Do drivers drive trains around the country without route and traction knowledge?

[RailWonderer]

When new trains are being delivered (e.g. Dollands Moor to anywhere like Canton Cardiff or Crown Point Norwich), cascaded or just going for maintennance off the network (e.g. Voyagers to Bombardier Ilford) who drives them all the way without route knowledge? Do they switch drivers at different switchover points of the network so route knowledge is maintained?
Then you have traction knowledge. Did they train a guy on Stadlers at Dollands Moor so that he could drive them? I don't understand how it works at all. Don't drivers need to be trained on rolling stock before using it?

 

[5ArchBridge]

I would imagine they’d have a ‘pilot’ in with them.
Basically someone who knows the route.

 

[train_lover]

When new trains are being delivered (e.g. Dollands Moor to anywhere like Canton Cardiff or Crown Point Norwich), cascaded or just going for maintennance off the network (e.g. Voyagers to Bombardier Ilford) who drives them all the way without route knowledge? Do they switch drivers at different switchover points of the network so route knowledge is maintained?
Then you have traction knowledge. Did they train a guy on Stadlers at Dollands Moor so that he could drive them? I don't understand how it works at all. Don't drivers need to be trained on rolling stock before using it?

Freight driver's normally do such unit moves as freight driver's tend to have bigger route knowledge. ROG and GB are the big players when it comes to unit moves. However others have got involved in such contracts

 

[norbitonflyer]

When new trains are being delivered (e.g. Dollands Moor to anywhere like Canton Cardiff or Crown Point Norwich), cascaded or just going for maintennance off the network (e.g. Voyagers to Bombardier Ilford) who drives them all the way without route knowledge? Do they switch drivers at different switchover points of the network so route knowledge is maintained?
Then you have traction knowledge. Did they train a guy on Stadlers at Dollands Moor so that he could drive them? I don't understand how it works at all. Don't drivers need to be trained on rolling stock before using it?

Weren't the Stadlers towed to Norwich for commissioning, rather than driven? Certainly the ac-electric-only 745s would not have got very far into Kent before running out of knitting.

 

[northwichcat]

If a new line has just been built then someone's going to have to drive along it without either previous experience or the supervision of someone with previous experience.

 

[ExRes]

All new units are delivered loco hauled, no way are they going to be allowed to work under their own steam before commissioning

 

[steamybrian]

If a new line has just been built then someone's going to have to drive along it without either previous experience or the supervision of someone with previous experience.

... In a test train not in passenger service and at a slower speed.
The Elizabeth Line across London is a good example with months of testing/staff training and still not yet open to the public.....

 

[DanNCL]

Weren't the Stadlers towed to Norwich for commissioning, rather than driven? Certainly the ac-electric-only 745s would not have got very far into Kent before running out of knitting.

They were delivered via HS1 so OHLE wasn't so much the issue, it was lack of TVM cab signalling.

 

[philthetube]

The actual answer to the question in the thread title is never.

 

[warwickshire]

Out of interest say for example rog drivers are doing 730 testing in the West Midlands who trained the rog drivers on them? Also who was the first trainer to learn them company wise? Would it have been initially on a simulator???

 

[driver9000]

No one drives anywhere without being route and traction competent. In instances where a Driver doesn't sign a route then a Driver who does sign the route is provided to act as a Route Conductor.

Stock moves across the country are normally handled by freight or companies like ROG who have enough Drivers with large route cards to be able to crew the full trip either in one sitting or with changes en route.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

The actual answer to the question in the thread title is never.

Unless you're the muppet who had that spectacular SPAD at Stafford a few years ago. Whatever happened to him, I wonder?
Pat

 

[ExRes]

Unless you're the muppet who had that spectacular SPAD at Stafford a few years ago. Whatever happened to him, I wonder?
Pat

At the time he was a 'senior manager' at Amtrain and a driver & traction inspector on the NYMR, hopefully he's neither these days

 

[MotCO]

Similarly, how is new traction gauge-cleared, particularly on delivery? Something new and different such as the original Eurostar 373's must have been difficult to gauge - clear.

 

[skyhigh]

Similarly, how is new traction gauge-cleared, particularly on delivery? Something new and different such as the original Eurostar 373's must have been difficult to gauge - clear.

Computer modelling will be used initially, followed by recitification work and careful observation on the first run through any indicated tight spots.

 

[train_lover]

Similarly, how is new traction gauge-cleared, particularly on delivery? Something new and different such as the original Eurostar 373's must have been difficult to gauge - clear.

Lots of paperwork and many many speed restrictions for the driver

 

[mmh]

Gauge clearance? Lots of silly railway anachronisms. "We've always done that." Why? If there are defined gauges for trains, what exactly is expected to be a problem?

Order a train to a specific specification, but then wonder if it fits?

See also: "fault-free miles." Sigh.

 

[AlexNL]

Similarly, how is new traction gauge-cleared, particularly on delivery? Something new and different such as the original Eurostar 373's must have been difficult to gauge - clear.

A lot of that can be done on the computer these days, as detailed models have been made of the network.

 

[pdq]

When a driver is route conducting, what's the format of this? Are they giving a constant running commentary on the line (I'm thinking co-driver in rally), or is it something less?

 

[endofthetunnel]

In theory, the route conductor will give a ‘running commentary’ but obviously at nothing like rally speed.
Informing the driver in advance of permissible speed changes, gradients, what aspect to expect at signals and junctions and so on. The route conductor also normally speaks with signallers as they will better understand any instructions which relate to locations (bridges, tunnels, etc).
In practice it can vary massively depending on the exact circumstances.

 

[Juniper Driver]

In 2007, I route conducted a driver from Ascot to Reading on a 458 as I knew the route, and he didn't.

We were being assessed on 458s after being trained on them.

 

[6Gman]

If a new line has just been built then someone's going to have to drive along it without either previous experience or the supervision of someone with previous experience.

Things may have changed over the years but when Manchester Airport opened the local Traction Inspectors walked the route, studied the plans and rode on various engineers trains (which were operating in possessions and with no signalling etc.).

They then trained up the traincrews.

 

[Signal_Box]

The actual answer to the question in the thread title is never.

Your sadly incorrect.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2022 ==

When Ebbw Vale opened for reinstatement works plant foc drivers walked the line over a few days learning it initially before slow speed OTM moves, they then refreshed foc drivers on those machines for the actual works. TOC instructors rode freight trains up there then passed that onto trainee toc drivers driving training trains.