Ideas/suggestions & other speculation for Okehampton / Exmouth lines

[REVUpminster]

Looking from google earth the housing to the the south looks reasonably new and doesn't look cheap. There's more land for potential development around the station, a primary school with pupils likely to commute to senior schools in Crediton/Exeter. I think there is a case for the second platform. They can't all ne NIMBY's can they?

 

[Gloster]

I wonder how much else the state of Exeter PSB is holding back. The Crediton-Barnstaple section used to be a lot more complex than it currently is ( even since area resignalling ) but I guess most of that complexity was controlled by ground frames?

Certainly can't see changes up to & at Central without a new panel at least ( and interfacing that with 40yo interlocking seems a job given as punishment... ). Wonder how far down the queue the area is.

Until 1964, when Morchard Road box closed, there was a box at every station, plus one at Coleford Junction. Between 1966 and 1971 they all closed except Crediton, Eggesford and one at Barnstaple, although the crossing at Umberleigh was manned for another year. Other than the three boxes, Ground Frames were retained for sidings at Lapford and Kings Nympton.

 

[drinnicksiding]

Looking from google earth the housing to the the south looks reasonably new and doesn't look cheap. There's more land for potential development around the station, a primary school with pupils likely to commute to senior schools in Crediton/Exeter. I think there is a case for the second platform. They can't all ne NIMBY's can they?

small village with no notable catchment area with very poor road access that isn’t part of any strategic growth plans for DCC. It’s only a request stop hourly at present so there’ll be no demand for half hourly - and those hourly stops are best on the Barnstaple service where connections are long-established, and no time saving is necessary due to timed passings at Eggesford & Crediton.

The station patronage already very high %wise for the village given its poor road network - not likely to increase much.

I’m aware the same could be said for Brading - albeit that’s 3x more usage and a timed stop. Crediton to Yeoford would be a long dynamic loop however, where crossover would be planned to occur without further stoppage (hopefully one fewer without token exchange at Crediton SB).

If the stop had to be timed for Yeoford, you could argue (despite the cost) you might as well increase a station’s service (eg Tisbury) - but with the timings only just falling short you’d probably still crossover nearer to Crediton than Yeoford. It’s only due to the fact that two lines are running parallel that you don’t have to consider the cost of dualling and the luxury of allowing a margin for delays.

 

[REVUpminster]

small village with no notable catchment area with very poor road access that isn’t part of any strategic growth plans for DCC. It’s only a request stop hourly at present so there’ll be no demand for half hourly - and those hourly stops are best on the Barnstaple service where connections are long-established, and no time saving is necessary due to timed passings at Eggesford & Crediton.

The station patronage already very high %wise for the village given its poor road network - not likely to increase much.

I’m aware the same could be said for Brading - albeit that’s 3x more usage and a timed stop. Crediton to Yeoford would be a long dynamic loop however, where crossover would be planned to occur without further stoppage (hopefully one fewer without token exchange at Crediton SB).

If the stop had to be timed for Yeoford, you could argue (despite the cost) you might as well increase a station’s service (eg Tisbury) - but with the timings only just falling short you’d probably still crossover nearer to Crediton than Yeoford. It’s only due to the fact that two lines are running parallel that you don’t have to consider the cost of dualling and the luxury of allowing a margin for delays.

The roads round Yeoford are poor so I wonder how those houses got built. There must be a demand, the primary school must be a draw to the area and lucky to still have it. Okehampton Parkway is likely to be a developer led station and Yeoford could be the same for a second platform.

 

[drinnicksiding]

The roads round Yeoford are poor so I wonder how those houses got built. There must be a demand, the primary school must be a draw to the area and lucky to still have it. Okehampton Parkway is likely to be a developer led station and Yeoford could be the same for a second platform.

Primary school has less than 60 on roll and entire population of the parish of Crediton Hamlets is 1,300. There’s be no economic benefit of a second platform, only a cost.

Will only see a case for it if the line had to be doubled, but it’s a long way from needing.

Any developers at Yeoford would more likely be asked to improve the roads with their s106 or CIL.

 

[Cowley]

Primary school has less than 60 on roll and entire population of the parish of Crediton Hamlets is 1,300. There’s be no economic benefit of a second platform, only a cost.

Will only see a case for it if the line had to be doubled, but it’s a long way from needing.

Any developers at Yeoford would more likely be asked to improve the roads with their s106 or CIL.

I can’t see the roads being improved to be honest. It would cost a fortune for very little return and Yeoford really is the back of beyond despite there being a few new houses being built.

 

[REVUpminster]

Primary school has less than 60 on roll and entire population of the parish of Crediton Hamlets is 1,300. There’s be no economic benefit of a second platform, only a cost.

Will only see a case for it if the line had to be doubled, but it’s a long way from needing.

Any developers at Yeoford would more likely be asked to improve the roads with their s106 or CIL.

60 is not many compared to Torbay that has two primary schools with 700 pupils and one of 600; the biggest in Devon. In the masterplans it reports Yeoford has no shops, do they go to Crediton Tesco superstore near the station? So how it can keep a school without more housing to keep a steady throughput of pupils the school will close. It's also the operational benefit of a second platform for me.

 

[reddragon]

What about a Class 442 sandwiched in between a pair of HST power cars for the Waterloo-Exeter-Okehampton service? They are free & available and would offer a bi-mode option.

 

[REVUpminster]

What about a Class 442 sandwiched in between a pair of HST power cars for the Waterloo-Exeter-Okehampton service? They are free & available and would offer a bi-mode option.

There is no chance Waterloo trains will go to Okehampton. Gone are the days when I got a 9 car 159 from Waterloo, dropped 3 cars off at Salisbury, and then splitting at Exeter with 3 cars going to Plymouth and 3 cars to Paignton.

 

[30907]

It's also the operational benefit of a second platform for me.

In which case it could be restored when the crossovers at Crediton need replacing - it would make sense to put the replacements on straight track just south of Coleford Jn (as was) where there was historically a speed restriction.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

There is no chance Waterloo trains will go to Okehampton. Gone are the days when I got a 9 car 159 from Waterloo, dropped 3 cars off at Salisbury, and then splitting at Exeter with 3 cars going to Plymouth and 3 cars to Paignton.

Now it’s generally 9 Waterloo to Salisbury and 6 Salisbury to Exeter which would mean having to divide at Exeter which gets messy with the increased Barney and Devon Metro service frequency.

 

[Irascible]

Now it’s generally 9 Waterloo to Salisbury and 6 Salisbury to Exeter which would mean having to divide at Exeter which gets messy with the increased Barney and Devon Metro service frequency.

You could send all 6 up to Oke to get them out of the way, but I think we did service patterns already.

Yeoford would need housing developer sponsorship to change, I agree.

 

[50032]

A shame there's an apparent lack of strategic thought regarding double track over that bridge!

 

[zwk500]

A shame there's an apparent lack of strategic thought regarding double track over that bridge!

Why increase the costs for a facility that isn't likely to be needed in the lifetime of the structure?

 

[50032]

Why increase the costs for a facility that isn't likely to be needed in the lifetime of the structure?

Is the rebuilding of the Southern route between Okehampton and Tavistock still not being widely promoted / considered?

 

[Bald Rick]

A shame there's an apparent lack of strategic thought regarding double track over that bridge!

There has been. And it’s not needed.

 

[zwk500]

Is the rebuilding of the Southern route between Okehampton and Tavistock still not being widely promoted / considered?

I believe this has been covered before, but I believe that in short it's been considered to great length and the decision has been made it isn't worth promoting seriously.

 

[reddragon]

My understanding of reading the many reports is that: -

1 - Re-opening through to Plymouth is considered essential due to climate change
2 - Upgrading the Dawlish Route is the 1st priority
3 - This route will happen when it's time comes in 20 years or so, step by step.

Timing of course will be driven by demand on this section or repeat closures at Dawlish.

 

[John R]

A shame there's an apparent lack of strategic thought regarding double track over that bridge!

Why on earth would you replace a perfectly good structure simply to provide a facility that isn’t needed to run the service, and may never be needed? That would be a ludicrous waste of money, and besides could well have meant the project was too costly.

 

[BayPaul]

My understanding of reading the many reports is that: -

1 - Re-opening through to Plymouth is considered essential due to climate change
2 - Upgrading the Dawlish Route is the 1st priority
3 - This route will happen when it's time comes in 20 years or so, step by step.

Timing of course will be driven by demand on this section or repeat closures at Dawlish.

That's very different to my reading of the reports. I understand that the options of Dawlish upgrade / Diversion route via Okehampton & Tavistock / new line from Exeter - Newton Abbott were all considered, and a Dawlish upgrade was considered to be the only sensible option, and to be fit for far longer than 20 years in the future. Bere Alston to Tavistock is being promoted by the council and may or may not come to anything. Okehampton - Crediton is obviously now happening. Tavistock - Okehampton is not part of any official plans.

 

[Bald Rick]

My understanding of reading the many reports is that: -

1 - Re-opening through to Plymouth is considered essential due to climate change
2 - Upgrading the Dawlish Route is the 1st priority
3 - This route will happen when it's time comes in 20 years or so, step by step.

Timing of course will be driven by demand on this section or repeat closures at Dawlish.

You need to read them again. 2 is correct. The others are not.

 

[Owencr905]

I visited the line a few days ago and was surprised that all of the buildings and infrastructure at Meldon Viaduct have been abandoned and trashed.

When did this bit of the line stop operation because I've seen pictures of heritage stock running here?

Will this ever be a 'heritage Railway' again or is NR just going to take it over and fix it up?

Was sad seeing it in such state because the viaduct itself is lovely.

Thanks.

 

[zwk500]

I visited the line a few days ago and was surprised that all of the buildings and infrastructure at Meldon Viaduct have been abandoned and trashed.

When did this bit of the line stop operation because I've seen pictures of heritage stock running here?

Will this ever be a 'heritage Railway' again or is NR just going to take it over and fix it up?

Was sad seeing it in such state because the viaduct itself is lovely.

Thanks.

According to Wikipedia, it was in use for freight shunting until 1990. Since then it has been converted into a cycle path and is now owned by a not-for-profit trust.

NR has no intention of using it again, and any heritage railway proposal is unlikely to be able to afford to repair the viaduct for trains to run.

 

[Owencr905]

According to Wikipedia, it was in use for freight shunting until 1990. Since then it has been converted into a cycle path and is now owned by a not-for-profit trust.

NR has no intention of using it again, and any heritage railway proposal is unlikely to be able to afford to repair the viaduct for trains to run.

That's a Shame. Thanks for the info.

 

[zwk500]

That's a Shame. Thanks for the info.

No worries, and Welcome to the Forum! I missed it was your first time when I replied initially. Hopefully you get some better news with your next messages.

 

[nw12398]

I think there's a bit of confusion here. The viaduct is, as has been said, out of use - it has no tracks, it is part of a shared use path and it isn't considered structurally sound to ever be used for trains again. It's perhaps the biggest individual obstacle in opening the line further towards Plymouth.

However, the line does still exist until just before the viaduct, with the shared path running alongside it rather than in its place. It is very much in use for freight operations from Meldon Quarry, which has seen increased use in recent years for HS2 ballast. There are clear remnants of the heritage railway operation at the former Meldon Viaduct station, including the platform with shelter, and signs and buildings indicating that a cafe and toilets were there in the recent past. Other than the platform itself it unfortunately looks very dilapidated despite being in use until very recently. I suspect vandalism has occurred. It is a great shame as in the summer months it probably gets more than enough passers-by to justify a cafe stop, even without the heritage trains running. Although the aforementioned increase in quarrying may be an obstacle as it is on the quarry works site.


In Geoff Marshall's video on the Okehampton reopening, a Dartmoor Railway Association representative states that they hope to be able to restart heritage services within a few years (at ~ 7:30):

 

[Owencr905]

No worries, and Welcome to the Forum! I missed it was your first time when I replied initially. Hopefully you get some better news with your next messages.

Thanks!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2022 ==

Thanks for that info. When I said Meldon Viaduct I just meant the station not the actual Viaduct. Sad that the Viaduct isn't safe enough for the trains though, but I can understand why.

I think there's a bit of confusion here. The viaduct is, as has been said, out of use - it has no tracks, it is part of a shared use path and it isn't considered structurally sound to ever be used for trains again. It's perhaps the biggest individual obstacle in opening the line further towards Plymouth.

However, the line does still exist until just before the viaduct, with the shared path running alongside it rather than in its place. It is very much in use for freight operations from Meldon Quarry, which has seen increased use in recent years for HS2 ballast. There are clear remnants of the heritage railway operation at the former Meldon Viaduct station, including the platform with shelter, and signs and buildings indicating that a cafe and toilets were there in the recent past. Other than the platform itself it unfortunately looks very dilapidated despite being in use until very recently. I suspect vandalism has occurred. It is a great shame as in the summer months it probably gets more than enough passers-by to justify a cafe stop, even without the heritage trains running. Although the aforementioned increase in quarrying may be an obstacle as it is on the quarry works site.


In Geoff Marshall's video on the Okehampton reopening, a Dartmoor Railway Association representative states that they hope to be able to restart heritage services within a few years (at ~ 7:30):

 

[fgwrich]

I think there's a bit of confusion here. The viaduct is, as has been said, out of use - it has no tracks, it is part of a shared use path and it isn't considered structurally sound to ever be used for trains again. It's perhaps the biggest individual obstacle in opening the line further towards Plymouth.

However, the line does still exist until just before the viaduct, with the shared path running alongside it rather than in its place. It is very much in use for freight operations from Meldon Quarry, which has seen increased use in recent years for HS2 ballast. There are clear remnants of the heritage railway operation at the former Meldon Viaduct station, including the platform with shelter, and signs and buildings indicating that a cafe and toilets were there in the recent past. Other than the platform itself it unfortunately looks very dilapidated despite being in use until very recently. I suspect vandalism has occurred. It is a great shame as in the summer months it probably gets more than enough passers-by to justify a cafe stop, even without the heritage trains running. Although the aforementioned increase in quarrying may be an obstacle as it is on the quarry works site.


In Geoff Marshall's video on the Okehampton reopening, a Dartmoor Railway Association representative states that they hope to be able to restart heritage services within a few years (at ~ 7:30):

Almost there, while the Crediton to Okehampton stretch received a considerable amount of work to bring it up to scratch for regular passenger services, the Okehampton to Meldon stretch wasn't touched at all. It did receive some tree clearance and vegetation works but hasn't seen any actual use other than to run around some of the engineering trains during the main work. At the Okehampton station end, the Points facing into the "bay" platforms were removed and plain lined, and requires a token to run up to Meldon (which has since apparently gone wanders). The connection between Meldon and HS2 Ballast so far seem to be rumours, as Aggregate Industries Meldon Quarry still remains mothballed - there is hope however that it could reopen!

As for the heritage side of things, it's all been a bit muddled over the years - the Heritage Association owning some stock, while BARS / DCR / RMS locotec (and laterally Eastern Rail Services) owning the majority of the stock including the 31, Mk2s and the Thumpers. With NR purchasing the line from Aggregate Industries, and the collapse of British American Railroad Services (BARS), the preserved operations have for now come to a bit of a halt. Although the Dartmoor Railway Association operated between Okehampton and Meldon, that made use of the BARS safety case and license, as well as their stock, on a line rented from Aggregate Industries.

I do hope something can eventually be done about the Meldon end though - it's a shame to see the station and the site up there looking vandalised and abandoned, though at least it is now largely clear of the stock up there (some of it had little prospect of ever returning). At least the DRA still have their side of Okehampton station to look after and the whole station is back in regular use - as well as the cycle hire facility at the Youth Hostel in the former Goods Shed.

 

[Owencr905]

Almost there, while the Crediton to Okehampton stretch received a considerable amount of work to bring it up to scratch for regular passenger services, the Okehampton to Meldon stretch wasn't touched at all. It did receive some tree clearance and vegetation works but hasn't seen any actual use other than to run around some of the engineering trains during the main work. At the Okehampton station end, the S&C into the "bay" platforms has been removed and plain lined, and requires a token to run up to Meldon (which has since apparently gone wanders). The connection between Meldon and HS2 Ballast so far seem to be rumours, as Aggregate Industries Meldon Quarry still remains mothballed - there is hope however that it could reopen!

As for the heritage side of things, it's all been a bit muddled over the years - the Heritage Association owning some stock, while BARS / DCR / RMS locotec (and laterally Eastern Rail Services) owning the majority of the stock including the 31, Mk2s and the Thumpers. With NR purchasing the line from Aggregate Industries, and the collapse of British American Railroad Services (BARS), the preserved operations have for now come to a bit of a halt. Although the Dartmoor Railway Association operated between Okehampton and Meldon, that made use of the BARS safety case and license, as well as their stock, on a line rented from Aggregate Industries.

I do hope something can eventually be done about the Meldon end though - it's a shame to see the station and the site up there looking vandalised and abandoned, though at least it is now largely clear of the stock up there (some of it had little prospect of ever returning). At least the DRA still have their side of Okehampton station to look after and the whole station is back in regular use - as well as the cycle hire facility at the Youth Hostel in the former Goods Shed.

Thanks for that info

 

[Essexman]

I was at Okehampton last week and spoke to someone in the shop on the station who told me that there are still hopeful of running heritage trains to Meldon. He said they'd have to use the bay platform at Okehampton but Network Rail have removed the points that serve this, however they're expecting them to be put back at some point.