Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[jnjkerbin]

What's the difference between 'open to the public' and 'open for revenue service'?

 

[buz33]

According to DiamondGeezer here, Crossrail will open on Sunday 15th May

DiamondGeezer has prefixed that with...

The Crossrail Rumour Mill
(things people have told me that may or may not be true)

 

[JonathanH]

According to DiamondGeezer here, Crossrail will open on Sunday 15th May

The item is called 'Crossrail Rumour Mill' - interestingly one suggestion is that it won't run on Sundays which would enable further testing.

 

[The exile]

What's the difference between 'open to the public' and 'open for revenue service'?

Free on Sunday - start charging on Monday? Or “stations open on Sunday for the nosey but no public trains till Monday”? Or “trains will run as and when on Sunday - timetable starts on Monday”?

 

[JaJaWa]

It’ll only be open Monday to Saturday 06:30 until 22:30 initially, which I believe is experience gained from MTR’s line launches in mainland China.

This is pretty much confirmed as far as I know.

If it opens on the 15 May that will be the same date as Hong Kong's own "Crossrail" which is pretty nice!

 

[Horizon22]

There are two planned dates - one for May and a backup for about 4 weeks later in June is what I've heard.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2022 ==

Free on Sunday - start charging on Monday? Or “stations open on Sunday for the nosey but no public trains till Monday”? Or “trains will run as and when on Sunday - timetable starts on Monday”?

I happened to be in Copenhagen on holiday about 3/4 years ago and completely incidentally I was there on a Sunday when a new line opened and it was free that day - absolutely packed!

 

[absolutelymilk]

DiamondGeezer has prefixed that with...

Edited to reflect that

 

[Snow1964]

What's the difference between 'open to the public' and 'open for revenue service'?

Presumably either free, or no trains running so can view the stations

I am not sure how they could do a free day without people escaping through the underground connections to other lines and getting free ride on those too, there are lots of underground, overground and BR stations with open barriers on Sundays where it would be easy to do because on train ticket checks are virtually non existent, unless they position revenue staff in all the connections passageways to prevent changing free to other lines.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Presumably either free, or no trains running so can view the stations

I am not sure how they could do a free day without people escaping through the underground connections to other lines and getting free ride on those too, there are lots of underground, overground and BR stations with open barriers on Sundays where it would be easy to do because on train ticket checks are virtually non existent, unless they position revenue staff in all the connections passageways to prevent changing free to other lines

Maybe they could require people to tap in but not charge them if they tap out at a Crossrail station

 

[subk2010]

probably means open for the "invited" person on 15th May and open for general public on 16th?

 

[kevin_roche]

There has never been a reason why XR couldn't have sponsored a spec, except money and time. If they set the standard, they're automatically compatible.

It would make more sense for Siemens to do that, wouldn't it? Or perhaps manufacturers are not allowed, only train operators? I guess one issue would be the radio system since there are currently processes underway to update the radio specifications for ETCS radio (LTS possibly?) and that may be different to what Siemens Trainguard MT uses which is a modified WiFi system.

I think crossrail will use dedicated tracks to old oak common . It currently uses dedicated tracks from the depot to reach the core. And there is no way that sharing with other services would allow crossrail to reach 24 tph west of the core

These dedicated tracks currently do not have cbtc but there is no reason why they couldn't be upgraded.

There is a slight conflict coming out of Paddington via Westbourne Park to Old Oak Common. Certainly on the WB line there is an inevitable short conflict on Line 5/6 with anything running on the Up Relief (albeit this will be a small number of trains into Paddington HL when Crossrail runs through).

Yes after I posted it did occur to me that there are two separate tracks most of the way from Westboune park to Old Oak Depot. I checked the line on google maps and I agree, that there would not be a huge change required to fix that conflict.

 

[Hophead]

They could open up all the underground connections at the stations. If people want to hang around a platform when there's no trains running, that's up to them. Come Monday, they'd just need to open the front door, and everything would be ready downstairs.

 

[Stephen42]

Presumably either free, or no trains running so can view the stations

I am not sure how they could do a free day without people escaping through the underground connections to other lines and getting free ride on those too, there are lots of underground, overground and BR stations with open barriers on Sundays where it would be easy to do because on train ticket checks are virtually non existent, unless they position revenue staff in all the connections passageways to prevent changing free to other lines.

It could also be the trains remain unadvertised with passengers allowed to ride and that for revenue allocation purposes unadvertised trains are assumed to have no passengers. Given the Abbey Wood - Paddington trains for 15th May were cancelled off last week no trains at all might be more likely.

 

[matt_world2004]

There is an advantage in opening the underground connections in that it allows step free access to underground services. My guess however is that for the sunday it would be free, with the barriers open like new years eve on the basis that service is likely to be disrupted by opening related festivities.

People who travel free between just Crossrail stations using the central line and other services, are likely to form a small portion of the userbase given that Crossrail is quicker in most circumstances.

 

[AlbertBeale]

There is an advantage in opening the underground connections in that it allows step free access to underground services. My guess however is that for the sunday it would be free, with the barriers open like new years eve on the basis that service is likely to be disrupted by opening related festivities.

People who travel free between just Crossrail stations using the central line and other services, are likely to form a small portion of the userbase given that Crossrail is quicker in most circumstances.

Criossrail might well be quicker than the Central Line between stations where Crossrail stops - however, the (generally very lengthy) interchange involved between Crossrail and other lines makes it extremely unlikely that it's worth using Crossrail in central London for other than point-to-point all-Crossrail journeys. For anything that might be done by a combination of Crossrail and ordinary Underground routes, that could be done with fewer changes without Crossrail, then using Crossrail is unlikely to be attractive.

 

[matt_world2004]

Criossrail might well be quicker than the Central Line between stations where Crossrail stops - however, the (generally very lengthy) interchange involved between Crossrail and other lines makes it extremely unlikely that it's worth using Crossrail in central London for other than point-to-point all-Crossrail journeys. For anything that might be done by a combination of Crossrail and ordinary Underground routes, that could be done with fewer changes without Crossrail, then using Crossrail is unlikely to be attractive.

Yes the barriers would only be opened at crossrail stations


From the 16th May Crossrail is skipping bond Street according to real time trains that night indicate it's opening . On Sunday 15th may there appears to be runs between Chadwell heath and Old oak only

 

[Snow1964]

Yes the barriers would only be opened at crossrail stations


From the 16th May Crossrail is skipping bond Street according to real time trains that night indicate it's opening . On Sunday 15th may there appears to be runs between Chadwell heath and Old oak only

This is inconsistent with TfL published closures which show TfL rail disruptions Saturday 8th, Sunday 9th then nothing on TfL rail lines weekend of 15th and 16th.

Then early morning disruption Sunday 22nd Paddington to Heathrow (although why anyone would deliberately timetable works during first week of service is beyond me). Strangely it seems the Heathrow-Ealing part of the work finishes hour and half earlier than the Ealing-Paddington part on 22nd May unless I am misreading it.

Paddington to Heathrow Terminal 5 until 06:30,
Paddington to Ealing Broadway until 08:00

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/planned-track-closures.pdf

 

[JonathanH]

Then early morning disruption Sunday 22nd Paddington to Heathrow (although why anyone would deliberately timetable works during first week of service is beyond me). Strangely it seems the Heathrow-Ealing part of the work finishes hour and half earlier than the Ealing-Paddington part on 22nd May unless I am misreading it.

Given Paddington to Heathrow has been running for a long time now and doesn't go in the tunnel, a Sunday closure on 22 May is neither here nor there, even if it starts running under the Elizabeth Line brand.

The different times for engineering work just means that Heathrow trains start and finish at Ealing Broadway instead of Paddington once Heathrow services start for the day.

It is all very clear on RTT - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...22-05-22/0500-0805?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[miklcct]

The core will be run as a completely self-contained section initially.

As it's known that maximum capacity of a railway line is achieved by running it completely self-contained with a single stopping pattern, if the capacity of the core is fully used up in this stage, it will not be possible to introduce through working to the lines to Reading to Shenfield afterwards.

Is it likely to happen that the amount of passenger using it will force TfL to max out the capacity of the line before introducing through working?

 

[Watershed]

As it's known that maximum capacity of a railway line is achieved by running it completely self-contained with a single stopping pattern, if the capacity of the core is fully used up in this stage, it will not be possible to introduce through working to the lines to Reading to Shenfield afterwards.

Reliability is certainly enhanced by being self-contained, but there is no connection between capacity and being self-contained. Trains to Reading and Shenfield will be introduced in due course.

Is it likely to happen that the amount of passenger using it will force TfL to max out the capacity of the line before introducing through working?

I hardly think so. Demand will be lower than was forecast when the line was proposed. In the event it gets overcrowded, I don't think that will really force TfL's hand. Plenty of Tube lines are already overcrowded and it's generally just accepted as a fact of life.

 

[LLivery]

There is an advantage in opening the underground connections in that it allows step free access to underground services. My guess however is that for the sunday it would be free, with the barriers open like new years eve on the basis that service is likely to be disrupted by opening related festivities.

People who travel free between just Crossrail stations using the central line and other services, are likely to form a small portion of the userbase given that Crossrail is quicker in most circumstances.

The ELL was free on the day it opened in May 2010. They gave out free Travelcards at stations along the route, so technically London's transport network was free to us. Not sure if people from other stations were fare-paying, however.

 

[Horizon22]

I hardly think so. Demand will be lower than was forecast when the line was proposed. In the event it gets overcrowded, I don't think that will really force TfL's hand. Plenty of Tube lines are already overcrowded and it's generally just accepted as a fact of life.

345s are also of course incredibly spacious trains compared to say, the Central line. Longer as well. Don't think I've ever been on a crush-loaded 345 (some relatively busy ones yes), although I'm sure others have.

 

[JaJaWa]

Some of the final stickers now being applied to station entrances



Source: https://twitter.com/kiestothecity/status/1521246217459671045

 

[Acton1991]

Looking good!

 

[thomalex]

I think it’s a mistake not putting ‘Station’ as a suffix on the Elizabeth line stations. Yes on the Paddington example there’s a roundel tacked in the side but approaching down those stairs on the left it’s not exactly clear what it is.

The Farringdon example looks much better and I presume because it’s a combined station it gets the Underground look.

 

[matt_world2004]

The branding seems inconsistent between stations they should have gone for the universal blue bar as used on underground stations and overground with capitalised letters. and a purple roundel at the side to distnguish mode.

 

[Acton1991]

The branding seems inconsistent between stations they should have gone for the universal blue bar as used on underground stations and overground with capitalised letters. and a purple roundel at the side to distnguish mode.

Agree it's inconsistent. Interesting how they have used 'Thameslink' vs 'National Rail'.

 

[theking]

The branding seems inconsistent between stations they should have gone for the universal blue bar as used on underground stations and overground with capitalised letters. and a purple roundel at the side to distnguish mode.

Not really.

TFL use colours on station entrances.

That Paddington picture looks like the crossrail entrance and the Farringdon one the ThamesLink entrance.

Blue is underground.

 

[JaJaWa]

Not really.

TFL use colours on station entrances.

That Paddington picture looks like the crossrail entrance and the Farringdon one the ThamesLink entrance.

Blue is underground.

Yes the Farringdon one is Elizabeth line and Thameslink. So why’s it Underground blue?

 

[Mojo]

Yes the Farringdon one is Elizabeth line and Thameslink. So why’s it Underground blue?

Farringdon is an LU station and Paddington is a Crossrail station. Of course keeping the inconsistencies, the Long Lane entrance at Farringdon has the purple bar and Crossrail roundel only, as does the new entrance at Liverpool St (actually Moorgate Underground).