Proposed additional Hope Valley evening peak stopper service

[VideozVideoz]

During the week, the Hope Valley Northern stopping service has an infrequent 2-hourly timetable. In addition to this, working commuters from the Hope Valley to Manchester/Sheffield only have the choice of:

From Hope Valley-->Manc: 7.15am (from Sheff) and the 5.18pm back
From Hope Valley-->Sheff: 7.06am (from Manc) and the 5.14pm back

I heard on the grapevine that after some lobbying, there was meant to be a new 6.14pm from Sheffield stopping at all Hope Valley stations introduced in the December timetable. This isn't showing yet so wondered if anyone had any news?

 

[tbtc]

It's been talked about a lot round here.

Trouble is, there is only one way over the Pennines/ Peak District (between the Huddersfield route and the Uttoxeter route between Derby and Stoke), so freight takes up a number of paths.

To compensate for the lack of paths for local passenger services, the Liverpool - Norwich and Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes services both have to take up stops at places like Dore/ Chinley.

One additional problem is that fares aren't often taken from Dore, meaning Northern aren't getting the revenue/ don't realise how many passengers there are (so don't cater)

(a colleague got the train from Dore most days and said there'd be one ticket check a week, on average)

 

[VideozVideoz]

Sorry, I had not seen previous discussions around this (maybe you can give me some links of previous threads). I understand about the lack of paths and the additional stops made by Liverpool-Norwich and Man Airport-Cleethorpes, however Dore and Chinley are not Hope Valley stations so these do not cater for the audience I am referring to...

 

[tbtc]

Sorry, by "here" I was meaning Sheffield, not this forum - apologies.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Northern did, indeed, bid for an additional 18.14 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly stopping service to run from December 2010. (I'm not sure if it was a backwards extension of an existing New Mills Central or Marple to Manchester service, or whether it was a totally new service). Had this train been successfully introduced, the Chinley stop would have been dropped from the 18.10 TPE departure from Sheffield to Manchester Airport.

Unfortunately, the path was ultimately rejected by Network Rail, and I'm assuming that this was due to pathing constraints between Sheffield and Dore (maybe the single track section in the Dore station area).

Thus the Chinley stop remains in the TPE service for the time being, although it is a longer-term aspiration to remove this stop, so I suspect the introduction of the additional Northern service will be looked at again in future timetable changes.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Am i right in thinking that dore curve and station si to be redoubled? would this help with capacity? and allow for extra peak services. Also freight passing loops?

Now im nto entirely sure but the line between sheffield and dore.. is there room for extra tracks cos i always thought there was?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It's been talked about a lot round here.

Trouble is, there is only one way over the Pennines/ Peak District (between the Huddersfield route and the Uttoxeter route between Derby and Stoke), so freight takes up a number of paths.

To compensate for the lack of paths for local passenger services, the Liverpool - Norwich and Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes services both have to take up stops at places like Dore/ Chinley.

One additional problem is that fares aren't often taken from Dore, meaning Northern aren't getting the revenue/ don't realise how many passengers there are (so don't cater)

(a colleague got the train from Dore most days and said there'd be one ticket check a week, on average)

The trouble with Dore is a typical 142/150 either just gets too full to go through or the guard is still catching up from the previous stations it gets very very busy) trust me i've tried, sometimes you can get through, sometimes you can't and another prob is the amount of credit/debit card payments we take, to process one card we can get about 3 cash payments (and with our equipment cash is always preferable)

 

[northwichcat]

One additional problem is that fares aren't often taken from Dore, meaning Northern aren't getting the revenue/ don't realise how many passengers there are

That's a problem at a lot of Northern managed stations. The number of ticket offices/machines and staffing levels haven't increased in proportion to the increase in passenger numbers so there is too much reliance on guards and RPI staff.

It's also a problem on Manchester to Chester via Altrincham line, on some services the guard hasn't got from one end to the other end between Greenbank and Altrincham (around 30 minutes away) so a lot of passengers don't get counted. The North West RUS reported that the highest loading for Chester-Altrincham-Manchester was estimated at 75% of the seating capacity. MCRUA performed their own counts and got an average of 178 people on one service that was booked for a 2 car 150 (around 130% full depending on which seating arrangement the 150 had and that's assuming a 142 didn't fill in for a 150.) The RUS even proposed cutbacks as 75% full peak services wasn't good enough!

 

[VideozVideoz]

Northern did, indeed, bid for an additional 18.14 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly stopping service to run from December 2010. (I'm not sure if it was a backwards extension of an existing New Mills Central or Marple to Manchester service, or whether it was a totally new service). Had this train been successfully introduced, the Chinley stop would have been dropped from the 18.10 TPE departure from Sheffield to Manchester Airport.

Unfortunately, the path was ultimately rejected by Network Rail, and I'm assuming that this was due to pathing constraints between Sheffield and Dore (maybe the single track section in the Dore station area).

Thus the Chinley stop remains in the TPE service for the time being, although it is a longer-term aspiration to remove this stop, so I suspect the introduction of the additional Northern service will be looked at again in future timetable changes.

Now that's interesting that one Jonny. Where did that piece of info come about regarding removing the additional stop at Chinley for the 18.10 TPE (Sheff-Man Airport) train? I wasn't aware any comments/aspirations had been made to remove this stop from the service...?

 

[tbtc]

That's a problem at a lot of Northern managed stations. The number of ticket offices/machines and staffing levels haven't increased in proportion to the increase in passenger numbers so there is too much reliance on guards and RPI staff.

It's also a problem on Manchester to Chester via Altrincham line, on some services the guard hasn't got from one end to the other end between Greenbank and Altrincham (around 30 minutes away) so a lot of passengers don't get counted. The North West RUS reported that the highest loading for Chester-Altrincham-Manchester was estimated at 75% of the seating capacity. MCRUA performed their own counts and got an average of 178 people on one service that was booked for a 2 car 150 (around 130% full depending on which seating arrangement the 150 had and that's assuming a 142 didn't fill in for a 150.) The RUS even proposed cutbacks as 75% full peak services wasn't good enough!

This is difficult. If Northern don't take the fares they don't appreciate how many people are using the service so don't learn how many more people they need to cater for... its a vicious circle. I hope the new franchise forces more staff to be used, especially if we are going to get DMUs without corridor connections on services

 

[Anvil1984]

But likewise a lot of passengers in the PTE areas use passes which dont go through any machine as they travel free I'm thinking of all the concessionary fares in SYPTE and GMPTE areas, System One tickets and such like. The only information that is near reliable are actual staff counting or the counting devices on the vehicle

 

[142094]

But likewise a lot of passengers in the PTE areas use passes which dont go through any machine as they travel free I'm thinking of all the concessionary fares in SYPTE and GMPTE areas, System One tickets and such like. The only information that is near reliable are actual staff counting or the counting devices on the vehicle

In those cases the PTEs will have data collectors to see where the cards are being used - normally they are very accurate as well.