Class 465 preservation?

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The fact some of you are suggesting they should be hauled or worse, battery/hydrogen powered totally baffles me. What's the point of preserving a unit if it's not going to be run as it was? And no, most preserved railways are not electrified, so I would say have one as a static display or turn it into a tin can. I don't mind either way.

 

[gc4946]

I think a 466 will be preserved and possibly also a 465 but will depend on their condition at time of withdrawal.
The only thing is which 465 sub-class will end up in preservation, more likely a 465/0 or 465/1.
Unless a preservation group has permission to run it under its own power on the national network I forsee any survivors will remain on static display, or at best, made fit to be towed to a railway open day (eg EPB Preservation Group's 2EPB and MLV)

 

[D365]

The fact some of you are suggesting they should be hauled or worse, battery/hydrogen powered totally baffles me. What's the point of preserving a unit if it's not going to be run as it was?

Because maintaining and crewing a single-digit fleet of electric multiple units for non-commercial purposes would be an insane money sink.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Because maintaining and crewing a single-digit fleet of electric multiple units for non-commercial purposes would be an insane money sink.

That's exactly why I said the next sentence, the one you didn't quote. I said it seems better just to keep a coach as a static display or scrap it.

 

[bramling]

Have the Thumpers fared that much worse than most of the 1st gen DMMUs though? Most of those only have one or two units in preservation - and a number of classes missed preservation entirely - 120, 123, 124, 125 spring to mind - sure there are others.

And a number of railways do use their Thumpers - and others such as the Swindon & Cricklade have theirs undergoing restoration - in their case hampered by an arson attack which wrote off one car.

I wouldn't say they've fared *badly*, just that they've not fared as well as might have been expected, which to be honest is something of a surprise. Barring the lack of forward view (which in all honesty is only ever a "thing" for a small handful of people lucky enough to secure the right seats), they tick more boxes than a 1st-gen DMU, especially from an enthusiast point of view. Try finding a running Thumper on your average weekend, and you're likely to have to make quite a jaunt, if one is running at all.

 

[A0]

I wouldn't say they've fared *badly*, just that they've not fared as well as might have been expected, which to be honest is something of a surprise. Barring the lack of forward view (which in all honesty is only ever a "thing" for a small handful of people lucky enough to secure the right seats), they tick more boxes than a 1st-gen DMU, especially from an enthusiast point of view. Try finding a running Thumper on your average weekend, and you're likely to have to make quite a jaunt, if one is running at all.

Try finding most things apart from a few "usual suspects" e.g. Black 5, Industrial Hunslet / Austerity running on an "average" weekend. Most heritage railways only have 1 item of stock running on an average weekend - it's only the large players like North York Moors, East Lancs, Great Central, Gloucestershire & Warwickshire, Severn Valley or West Somerset that can justify more than one train in operation. Which line, if any has got a Deltic in operation this weekend or an LNER mainline tender engine or a Class 101 DMU ?

 

[Razorblades]

... Networkers are liked.

Are they? By sufficient folk with deep pockets? I can't stand the things, but to those of the right persuasion, I'd say 'fill your boots.'

 

[D365]

That's exactly why I said the next sentence, the one you didn't quote. I said it seems better just to keep a coach as a static display or scrap it.

What I meant to add is that, while this obviously isn't suitable for mainline charters, the prospect of converting a multiple unit for low speed battery operation on a heritage line is intriguing. I would be very impressed if this could be achieved with mainline stock, but something like LTTG's Project 483 will hopefully serve to demonstrate whether or not this is technically/commercially feasible.

 

[gc4946]

What I meant to add is that, while this obviously isn't suitable for mainline charters, the prospect of converting a multiple unit for low speed battery operation on a heritage line is intriguing. I would be very impressed if this could be achieved with mainline stock, but something like LTTG's Project 483 will hopefully serve to demonstrate whether or not this is technically/commercially feasible.

Where could you fit batteries on a Networker?

 

[bramling]

Are they? By sufficient folk with deep pockets? I can't stand the things, but to those of the right persuasion, I'd say 'fill your boots.'

I always had half an idea to preserve a 365 driving car when the time came. The problem, as ever, would be where to put it - on paper I have room, but no easy means of getting it in.

Unfortunately the time should have been well into the 2030s, whence space might not have been an issue.

I’d have picked a car from 365510 probably.

 

[D365]

Where could you fit batteries on a Networker?

As I say - I would be very impressed if it could be achieved with mainline stock!

 

[DustyBin]

Where could you fit batteries on a Networker?

Anywhere you like really! If it’s only going to be trundling up and down a preserved line the loss of a few seats wouldn’t be an issue……

 

[gc4946]

A trial fitting of a battery raft on a Greater Anglia 379 unit for passenger service in early 2015

Batteries included: Network Rail begins on-track trials of prototype battery-powered train

Britain’s first battery-powered train is being put through its paces in a series of on-track trials – a move which could ultimately lead to a fleet of battery-powered trains running on Britain’s rail network which are quieter and more efficient than diesel-powered trains, making them better for...

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Hovever I think any installation on a Networker will mean losing a few seats unless there are areas where they can be installed underfloor.

 

[Mikey C]

While it would be nice to have a museum/heritage operator stacked with loads of commuter trains, from every era, ultimately these are workmanlike machines of little interest to the wider public.

You can't imagine parents taking their children for a ride on a heritage 465, or even vast numbers of enthusiasts paying for a ride on one.

 

[brad465]

Are there any EMUs that have been preserved for railtour operation before? I would have thought that a 465 would be among the last to be considered for such a concept though, along with most pure third rail stock.

 

[DustyBin]

Are there any EMUs that have been preserved for railtour operation before? I would have thought that a 465 would be among the last to be considered for such a concept though, along with most pure third rail stock.

The 4SUB and 2BIL were both fully operational at one point (both third rail units as well obviously). Did the Class 306 ever run in preservation?

 

[4SubAsociation]

The 4SUB and 2BIL were both fully operational at one point (both third rail units as well obviously). Did the Class 306 ever run in preservation?

The SUB was kept on to work with the BIL as it had limited capacity. The other reason the SUB was kept on was due to it was the last one left with a compartment trailer (somewhat by accident as 4732 was involved in a accident in 1974 with a cig which damaged the front carraige 12795 and 9012, they repaired 12795 and swapped 9012 with 12354 over)

I have seen pics of the 306 opperating in the mid 2000. It was restored by First Great Eastern and run until around 2006.

The 502 and 503 where similar in that they where kept opperational after withdrawal for a bit.

 

[bramling]

Are there any EMUs that have been preserved for railtour operation before? I would have thought that a 465 would be among the last to be considered for such a concept though, along with most pure third rail stock.

365s would have been more suitable from an ambience point of view - a more spacious interior, wide gangways, and perfect window alignment. Pretty much perfect.

The 365 interior managed to be rather better than both the 465/466, and for that matter the 165/166. The few small changes made a massive positive difference.

 

[4SubAsociation]

I missed off the Brighton Belle as that is being made opperational for mainline. Although not with its orignal running gear.

At present apart from the Brighton Belle the answer is no. Multitude of factors with many emus.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

365s would have been more suitable from an ambience point of view - a more spacious interior, wide gangways, and perfect window alignment. Pretty much perfect.

The 365 interior managed to be rather better than both the 465/466, and for that matter the 165/166. The few small changes made a massive positive difference.

The 365s had a much more limited operating area though, so fewer people who would be nostalgic for a ride on a preserved one...

Then again, they're more likely to be of a demographic that can afford such weekend activities than the average 465/466 passenger!

I missed off the Brighton Belle as that is being made opperational for mainline. Although not with its orignal running gear.

At present apart from the Brighton Belle the answer is no. Multitude of factors with many emus.

If the Brighton Belle restoration wasn't happening, there may have been a gap in the market to save a 442 (restored to as-built interior of course!) for VIP excursions... alas there would probably only be enough of a market for one such unit, even that is a bit of a reach.

 

[DustyBin]

I missed off the Brighton Belle as that is being made opperational for mainline. Although not with its orignal running gear.

At present apart from the Brighton Belle the answer is no. Multitude of factors with many emus.

I thought of the Belle but wasn’t sure it qualified as so much time will have elapsed between its original preservation and return to the mainline. I’m maybe taking @brad465’s question too literally though.