Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[Roast Veg]

Noticed line diagrams by the PEDs on the Jubilee line at LBG have Elizabeth line on them now. Inclusion of the word “line” looks odd when set against the others.

I disagree, I think it disambiguates it from the Undeground.

 

[Wolfie]

I disagree, I think it disambiguates it from the Undeground.

But is not done for any Overground line, TfL rail currently, Thameslink etc. There is no way on God's earth that anyone outside of tourists will call it the Elizabeth Line.

 

[DC1989]

Of course they will, not everybody is a rail enthusiast that's been watching this project for the last 25 years who stubbonly say they will only call it crossrail

It's like when a big company change their name and everyone says nobody will call it that - yet in time they do. See Starburst/Opal Fruits, Snickers/Marathon etc

 

[BahrainLad]

How odd. Same platform at LBG, 4 days later.

 

[subk2010]

My friend sent this to me yesterday. @ Canary Wharf Station. The signs had been revealed recently.

Another question, will Poplar/West India Quay/Heron Quays get OSI to Canary Wharf Elizabeth Line Station? Thanks for your help.

 

[Wolfie]

Of course they will, not everybody is a rail enthusiast that's been watching this project for the last 25 years who stubbonly say they will only call it crossrail

It's like when a big company change their name and everyone says nobody will call it that - yet in time they do. See Starburst/Opal Fruits, Snickers/Marathon etc

You reckon? Living in north London no-one l know calls the Victoria line anything other than the Vic. Similarly with the Pic aka the Piccadilly line.

 

[reddragon]

I heard the opening date will be the 17th May now

Correct! 10 points (well unless it changes)

 

[AM9]

You reckon? Living in north London no-one l know calls the Victoria line anything other than the Vic. Similarly with the Pic aka the Piccadilly line.

So make way for the liz/lizzie.

 

[Wolfie]

So make way for the liz/lizzie.

That is my expectation.

 

[DC1989]

Apolgies Wolfie I agree that people will call it the liz or lizzie line - I thought you meant nobody would refer to it as anything other than crossrail

 

[Acton1991]

Looks really silly with the addition of 'line'. No need for it, just extra words!

 

[AM9]

Looks really silly with the addition of 'line'. No need for it, just extra words!

Very much a need for it - especially for tourists. The established underground lines' names have been in use for decades, (22 years for the Jubilee, 54 years for the Victoria and over 100 years for the rest). When the signs are replaced, by then the (daft) name of the line may well become sufficiently ingrained in London minds that the actual word 'line' can be presumed understood and omitted. Meanwhille, the sheer expense of those extra words will have to be endured.

 

[pdeaves]

Looks really silly with the addition of 'line'. No need for it, just extra words!

Agreed. It's called a 'line' exactly as Central, Circle, Victoria, etc. and they don't get the word 'Line' added. It might be that the word is there to start with to draw attention, and it will disappear in subsequent updates (however long that will be). My thinking is rather like when the Victoria line was first added to the 'Beck' map it was (I think) the only diagonal line. It thus looked odd at first but it was done like that for publicity, later changing.

 

[JonathanH]

I heard the opening date will be the (date) now

Correct! 10 points (well unless it changes)

Should this really be discussed on a public forum, particularly if the opening is meant to be soft?

 

[mrmartin]

Interesting from London Reconnections: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2022/the-purple-elephant-in-the-room-crossrails-opening-date/

The opening Elizabeth line operational timetable is somewhat TBA, but whatever level of service operates at launch will drastically exceed the 5tph service on the last full line that TfL opened (the East London Line on the Overground). Complexity in railway operation doesn’t scale linearly, it scales exponentially, and this means there remain challenges around working out what the best balance of stability vs launch service on the Elizabeth line.

Most of these relate to the two systems that have proven most problematic to Crossrail’s construction and fit-out since the start: Train software and signalling.


The line will have a solid claim to be the first “fully digital” railway, at least at its scale, in the world. And that’s meant Siemens and Bombardier (or rather Alstom now), as signalling and rolling stock manufacturers respectively, moving from worlds where they were dealing with mature, physical setups to a new way of working and testing. With hindsight, how these interface with each other on a digital level has proven considerably more complex than any of those involved in the project expected to be (although exactly as complex as the software industry would have told them to expect, but that’s a discussion for another day) and time consuming to get right...

 

[JonathanH]

Interesting from London Reconnections: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2022/the-purple-elephant-in-the-room-crossrails-opening-date/

Yes, very interesting, particularly the first bit.

The truth is that Crossrail’s opening date (Or the Elizabeth line, as it is finally becoming) is currently a moveable feast.

 

[SynthD]

That article says the lack of auto turn back at Paddington will likely prevent 22tph in 2022. What will it be? More like 12 at launch and rising to 16 as they get good at the detraining?

 

[Snow1964]

That article says the lack of auto turn back at Paddington will likely prevent 22tph in 2022. What will it be? More like 12 at launch and rising to 16 as they get good at the detraining?

You don’t need auto turn back for initial 12tph (every 5 minutes) service.

For many years the Victoria line operated with alternate trains terminating at Victoria, going forward into the 2 central reversing sidings. Admittedly they are 8car, not 9car so slightly easier for the staff to check they were empty. I forget the exact frequency of the service at the time, but it was something like 22-26tph. I cannot see why a similar level arriving at Paddington low level won’t work.

Victoria (like Paddington) had a high number of people arriving, and getting off the train, so can’t use an excuse like only works at quiet reversing points like Northolt if a train arrives every few minutes.

I might be wrong, but I thought the plan was revised so that subsequent phase would be Abbey Wood - Heathrow/Reading, so auto reverse won’t be needed until trains from Shenfield added in spring 2023

 

[Wolfie]

Apolgies Wolfie I agree that people will call it the liz or lizzie line - I thought you meant nobody would refer to it as anything other than crossrail

Ah, ok. We were definitely at cross-purposes there. I doubt that many will call it Crossrail.

 

[ijmad]

Personally I'm going to refer to it was the Lizzie Wizzie.

 

[ctom_s]

Should this really be discussed on a public forum, particularly if the opening is meant to be soft?

Speculation on the launch date is the main reason I'm watching this thread!

But I did wonder this to, I've seen for example for rail accidents speculation is massively discouraged/banned because it could be picked up by the media, but I guess it doesn't really matter here?

 

[mrmartin]

One thing I have noticed is no trains running today on RTT (unless there is a data feed error?). Seems a bit surprising.

Also, it also seemed strange to me they aren't running test services on the weekends?

 

[JonathanH]

One thing I have noticed is no trains running today on RTT (unless there is a data feed error?). Seems a bit surprising.

Also, it also seemed strange to me they aren't running test services on the weekends?

There is a big 24tph test on Sunday though so it could be time in lieu or just something else needs to be done in the tunnel today.

There have been a few Mondays without tunnel running recently.

 

[InOban]

Because there are local elections in London, I assume there will be no public statements before Friday 6th. Purdah!

 

[Bald Rick]

That article says the lack of auto turn back at Paddington will likely prevent 22tph in 2022. What will it be? More like 12 at launch and rising to 16 as they get good at the detraining?

Read the article again, carefully.

 

[SynthD]

Read the article again, carefully.

Thanks. Let me check: it could be 22 without this software working, it won’t be higher than that in service this year.

 

[JonathanH]

Thanks. Let me check: it could be 22 without this software working, it won’t be higher than that in service this year.

It wouldn't be 22 tph before there is through running as they don't have enough 345s without the efficiency that through running allows.

18 units are needed for the current 12tph timetable between Paddington and Abbey Wood. Given it is not due to go above 24tph even on a full timetable with half to Shenfield and half to Abbey Wood, it would be odd to try to send 16tph down the Abbey Wood branch and then take it away again in the future.

 

[miklcct]

I don't think it will. The specific codes of PDX, LSX, FDX, WDX (Paddington, Liverpool St, Farringdon and Whitechapel respectively) all exist and are separate from the mainline stations. It will be very much a 5 minute frequency "turn-up-and-go" even from the 'reduced' Central section timetable though, so shouldn't be too much waiting (bar disruption).

I don't think it will. The specific codes of PDX, LSX, FDX, WDX (Paddington, Liverpool St, Farringdon and Whitechapel respectively) all exist and are separate from the mainline stations. It will be very much a 5 minute frequency "turn-up-and-go" even from the 'reduced' Central section timetable though, so shouldn't be too much waiting (bar disruption).

Working on the National Rail data I've found that on some multi-part stations, there are a "CRS code" and a "minor CRS code" defined for a station. For example, in the station database, there are:

Tiploc	CRS	minor CRS	Name
STPADOM	STP	STP	London St Pancras
STPX	STP	STP	London St Pancras
STPXBOX	STP	SPL	London St Pancras LL
PADTON	PAD	PAD	London Paddington
PADTLL	PAD	PDX	London Paddington Crossrl

and in the timetable data, there are:

Tiploc	CRS	Name	Additional Description
STPX	STP	St Pancras International	London St Pancrs
STPXBOX	SPL	St Pancras International	St Pancras Low L
PADTON	PAD	London Paddington	London Paddingtn
PADTLL	PDX	Paddington Crossrail	Paddington Xrail

So I believe the handling will be similar to St Pancras at the moment - the low-level platforms will have their own minor CRS code, but in the stations data they will be part of the larger station so they can be searched using the main CRS code.

 

[Bald Rick]

Working on the National Rail data I've found that on some multi-part stations, there are a "CRS code" and a "minor CRS code" defined for a station. For example, in the station database, there are:

Tiploc	CRS	minor CRS	Name
STPADOM	STP	STP	London St Pancras
STPX	STP	STP	London St Pancras
STPXBOX	STP	SPL	London St Pancras LL
PADTON	PAD	PAD	London Paddington
PADTLL	PAD	PDX	London Paddington Crossrl

and in the timetable data, there are:

Tiploc	CRS	Name	Additional Description
STPX	STP	St Pancras International	London St Pancrs
STPXBOX	SPL	St Pancras International	St Pancras Low L
PADTON	PAD	London Paddington	London Paddingtn
PADTLL	PDX	Paddington Crossrail	Paddington Xrail

So I believe the handling will be similar to St Pancras at the moment - the low-level platforms will have their own minor CRS code, but in the stations data they will be part of the larger station so they can be searched using the main CRS code.

St Pancras also has SPX, for services using HS1.

 

[spyinthesky]

Does the build standard of the escalators account for everyone standing on the right?