IET running on diesel

[800001]

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure I agree about dropping the pans at York. If it had run on electric initially, it would have got to 125mph and kept time. Does LNER do changeovers on the move? Given your last sentence, I'm even more surprised than an 801 was booked along the non electrified line from Peterborough to Ely.

Yes LNER change over between diesel and electric on the move, the train does this automatically when it passes over balises on the track, but this is for specifically defined places when operating Hull, Lincoln, Harrogate, Inverness and Aberdeen, Sunderland, Middlesbrough services, where the auto change is preset into the train management system via its head code.
Doing it whilst stationary at a station makes a lot of sense, as it does not then distract the driver by doing so on the move, as this is an out of the norm power change.
Also for using an 800/2 + 800/1 combo on diversions allows LNER to operate more services than they would be able to with just there 9 car bimodes and 5 car bimodes.

 

[northernbelle]

I travelled on 1E06 from York to Doncaster on Saturday. It was formed 800208+801111. For some reason it was running on diesel. The performance can best be described as sedate; it got to 90 mph and took 29 minutes. By comparison 91109 took 22 minutes in the down direction, with a brief stop outside York, and 25 minutes in the up direction, with a two minute stop outside Doncaster.

I was surprised that a class 801 was diagrammed to a train that was diverted via March. Is that normal? Four engines on a 10 coach train seems a bit optimistic.

Realtime Trains | 1E06 0648 Glasgow Central to London Kings Cross | 15/01/2022

Real-time train running information for 1E06 0648 departure from Glasgow Central to London Kings Cross on 15/01/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Forming mixed '800' and '801' trains is a sensible use of the rolling stock on diversions as it means that the electric-only 801s can be put to good use instead of sitting idle. Although the performance is more sedate, the schedules in such cases are written to reflect this as shown by your 10 early arrival into Kings Cross.

It means that more trains can be used on the diversionary route as it frees up diesel sets to effectively power the electric sets through the diesel section of the route. I imagine it's still quicker than having to add or remove a diesel loco to the front of a 225 as in days gone by!

 

[RuddA]

I travelled back early afternoon from Cardiff to Paddington yesterday and all IETs were changing to diesel at Reading. Anyone know why this was and whether it is common? All EMUs appeared to be running as normal. Made Paddington alot noisier than when I used it last week.

 

[Mag_seven]

I travelled back early afternoon from Cardiff to Paddington yesterday and all IETs were changing to diesel at Reading. Anyone know why this was and whether it is common? All EMUs appeared to be running as normal. Made Paddington alot noisier than when I used it last week.

OLE issue Ladbroke Grove is my understanding. Was the same this morning.

 

[RuddA]

OLE issue Ladbroke Grove is my understanding. Was the same this morning.

Thank you for the quick reply

 

[Ken H]

I travelled back early afternoon from Cardiff to Paddington yesterday and all IETs were changing to diesel at Reading. Anyone know why this was and whether it is common? All EMUs appeared to be running as normal. Made Paddington alot noisier than when I used it last week.

I was on Leeds station last Monday about 15:00. There was a double set sat with all the diesels running in the platform. The Skipton/Ilkleys were all running normally so no problems with power supply. Nice input of particulates into the trainshed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was on Leeds station last Monday about 15:00. There was a double set sat with all the diesels running in the platform. The Skipton/Ilkleys were all running normally so no problems with power supply. Nice input of particulates into the trainshed.

They really should have a feature whereby they drop to one engine per set when the doors have been released for more than a couple of minutes.

 

[Ken H]

They really should have a feature whereby they drop to one engine per set when the doors have been released for more than a couple of minutes.

or put the pans up and stop the engines till time to go.

 

[hexagon789]

or put the pans up and stop the engines till time to go.

I've seen that done in France with their regional bi-mode sets, where they literally just put the pan up at a provincial junction station that has an electrified main line running through and shut the diesels down for a few minutes, and the route the bi-mode uses is over primarily unelectrified territory.

 

[Railperf]

800320 is diesel only on the 1250 to Worcesrer Foregate St. Switched to slow line as far as Ealing broadway. Seems an issue on the down fast. 113mph max on the approach to Slough.
Edit: Update. After 9 mins acceleration from Slough we seemed to be balancing at around 114mph maximum. Not sure all the engines were in full health.

 

[Mag_seven]

I was on the 07.48 Paddington - Swansea this morning - it left Paddington on diesel but panned up after reducing speed in the North Pole depot area.

 

[Railperf]

I was on the 07.48 Paddington - Swansea this morning - it left Paddington on diesel but panned up after reducing speed in the North Pole depot area.

Ok. So yes the issue must be Reading to Paddington OLE. We are back to electric mode from Reading.

 

[TurboMan]

They really should have a feature whereby they drop to one engine per set when the doors have been released for more than a couple of minutes.

They do, it's called Turnaround mode. Initiated by the driver via the TMS, and used at termini and anywhere else the train might be standing for more than 5 minutes (on GWR at least). One engine per 5-car, 2 engines per 9-car continue to run to feed to auxiliary power supply (for lighting/heating etc.), while the other engines shut down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They do, it's called Turnaround mode. Initiated by the driver via the TMS, and used at termini and anywhere else the train might be standing for more than 5 minutes (on GWR at least). One engine per 5-car, 2 engines per 9-car continue to run to feed to auxiliary power supply (for lighting/heating etc.), while the other engines shut down.

Thanks. Is it a faff to enable it, thus drivers aren't doing so (as in my observation they often don't)? Easier would be to have it happen automatically when the doors have been released for more than 2 minutes, say, and for a button to be pressed to restart when departure is imminent.

 

[TurboMan]

Ok. So yes the issue must be Reading to Paddington OLE. We are back to electric mode from Reading.

There's a block to electric traction between Acton and Westbourne Park on the Up Main/line 2, so drivers are switching to diesel at Reading. Down trains are running over other lines, or in diesel back to Reading.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's a block to electric traction between Acton and Westbourne Park on the Up Main/line 2, so drivers are switching to diesel at Reading. Down trains are running over other lines, or in diesel back to Reading.

I wonder how many delay minutes have been saved so far by having the ability to do this vs. a pure EMU being stuck?

 

[TurboMan]

Thanks. Is it a faff to enable it, thus drivers aren't doing so (as in my observation they often don't)? Easier would be to have it happen automatically when the doors have been released for more than 2 minutes, say, and for a button to be pressed to restart when departure is imminent.

No, it's just a couple of taps on the TMS - it's an option on the log out screen. Pressing the Diesel button starts all the engines again. Whether it's easier to automate it depends on your confidence in Hitachi's ability to implement such a feature.

 

[Horizon22]

I wonder how many delay minutes have been saved so far by having the ability to do this vs. a pure EMU being stuck?

It wouldn't be stuck but it would it would certainly cause delays for a short-section of 2 track railway. Probably a few selective cancellations due to a reduction of capacity (normally 2tph on HeX and Bedwyn/Newbury services starting at Reading). I believe, the issue is more condensed than it was yesterday for diesel running, but for IETs the vast majority (excluding the Slough calls on Oxford/Worcester/Hereford services) the first/last stop is Reading so is a sensible point to crossover as it needs manual intervention.

 

[Railperf]

Yes. Looks like all departures from Reading in the up main are switching to diesel. 800 027 from Hereford didn't bother switching to electric between Didcot and Reading. GWR's fuel bill will be increasing today!. Incidentally 027 managed 121mph before slowing for the Reading stop.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Apr 2022 ==

Diesel running does seriously blunt performance and will affect timekeeping. From a Slough Start, an 800 on diesel takes a good 90 seconds longer to reach Twyford than on electric. Clearly the sectional running times for the diesel section take that into account. Any ability to keep time in diesel over the electric timed sections is down to the train eating into recovery and performance allowances and shorter station stops than booked.