CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[krus_aragon]

In any case, one of the benefits of a massive fleet of similar units is the more efficient stabling that can take place. Instead of needing to send rakes of empty Sprinters from Crewe in the morning, with 175s going the other direction (because of Chester being set up for 175 maintenance and Crewe for Sprinters) it'll be a lot easier to keep units where they actually need to be for the next day, reducing empty milage. This will probably see stabling points re-evaluated across the entire TfW network. We're already seeing that with the discussion upthread about Llandudno Junction, with plans for units being stabled there every night (whereas at present there are two separate ECS runs down the coast every morning, with 175s from Chester and Sprinters from Crewe).

In an utopian world, that might enable earlier westbound / later eastbound services on the North Wales coast (i.e. an early service could run in service from Llandudno Jn and then return from Holyhead, instead of shunting from Holyhead sidings). I remember avoiding applying for a teaching job in Holyhead because the first train in arrived around 08:30; having added travel from the station I'd barely be there before the school buses. An eastbound departure later than 20:30 from Holyhead (21:00 from Bangor) would also be nice, even if it doesn't go all the way to Chester/Crewe.

I've heard about people complaining about the local residents near coton hill and how they don't like the noise of the trains.

Here's hoping that we don't start hearing about people complaining about the people who complain about the local residents' dislike of train noise. If we do, we might never get out of that rabbit hole...

 

[wobman]

In an utopian world, that might enable earlier westbound / later eastbound services on the North Wales coast (i.e. an early service could run in service from Llandudno Jn and then return from Holyhead, instead of shunting from Holyhead sidings). I remember avoiding applying for a teaching job in Holyhead because the first train in arrived around 08:30; having added travel from the station I'd barely be there before the school buses. An eastbound departure later than 20:30 from Holyhead (21:00 from Bangor) would also be nice, even if it doesn't go all the way to Chester/Crewe.


Here's hoping that we don't start hearing about people complaining about the people who complain about the local residents' dislike of train noise. If we do, we might never get out of that rabbit hole...

With the 197s being stabled around the network at night that will save numerous ECS moves from chester, there's no concrete plans but Holyhead will be hopefully having 7-8 units. Then Llandudno sidings are having 4-5 units, Abbey Foregate is having 2 more roads reinstated so they can accommodate more units at night.

There are locations such as cotton Hill/ bache sidings and probably a few other locations that could be utilised, it would make sence to have units across the network. The logistical problems do arise with this with units being cleaned/ fueled / tanked and emptying retention tanks etc.

The problems may arise were locations get used that have been unused for some time and residents complain that units will be idling. The 197s have eco modes that enable 1 engine to idle for better emissions.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I've heard about people complaining about the local residents near coton hill and how they don't like the noise of the trains.

If the railway was there when they decided to buy the house, I have no sympathies for them. They knew what they were doing.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

If the railway was there when they decided to buy the house, I have no sympathies for them. They knew what they were doing.

Think it was yes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Think it was yes.

Far too many people fail to do their due diligence when buying a house and then moan. Next to a pub is the classic, but all sorts of them appear all over the local press.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Far too many people fail to do their due diligence when buying a house and then moan. Next to a pub is the classic, but all sorts of them appear all over the local press.

People like to moan don't they.

 

[L401CJF]

If the railway was there when they decided to buy the house, I have no sympathies for them. They knew what they were doing.

If I'm thinking of the right place, the houses along the sidings are relatively new build flats.

 

[wobman]

I've heard freightliner have taken over the testing and fault free mileage runs now, as Caf want things sped up ASAP.

 

[supervc-10]

Far too many people fail to do their due diligence when buying a house and then moan. Next to a pub is the classic, but all sorts of them appear all over the local press.

There was a show a while back called 'Inside Gatwick', and there was some guy they filmed who was whining about the jet noise. He was writing letters every day to the airport to complain.
Gatwick's been there since before WW2, and they weren't even that close to the airport anyway. He was sitting out on his patio with ear defenders on at one point...

 

[Richard Scott]

There was a show a while back called 'Inside Gatwick', and there was some guy they filmed who was whining about the jet noise. He was writing letters every day to the airport to complain.
Gatwick's been there since before WW2, and they weren't even that close to the airport anyway. He was sitting out on his patio with ear defenders on at one point...

Remember seeing that and thinking "what an idiot" back then!

 

[sw1ller]

With the 197s being stabled around the network at night that will save numerous ECS moves from chester, there's no concrete plans but Holyhead will be hopefully having 7-8 units. Then Llandudno sidings are having 4-5 units, Abbey Foregate is having 2 more roads reinstated so they can accommodate more units at night.

There are locations such as cotton Hill/ bache sidings and probably a few other locations that could be utilised, it would make sence to have units across the network. The logistical problems do arise with this with units being cleaned/ fueled / tanked and emptying retention tanks etc.

The problems may arise were locations get used that have been unused for some time and residents complain that units will be idling. The 197s have eco modes that enable 1 engine to idle for better emissions.

I hope they don’t start using Llandudno Junction for stabling units. That means more work for Chester an Holyhead drivers to do in the morning to get them shunted and ready.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Units shouldn't be left idling anywhere, and residents are right to complain about this polluting and unnecessary practice. The project needs to include shore supplies.

 

[wobman]

I hope they don’t start using Llandudno Junction for stabling units. That means more work for Chester an Holyhead drivers to do in the morning to get them shunted and ready.

It won't be Llandudno Junction it's looking like Llandudno sidings by the signal box the jn sidings are for the slate traffic.

 

[wobman]

Units shouldn't be left idling anywhere, and residents are right to complain about this polluting and unnecessary practice. The project needs to include shore supplies.

Who would pay for that ? Modern units have Eco mode were they idle with just 1 engine running, the 197s are Eco 5/6 with DPFs fitted.

 

[krus_aragon]

I hope they don’t start using Llandudno Junction for stabling units. That means more work for Chester an Holyhead drivers to do in the morning to get them shunted and ready.

Here's me asking the obvious questions (again), but wouldn't Junction drivers do most of that work?

 

[wobman]

Who would pay for that ? Modern units have Eco mode were they idle with just 1 engine running, the 197s are Eco 5/6 with DPFs fitted.

Also most Tocs specify to shut units down if they are standing for more than 20minutes

 

[wobman]

Here's me asking the obvious questions (again), but wouldn't Junction drivers do most of that work?

It's always been Chester drivers that bring 2 separate ECS moves to Llandudno Junction early in the morning and drive the first services from the station with them units, the only early service Llandudno Junction drivers take is the first Bleanau Ffestiniog service.

 

[craigybagel]

It's always been Chester drivers that bring 2 separate ECS moves to Llandudno Junction early in the morning and drive the first services from the station with them units, the only early service Llandudno Junction drivers take is the first Bleanau Ffestiniog service.

Not to mention for one of the ECS trips it's a Crewe driver who preps the units in the (very) early hours and brings them over to Chester for the Chester driver to run down the coast!

Here's me asking the obvious questions (again), but wouldn't Junction drivers do most of that work?

Hopefully now they'll have units of their own to play with every morning that would be the most likely scenario - but it'll come down to whatever the computer deems most efficient.

 

[Anonymous10]

It's always been Chester drivers that bring 2 separate ECS moves to Llandudno Junction early in the morning and drive the first services from the station with them units, the only early service Llandudno Junction drivers take is the first Bleanau Ffestiniog service.

if units are based there what's to say that tfw couldn't have those drivers crewe them?

 

[wobman]

if units are based there what's to say that tfw couldn't have those drivers crewe them?

That's the hope from the crewe and chester / Holyhead traincrew, but it never happens.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Units shouldn't be left idling anywhere, and residents are right to complain about this polluting and unnecessary practice. The project needs to include shore supplies.

Shore supplies were installed at Wrexham General for the WSMR initiative, and are still there.
So that's 2 unused bay platforms available.

 

[wobman]

Shore supplies were installed at Wrexham General for the WSMR initiative, and are still there.
So that's 2 unused bay platforms available.

One is for tamper use and the other is for unit storage in the evenings once the Bidstons reduce to 2hr, the rescue 230 will be there from May TT change.

 

[Anonymous10]

That's the hope from the crewe and chester / Holyhead traincrew, but it never happens.

have there been units stabled there recently if not that may be why

 

[krus_aragon]

It's always been Chester drivers that bring 2 separate ECS moves to Llandudno Junction early in the morning and drive the first services from the station with them units, the only early service Llandudno Junction drivers take is the first Bleanau Ffestiniog service.

My thoughts were about the future, along the lines of: if there isn't an early ECS working from Chester/Crewe once 197s are stabled regularly at Junction, then it'd be rather odd to taxi crew from Chester to get things started in the morning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2022 ==

have there been units stabled there recently if not that may be why

Only the occasional unit when the last Holyhead service(s) are bustituted due to engineering works, in my experience. They usually shunt into platform 2 for the night.

 

[wobman]

have there been units stabled there recently if not that may be why

My thoughts were about the future, along the lines of: if there isn't an early ECS working from Chester/Crewe once 197s are stabled regularly at Junction, then it'd be rather odd to taxi crew from Chester to get things started in the morning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2022 ==



Only the occasional unit when the last Holyhead service(s) are bustituted due to engineering works, in my experience. They usually shunt into platform 2 for the night.

Logic is a word that's really used on the railways, I've questioned things over the years and get to that's the way it is ! For example I got a 2hr taxi to cover a Holyhead job as did a guard in a separate taxi but the spare traincrew at Llandudno Junction sat at home ! That's the way it is I got told.....

So with that logic Chester traincrew will probably be taxid to Llandudno Junction in the future still unfortunately

 

[sw1ller]

Here's me asking the obvious questions (again), but wouldn't Junction drivers do most of that work?

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No

 

[Caaardiff]

Why wouldn't Junction drivers pick up that work if it's regular stabling and the morning ECS isn't needed?
Currently there's hardly anything stabling there. I think only a 150 on Sunday night is the regular thing. Everything also is adhoc or engineering.
The 197s will likely need to a complete timetable makeover, meaning train crew diagrams should also get a makeover.

 

[wobman]

Why wouldn't Junction drivers pick up that work if it's regular stabling and the morning ECS isn't needed?
Currently there's hardly anything stabling there. I think only a 150 on Sunday night is the regular thing. Everything also is adhoc or engineering.
The 197s will likely need to a complete timetable makeover, meaning train crew diagrams should also get a makeover.

Logic and railways should not be mentioned in the same sentence, the historical way to cover early or late Llandudno Junction work excluding the Bleanau branch has been give it to Chester or Holyhead traincrew. It won't change as that's the way it has always been that way......

 

[Doveymain158]

Looks like there is a possible 197 out tonight in the covered of darkness between Wolves and Crewe via Salop

Realtime Trains | 574T 2228 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 19/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 574T 2228 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 19/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 575T 2345 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 19/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 575T 2345 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 19/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 576T 0132 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 20/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 576T 0132 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 20/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 577T 0237 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 20/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 577T 0237 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 20/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[wobman]

Looks like there is a possible 197 out tonight in the covered of darkness between Wolves and Crewe via Salop

Realtime Trains | 574T 2228 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 19/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 574T 2228 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 19/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 575T 2345 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 19/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 575T 2345 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 19/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 576T 0132 Wolverhampton to Crewe | 20/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 576T 0132 departure from Wolverhampton to Crewe on 20/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 577T 0237 Crewe to Wolverhampton | 20/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 577T 0237 departure from Crewe to Wolverhampton on 20/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

These must be the freightliner drivers on the mileage accumulation and fault free testing runs, no 197s have been approved yet.