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Royal Mail to run more cross-Border trains

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Tayway

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An article in the Scotsman this morning says that Royal Mail are looking to run an extra three trains a day between Shieldmuir and their new distribution centre in Daventry.

Good to see a revival of sorts of mail trains, and apparently the Class 325s have been upgraded to increase their capacity.
 
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I wonder if this is also to do with the lack of lorry / van drivers so one / two train drivers between Scotland and Daventry / London is likely to be the only option?
 

David57

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I wonder if this is also to do with the lack of lorry / van drivers so one / two train drivers between Scotland and Daventry / London is likely to be the only option?
No, I doubt it.
I worked as a driver for Royal Mail at their current Daventry hub, and there was never a shortage of drivers as it was a well paid job.
 

Bertone

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When I was working on WCML signalling many years ago at Carstairs, the southbound Royal Mail train would stop there in the evening and I recall that some of the TPO ”coaches” had post/letter “slots” on the side, so you could actually post a letter at a station stop.
I think I recall at the time that there was a surcharge required for this service but I personally never took advantage so can’t confirm.
However, can’t see the same “posting” facility on images on the current TPO stock?
 
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edwin_m

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When I was working on WCML signalling many years ago at Carstairs, the southbound Royal Mail train would stop there in the evening and I recall that some of the TPO ”coaches” had post/letter “slots” on the side, so you could actually post a letter at a station stop.
I think I heard at the time that there was a surcharge required for this service but I personally never took advantage so can’t confirm.
However, can’t see the same “posting” facility on images on the current TPO stock?
There was certainly a legend on the side requiring an extra fee. However there is no point in doing that today. Firstly the train stops in dedicated terminals with no public access, not in stations. Secondly, mail was sorted on board the TPOs so any collected from the post box in the side could be directed into the correct bag for onward delivery. No such sorting takes place today.
 

The exile

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When I was working on WCML signalling many years ago at Carstairs, the southbound Royal Mail train would stop there in the evening and I recall that some of the TPO ”coaches” had post/letter “slots” on the side, so you could actually post a letter at a station stop.
I think I heard at the time that there was a surcharge required for this service but I personally never took advantage so can’t confirm.
However, can’t see the same “posting” facility on images on the current TPO stock?
By the late 80s the surcharge had gone - other than the fact it was 1st class (post!) only. 17p in those days!
 

Dr Hoo

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I’m just surprised it’s taken this long,
Isn’t it because it has had to wait for the new rail-connected depot at Daventry/DIRFT? I thought That I had seen somewhere that this service was intended for parcels rather than letters. This is in most respects a ‘new’ rather than ‘traditional’ pattern of movement.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Good to see this, I was travelling recently on the WMCL and saw 2 or 3 of those mail trains.
 

dk1

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Isn’t it because it has had to wait for the new rail-connected depot at Daventry/DIRFT? I thought That I had seen somewhere that this service was intended for parcels rather than letters. This is in most respects a ‘new’ rather than ‘traditional’ pattern of movement.
I was referring more to just volumes & flows in general & making more use of rail again.
 

wobman

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I pass Dallam quite regularly and it isn't utilised as well as it could be, there's royal mail railway hubs unused throughout the network. These hubs could be brought back into use quite easily, rail freight needs to be less reliant on our congested road network asap
 

Vespa

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Isn’t it because it has had to wait for the new rail-connected depot at Daventry/DIRFT? I thought That I had seen somewhere that this service was intended for parcels rather than letters. This is in most respects a ‘new’ rather than ‘traditional’ pattern of movement.
Parcels are the bigger part of Royal Mail's profit as letters are declining rapidly year on year especially social letters, it makes sense to open up new parcel hubs to deal with the expected increase in volume, Sunday working will be part of a normal shift pattern, at the moment it is voluntary overtime I believe.
 

wobman

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Its a shame Royal Mails management didn't realise this was the future 20yrs ago, I was in meetings were the CWU reps told senior management to invest in parcel sorting hubs. But they were mocked by management and now the Royal mail is a shadow of its former self.

Royal mail rail hubs have been closed or sold off over the years, they had the infrastructure before any other business. But the usual shortermism of modern business management wanted quick profits over the future security of the business.
 

Oxfordblues

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When I was working on WCML signalling many years ago at Carstairs, the southbound Royal Mail train would stop there in the evening and I recall that some of the TPO ”coaches” had post/letter “slots” on the side, so you could actually post a letter at a station stop.
I think I heard at the time that there was a surcharge required for this service but I personally never took advantage so can’t confirm.
However, can’t see the same “posting” facility on images on the current TPO stock?
I once posted a letter at Preston station on the Whitehaven-Huddersfield TPO departing at 23:15. It was delivered the next morning in Cleckheaton at 06:45. My addressee still has the envelope. The price of the stamp: 4.5p!
 

Stampy

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It's going to be part of 3 major rail-fed Parcel Hubs for Royal Mail.....

Warrington - already open
NDC/Crick (aka Midlands Parcel Centre) - due to open June/July 2023
And another yet to be decided on in the South

From what we've heard over here - our "parcels" from NDC/Crick will come PRE-SORTED in containers, so they can go straight out the the sub-offices in 7.5t trucks without us staff having to touch them!!!

People worrying about jobs now - especially after the pay "offer" from Management!!!
 

wobman

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It's going to be part of 3 major rail-fed Parcel Hubs for Royal Mail.....

Warrington - already open
NDC/Crick (aka Midlands Parcel Centre) - due to open June/July 2023
And another yet to be decided on in the South

From what we've heard over here - our "parcels" from NDC/Crick will come PRE-SORTED in containers, so they can go straight out the the sub-offices in 7.5t trucks without us staff having to touch them!!!

People worrying about jobs now - especially after the pay "offer" from Management!!!
Is Dallam rail terminal going to get busier with this work ? There's so much potential for rail parcel traffic across the rail network, Chester delivery office is a 5min walk from the railway station via a dedicated path for example.
 

JaJaWa

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Good documentary about mail trains / Travelling Post Office / Railnet here:

 

Geeves

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The new mega sorting center at Warrington is out near the motorway, saying that the old sorting office was not directly connected to the rail depot either.
 

Cheshire Scot

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When I was working on WCML signalling many years ago at Carstairs, the southbound Royal Mail train would stop there in the evening and I recall that some of the TPO ”coaches” had post/letter “slots” on the side, so you could actually post a letter at a station stop.
I think I heard at the time that there was a surcharge required for this service but I personally never took advantage so can’t confirm.
However, can’t see the same “posting” facility on images on the current TPO stock?
By the late 80s the surcharge had gone - other than the fact it was 1st class (post!) only. 17p in those days!
Prior to the introduction of first and second class post (previously just 'post') in 1968 I am fairly sure the surcharge was 1d (old penny). As noted, later it had to bear first class postage.
I have a number of TPO franked envelopes but none going back to the pre decimal era. I do however have one posted on TPO in Ireland in 1980 and although stamped TPO it does not state which route, but does bear two postage stamps, one of 1p in value suggesting that was the 'supplement' for posting on the train.
I also once posted into the on train postbox of a German TPO but on arrival the envelope gave no trace of being date stamped on a TPO.
 

chazi898

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I haven't really posted here before but heyo lets give it a shot -
I work at the Warrington Mail Centre currently, and apparently we're all moving to the new 'Mega Hub' across the road in the next few years, or so I'm told.
It's baffling how many trucks we have to load just for them to take mail down the country, when it could be loaded on a train at Dallam (I have had a few Dallam terminal shift offers but haven't taken any yet). Some trucks get delayed on the motorway at busy times, sometimes because of crashes on the M6 for eg. A mail train service shouldn't/wouldn't have this problem.
As nice as a rail branch to the new mega hub would be, I don't think its viable due to mass amounts of housing areas, costs, service changing ends at the hub (adding time), etc.
 

physics34

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Isnt the Williams guy who co- wrote the GBR report with Shapps now working for Royal Mail? That could be why mail by rail could make a resurgence
 

jagardner1984

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I would imagine with the current and predicted costs of fuel, a lot of the marginal business cases for bulk parcel transport up and down the country suddenly becomes an awful lot more viable.

Which is a great thing.
 

Freightmaster

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I would imagine with the current and predicted costs of fuel, a lot of the marginal business cases for bulk parcel transport up and down the country suddenly becomes an awful lot more viable.

Which is a great thing.
Railfreight in general (not just mail/parcels) is currently enjoying a 'once in a generation' opportunity for model shift...


The only thing holding back the change at present is lack of drivers/suitable rolling stock




MARK
 

jagardner1984

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Railfreight in general (not just mail/parcels) is currently enjoying a 'once in a generation' opportunity for model shift...


The only thing holding back the change at present is lack of drivers/suitable rolling stock




MARK
Without going into “speculative ideas” territory - as a general principle it does seem strange the amount of stock currently being cut up. The level of modification required to for example, remove some chairs and internals to accommodate and secure some roll cages of parcels (how many diesel truck miles could a single additional Wembley / Midlands / Northwest / Scotland 4 car train per night displace) does not feel like it should be beyond the wit of some “kickstarter” funding from somewhere.
 

Speed43125

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Without going into “speculative ideas” territory - as a general principle it does seem strange the amount of stock currently being cut up. The level of modification required to for example, remove some chairs and internals to accommodate and secure some roll cages of parcels (how many diesel truck miles could a single additional Wembley / Midlands / Northwest / Scotland 4 car train per night displace) does not feel like it should be beyond the wit of some “kickstarter” funding from somewhere.
I mean, I think unless someone here knows something we don't yet about the ROG Orion project then I suspect the reality is that we are rather struggling to achieve that aspiration.
 

edwin_m

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Without going into “speculative ideas” territory - as a general principle it does seem strange the amount of stock currently being cut up. The level of modification required to for example, remove some chairs and internals to accommodate and secure some roll cages of parcels (how many diesel truck miles could a single additional Wembley / Midlands / Northwest / Scotland 4 car train per night displace) does not feel like it should be beyond the wit of some “kickstarter” funding from somewhere.
The main problem is that somebody has to have probably half a dozen trucks' worth of items going between the same pair of places at the same time. The train may be cheaper per parcel but only if it's well-filled. With the fragmentation of the market between Royal Mail, Parcelforce and umpteen private couriers it's difficult to get that sort of scale. In principle a third party could run an A to B journey at their own risk and sell space on it to a range of parcel companies, somewhat as some container trains operate, but the origin and destination would have to fit into all their logistics networks without adding unnecessary cost or delay. Other issues are about network capacity and the impact of overnight engineering access.
 
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