TPE conductor on Northern train

[startingaparty]

The Northern train I’m on this morning has a conductor doing ticket checks in full TPE uniform. Does anyone know why this might be?

 

[gledhill56]

The Northern train I’m on this morning has a conductor doing ticket checks in full TPE uniform. Does anyone know why this might be?

If you could give a clue what service your on it might help someone answer your question.

 

[startingaparty]

If you could give a clue what service your on it might help someone answer your question.

Apologies. It’s the 0653 from Blackpool North to Manchester Airport.

 

[2L70]

TPE have decided they want to go to Blackpool again?

 

[Watershed]

The Northern train I’m on this morning has a conductor doing ticket checks in full TPE uniform. Does anyone know why this might be?

Are you sure it is a conductor? Could it be a member of revenue protection staff?

 

[RailWonderer]

Power has gotten to his head.
Serious answer: TPE operates the Preston - Airport leg so he could still check tickets and issue penalties if people have no ticket at all rather than if they just have the wrong ticket type. He shouldn't be on that train though if he is a guard.

 

[Liverpool 507]

It may be a joint Northern and TPE revenue operation as this does happen with other TOCs from time to time.

 

[startingaparty]

Are you sure it is a conductor? Could it be a member of revenue protection staff?

It may be a joint Northern and TPE revenue operation as this does happen with other TOCs from time to time.

It wasn’t a revenue inspector. He was checking tickets and the chap in front of me hadn’t bought one and bought one on the train. The conductor in TPE uniform said to buy before he boards in future because revenue staff might issue a penalty fare.

The TPE conductor had on a TPE coat, bag and even hat so I’m pretty sure it wasn’t just a Northern guard who’d put on a TPE coat because it was lying around the mess room.

 

[Efini92]

It wasn’t a revenue inspector. He was checking tickets and the chap in front of me hadn’t bought one and bought one on the train. The conductor in TPE uniform said to buy before he boards in future because revenue staff might issue a penalty fare.

The TPE conductor had on a TPE coat, bag and even hat so I’m pretty sure it wasn’t just a Northern guard who’d put on a TPE coat because it was lying around the mess room.

Could it be one of the ex Blackpool tpe staff? Northerns current uniform is shockingly poor and it’s not uncommon to see staff in their older better quality uniform.

 

[skyhigh]

Were they in the front unit? I would hazard a guess that the TPE guard was on a pass ride, and as the service in question was formed of 2x3 car 331s with no through gangway they agreed with the Northern guard to sell tickets in the front set.

 

[Watershed]

Were they in the front unit? I would hazard a guess that the TPE guard was on a pass ride, and as the service in question was formed of 2x3 car 331s with no through gangway they agreed with the Northern guard to sell tickets in the front set.

There's no guards booked to pass on that service, and it's worked by a Wigan conductor between Preston and the Airport. So the only thing I can imagine is that it was indeed a TPE RPI (they have a fairly similar uniform to the guards), or some kind of out of course working.

 

[Starmill]

It used to be pretty common for TransPennine Express crews from Scarborough and Cleethorpes to work Northern services, but no longer. For a time some Blackpool North Northern crews worked TPE services (and indeed vice versa) because they had recently transferred both staff and routes. I wouldn't think any such arrangements have been in place for a long time though now.

Serious answer: TPE operates the Preston - Airport

Are you sure that's the case?

 

[startingaparty]

I did forget to mention the conductor in TPE uniform alighted at Manchester Piccadilly and did not go all the way to Manchester Airport.

 

[david1212]

A couple of questions
- how do you tell if the staff member is a conductor / guard or revenue inspector ?
- while someone only trained as a revenue inspector can not be the conductor / guard what about the reverse given a conductor / guard ought to know all the ticketing regulations relevant to the route?

 

[Watershed]

- how do you tell if the staff member is a conductor / guard or revenue inspector ?

As a "layperson", probably by their namebadge. The fact that revenue staff typically go out in pairs is also a clue, though occasionally they do go on their own and conductors can have trainees or assessors with them.

- while someone only trained as a revenue inspector can not be the conductor / guard what about the reverse given a conductor / guard ought to know all the ticketing regulations relevant to the route?

No, conductors aren't authorised to issue Penalty Fares for example, and are trained to avoid conflict and walk away. Whereas RPIs would usually be expected to engage with 'difficult customers' to a point. At some TOCs, conductors can check tickets at revenue blocks but this is fairly rare.

 

[Fokx]

A couple of questions
- how do you tell if the staff member is a conductor / guard or revenue inspector ?
- while someone only trained as a revenue inspector can not be the conductor / guard what about the reverse given a conductor / guard ought to know all the ticketing regulations relevant to the route?

Q1 - Namebadge states role under the name and most revenue staff will wear a bodycam
Q2 - Yes a guard can have the relevant knowledge and ability to sell tickets for other routes but Not able to issue UFN’s or PF, but can collect details for a TIR or UFN to be processed by revenue

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Apr 2022 ==

I did forget to mention the conductor in TPE uniform alighted at Manchester Piccadilly.

There’s a large revenue team based at Piccadilly/Stalybridge and it’s where they will pick up ticket equipment, bodycams and floats.

There’s also a conductor base at Piccadilly.

The biggest clue as to if they are revenue staff would be if they were physically scanning tickets, if they weren’t, they’ll be a conductor as RMT conductors are currently not scanning tickets but are visually checking them

 

[muz379]

The biggest clue as to if they are revenue staff would be if they were physically scanning tickets, if they weren’t, they’ll be a conductor as RMT conductors are currently not scanning tickets but are visually checking them

I'd argue a bigger clue would be if they were opearting the doors or not , revenue staff should never be operating the doors -BPN to MIA is worked exclusively by 331's now so the doors are operated from the saloon on there .

Whilst the RMT is asking conductors not to scan tickets , there may well be some not complying with this instruction .

 

[Fokx]

I'd argue a bigger clue would be if they were opearting the doors or not , revenue staff should never be operating the doors -BPN to MIA is worked exclusively by 331's now so the doors are operated from the saloon on there .

They wouldn’t be operating the doors in the front set.
A northern conductor would be doing so from the rear.

 

[Starmill]

Some operators do have staff trained in safety critical roles (not necccesarily conductors) who are also authorised collectors, although it's fairly rare. Chiltern Railways took it one step further and had some staff trained as guards, gateline and RPI. At some operators booking office staff might also be authorised collectors. There is quite a bit of variation.

 

[david1212]

Thanks for the responses.

Interesting that conductor / guard can not issue a penalty fare even if passenger is co-operative.