that it's a sound that you don't like ?

 

[mmh]

Yes, I am utterly sick of it, it is downright antisocial.

To me we need to modify the relevant Byelaw to simply prohibit, as a strict liability offence, playing out loud of devices. At present it requires it to cause annoyance, and so it is hard to say staff should enforce without being asked, which is how I think it should be.

"Excuse me, do you mind..."

The modern fascination for more regulation, more laws is not a good thing. Use what we already have. Or, perhaps, stop being miserable

 

[BRX]

Can we also prohibit loud conversations ?

Is it the noise level you are sick of or that it's a sound that you don't like ?

Straightforward question - does listening to someone else's choice of music or speech or whatever, through a tinny speaker, not bother you in the slightest? Is it that it's something that bothers some people a lot, and others not at all, and that's why folk do it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can we also prohibit loud conversations ?

Certainly one should not have loud conversations in the quiet coach.

Is it the noise level you are sick of or that it's a sound that you don't like ?

It is the type of sound (most commonly irritating music from video games which could be muted, or childrens' television entertainment with inane tunes etc). Human conversation in person fades much more into the background.

Simply wear headphones.

FWIW it is one of a few reasons I favour dedicated family coaches on long distance trains, it could be explicitly permitted there.

 

[DelW]

Can we also prohibit loud conversations ?

Is it the noise level you are sick of or that it's a sound that you don't like ?

*Most* people in small groups automatically adjust their speaking volume as ambient noise around them fluctuates (or even stop talking completely e.g. through tunnels when the noise level increases). Unfortunately, *some* people with phones just turn them up to high levels, complete with resulting distortion, which makes them much more annoying than normal conversation.

But when we have MPs watching phone porn in the Palace of Westminster, I think we've lost the argument

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Excuse me, do you mind..."

I have done that a couple of times, and I am physically threatening looking enough that it has worked (often to applause). But there are plenty of people who would fear confronting a "scally"* looking young family, and they should not have to suffer it either.

* Apologies for the stereotype, but there does seem to be a correlation between certain social groups (most often identified by being dressed in sportswear** and often being covered in tattoos) and bringing up kids knowing their rights and nothing about their responsibilities, both legal and to others.

** I am not a fancy dresser and indeed made a long train journey in Standard Premium today dressed like that, though I don't have any tattoos. But I did manage to listen to music through my headphones and not out loud!

The modern fascination for more regulation, more laws is not a good thing. Use what we already have. Or, perhaps, stop being miserable

Nothing miserable about wanting antisocial behaviour (which is so easily avoided by way of wearing headphones) not to be carried out in a shared space.

 

[BRX]

* Apologies for the stereotype, but there does seem to be a correlation between certain social groups (most often identified by being dressed in sportswear** and often being covered in tattoos) and bringing up kids knowing their rights and nothing about their responsibilities, both legal and to others.

Something's changed recently though - it's something I'm seeing done by people well outside of your stereotype demographic.

Things I have to listen to whether or not I want to, now include radio 4 podcasts and nature documentaries.

 

[ComUtoR]

Straightforward question - does listening to someone else's choice of music or speech or whatever, through a tinny speaker, not bother you in the slightest?

What 'bothers' me about it, is that someone is listening to music through a tinny speaker. How people stand such poor music quality is what 'bothers' me the most. However, we live in a very different society now and once in which standards have changed. So no, its a marginal annoyance I tend to tolerate; just as much as I tolerate people having a conversation with the person next to them so loud that I can hear it halfway down the carriage.

It is the type of sound (most commonly irritating music from video games which could be muted, or childrens' television entertainment with inane tunes etc). Human conversation in person fades much more into the background.

But it isn't. People filter sounds in various ways. Whether its a simple conversation or music blaring.

Simply wear headphones.

Why ? The current culture is for music playing out of a phone speaker, years ago it was 'boom boxes' If anything, its just the device has shifted but the culture hasn't.

FWIW it is one of a few reasons I favour dedicated family coaches on long distance trains, it could be explicitly permitted there.

Yes, little children should be seen and not heard :/

*Most* people in small groups automatically adjust their speaking volume as ambient noise around them fluctuates

People adjust their noise level either up or down. In a public space, everyone is competing so talking to someone next to you can be a challenge and you raise your voice, the next person down carriage, increases their headphone volume and then leaks nose, the volume just gets louder.


When in a public place you have no greater rights than the next person. It doesn't matter if its headphone leak, overly loud phone conversations, drunken revelry, or romantic PDAs. It's a public space for everyone. May I humbly suggest another form of transport for those who prefer a more personal space. The car seems to be a popular choice on this forum.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2022 ==

I have done that a couple of times, and I am physically threatening looking enough that it has worked (often to applause).

So basically a bully then.

 

[py_megapixel]

When in a public place you have no greater rights than the next person. It doesn't matter if its headphone leak, overly loud phone conversations, drunken revelry, or romantic PDAs. It's a public space for everyone. May I humbly suggest another form of transport for those who prefer a more personal space. The car seems to be a popular choice on this forum.

I would actually suggest that playing music out loud is much more of treating the public space as a personal one than wanting someone else not to. By playing music out loud you are doing something that actually modifies the space to your preferences at the expense of others'.

 

[kristiang85]

What 'bothers' me about it, is that someone is listening to music through a tinny speaker. How people stand such poor music quality is what 'bothers' me the most. However, we live in a very different society now and once in which standards have changed. So no, its a marginal annoyance I tend to tolerate; just as much as I tolerate people having a conversation with the person next to them so loud that I can hear it halfway down the carriage.



But it isn't. People filter sounds in various ways. Whether its a simple conversation or music blaring.



Why ? The current culture is for music playing out of a phone speaker, years ago it was 'boom boxes' If anything, its just the device has shifted but the culture hasn't.



Yes, little children should be seen and not heard :/



People adjust their noise level either up or down. In a public space, everyone is competing so talking to someone next to you can be a challenge and you raise your voice, the next person down carriage, increases their headphone volume and then leaks nose, the volume just gets louder.


When in a public place you have no greater rights than the next person. It doesn't matter if its headphone leak, overly loud phone conversations, drunken revelry, or romantic PDAs. It's a public space for everyone. May I humbly suggest another form of transport for those who prefer a more personal space. The car seems to be a popular choice on this forum.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2022 ==



So basically a bully then.

Consideration for others has always been a cornerstone of life in public (especially in the confined premises of public transport). And yes, telling your children to be quiet, not talking unnecessarily loudly and not playing music in such settings is good manners, and sadly seems to be dying out pretty quickly.

It seems to be getting particularly bad in the UK; in many other countries I travel to, there seems to be less of a problem.

I actually find tinny speakers incredibly irritating to the point of unpleasant (as I do ASMR - I found I couldn't stand it when my wife listened to it when working at home; from my research I subsequently did it is an adverse reaction to certain sounds that is pretty common).

 

[ComUtoR]

I would actually suggest that playing music out loud is much more of treating the public space as a personal one than wanting someone else not to. By playing music out loud you are doing something that actually modifies the space to your preferences at the expense of others'.

At the moment, as in the past, playing music out loud is a cultural norm. If I get any train, at any time of the day, I fully expect there to be music playing out loud.

 

[py_megapixel]

At the moment, as in the past, playing music out loud is a cultural norm. If I get any train, at any time of the day, I fully expect there to be music playing out loud.

I don't see any evidence of this to be honest... people who play things out loud, however annoying they may be, are still vastly in the minority. And most of the time it seems to not be music.

 

[cuccir]

In all honesty, it probably does annoy me less than it would have done 5-10 years ago. It has become more normal.

I still think it reflects poorly on the prepetrator, particularly if it is constant, though equally I'd say the sharing of a single short video every now and then (1 every 20 minutes or so, lasting less than a minute, the times there are arbitrary but you get my point) is probably now within the realms of 'decent' behaviour. But I'd say that for me, constant or repeated playing at normal volumes falls in the "undesirable but acceptable" range rather than the "beyond the pale" range of behaviour.

 

[seagull]

Experienced an absolutely awful journey on North Wales Coast recently, where the family (and friends) from hell got on, and decided to use a quite large bluetooth speaker to blast music at deafeningly high volume on a full and standing train. Kids were crying, dogs barking, but they were having a party so stuff everyone else. And these days, who dares to say anything to them?
In fact it has made me use the car a lot more again recently as I'm not prepared to endure that.

 

[jon0844]

I do often wonder why people now conduct their phone calls on speakerphone, as if they're on a task for The Apprentice. I mean, on the one hand it means you can at least get both sides of a conversation, but on the other it seems rather annoying - although I guess you could just join in the conversation...

The other thing that I am seeing quite a bit is people managing to converse on a handsfree video call. It goes to show how good onboard Wi-Fi or mobile data coverage is if people can maintain a video chat on a train journey. Again, maybe you should join in and 'photo bomb' the conversation! I mean, it's public transport so nothing is private!!

 

[ComUtoR]

I don't see any evidence of this to be honest... people who play things out loud, however annoying they may be, are still vastly in the minority.

It's very much 'youth culture'. One of the trains I've had the 'pleasure' of getting on a morning is the Hogwarts Express. Getting those morning school run trains really is an eye opener. Music blaring is probably the last of your worries.

Which, on the flip side, brings you to adult behaviour on trains. Getting a 'vomit comet' back from London on a Saturday night is another eye opener. The theatre crowd is just as vocal as the football fans. The drunks are a nightmare but the Friday night after work club is just as hellish. That juxtaposition of cultures is what creates this annoyance with each other. We can all hide behind 'manners' and 'society' but its the same cat skinned many different ways. There is just a clash where people do not want to accept each other.

it's Tik Tok or Instagram rubbish.

Which is entirely subjective.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

The car definitely has a lot of plus points these days, it's reliable, often less polluting, cheaper, more comfortable... Its a shame really that its gone this way

 

[JaJaWa]

I brought up the Chinese solution in the thread about this a few months ago

Could TOCs make it compulsory to wear headphones if listening to electronic devices?

Do any TOCs insist on compulsory headphones for electronic devices? I know quiet coaches exist, but I'd be all in favour of mandatory headphones. I regularly use Avanti, northern and TFW services. All of which have someone who is ignorant enough to think the whole carriage wants to hear their...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

But it isn't. People filter sounds in various ways. Whether its a simple conversation or music blaring.

Autistic people, for one, often can't. Thus, this statement is in favour of anti autistic discrimination.

Why ? The current culture is for music playing out of a phone speaker, years ago it was 'boom boxes' If anything, its just the device has shifted but the culture hasn't.

Because hardly anyone walked around with a "boom box"/"ghetto blaster" on their shoulder, but probably over 90% of adult rail passengers possess a smartphone or tablet.

Yes, little children should be seen and not heard :/

Their mobile devices should be seen and not heard, yes. The sound of happy, playing children is a nice sound. The sound of tinny video game tunes isn't.

When in a public place you have no greater rights than the next person. It doesn't matter if its headphone leak, overly loud phone conversations, drunken revelry, or romantic PDAs. It's a public space for everyone. May I humbly suggest another form of transport for those who prefer a more personal space. The car seems to be a popular choice on this forum.

You are aware of Railway Byelaw 7.1, right? Here it is.

7. Music, sound, advertising and carrying on a trade​

1. except with written permission from an operator no person on the railway shall, to the annoyance of any person:
   1. sing or
   2. use any instrument, article or equipment for the production or reproduction of sound

So yes, I actually do have more rights than someone using such a device, because if it annoys me (and it will, I can assure you) then they are committing an offence.

So basically a bully then.

I would accept "vigilante" if you wish, as I would be seeking to enforce the law in the absence of the appropriate authorities being bothered to do so - analogous, perhaps, to asking the local "yoof" to pack in vandalising the bus shelter, or as I did once chucking someone off the bus who was refusing to pay and verbally abusing the driver. But not bully, because the law is on my side in defining the behaviour as unacceptable.

 

[STINT47]

In Japan it's considered rude to answer your phone whilst in a train carriage. You either move to the vestibule or wait. If someone started playing music out loud or a film I dread to think how much offence it would cause.

There are certainly times when I wish I was either Japanese or was born 40 years earlier when mobile phones, tablets and poetable music systems were something only seen in Star Trek

 

[ComUtoR]

I would accept "vigilante" if you wish, as I would be seeking to enforce the law in the absence of the appropriate authorities being bothered to do so

vigilante

1. a person who tries in an unofficial way to prevent crime, or to catch and…

dictionary.cambridge.org

a person who tries in an unofficial way to prevent crime, or to catch and punish someone who has committed a crime, especially because they do not think that official organizations, such as the police, are controlling crime effectively. Vigilantes usually join together to form groups.

Maybe you should don a mask and a cape ?

 

[ExRes]

This thread couldn't present a better case for car use if it tried

 

[AlterEgo]

The internet is so special. Social media is just about the only place someone will tell you to stop being miserable because you don’t want to hear Die Hard at full volume coming out of someone else’s laptop on the train.

 

[BRX]

I fly quite rarely - last time was about 4 years ago.

Is it the same on planes now? And if not why not?

 

[bramling]

At the moment, as in the past, playing music out loud is a cultural norm. If I get any train, at any time of the day, I fully expect there to be music playing out loud.

I’m not sure I’d agree it’s ever become a cultural norm. If I’m on a train in a position of authority (i.e. on duty as staff), I will instruct people to turn it off. If it’s behind a driving cab, well you can probably guess the rest! During Covid I’ve been doing a fair bit of travelling in rear cabs, which is an enlightening experience to say the least, the look on faces is a picture when the door opens on some oik doing something they’re not supposed to be doing…

 

[Paul Jones 88]

I discovered that being clumsy with a plastic glass full of water quite an effective way of silencing nuisance devices.