How can public transport cut energy use

[Ken H]

With some massive increases in energy proces, what measures can public transport concerns do to cut energy use?

Went onto Hellifield station at 18:00 on Monday. Sun out, birds singing. But all the lights on.

And trains run round with their lights on all day even when its bright weather.

What else could be done.

(I am talking cutting costs, not worrying about emissions etc.)

 

[zwk500]

With some massive increases in energy proces, what measures can public transport concerns do to cut energy use?

Went onto Hellifield station at 18:00 on Monday. Sun out, birds singing. But all the lights on.

And trains run round with their lights on all day even when its bright weather.

What else could be done.

(I am talking cutting costs, not worrying about emissions etc.)

Lights by themselves are not a major issue. To cut costs, installing solar panels on every roof and canopy would help a lot.
To cut usage, traction will be the biggest area to focus on. Less trains, more efficient motors, regenerative braking etc.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Electrification

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It’s still dark inside tunnels during daylight hours so trains are always going to have saloon lights on. I’m sure someone will sell the idea of closing ticket offices as being an environmental decision though.

 

[6Gman]

It’s still dark inside tunnels during daylight hours so trains are always going to have saloon lights on. I’m sure someone will sell the idea of closing ticket offices as being an environmental decision though.

Some of us oldies may remember when saloon lighting was (sometimes) switched on just before entering tunnels and shortly after leaving tunnels.

Can't happen these days (revenue + H&S).

 

[AndrewE]

Some of us oldies may remember when saloon lighting was (sometimes) switched on just before entering tunnels and shortly after leaving tunnels.

Can't happen these days (revenue + H&S).

Actually the standing instruction was that trains were to go into service with all the lights on, as it reduced the chances of hooligans taking the bulbs out. However heritage railways definitely do try to conserve their battery life by only switching them on for tunnels (25mph and short runs not being adequate for recharging, maybe not even enough to power the 24V lamps in a Mk 1 coach.)

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The access to justice act of 1999 changed everything like that as it introduced "no win no fee" court cases. Fell over and broke your arm before that time and you could peruse a claim if you could afford a solicitor, but most people didn't bother. Since that say then anybody can claim for anything, it made businesses and institutions scared of litigation and as a result made the world a safer place. Some like to claim it's "health and safety gone mad" but now kids playgrounds aren't a bunch of concrete blocks balanced precariously on top of each other and, amongst many other things, public areas are generally well lit. I'm surprised we've not seen more in the way of motion sensitive lighting, particularly at quieter stations on branch lines which can often go hours without seeing a passenger but presumably it would cost more to rip out the existing lighting to install new stuff than it is just to leave what is there in situ until it's life expired.

 

[skyhigh]

And trains run round with their lights on all day even when its bright weather.

Presuming you mean internal rather than external lights - it would be quite a distraction to drivers to get them to remember to turn lights on and off when you go through tunnels. Most modern stock does have 'active' lighting that adjusts to the conditions rather than being on full brightness constantly. Not to mention that the vast majority of internal lighting is now LED (all our 15x have LED internal lighting), so the energy usage will be pretty tiny. You wouldn't notice a difference in MPG on a diesel unit if you turned the lights off!

If you did mean external lighting, I would hope the reasons behind that were obvious.

I'm surprised we've not seen more in the way of motion sensitive lighting, particularly at quieter stations on branch lines which can often go hours without seeing a passenger but presumably it would cost more to rip out the existing lighting to install new stuff than it is just to leave what is there in situ until it's life expired.

The majority of lighting on Northern-managed stations has been replaced with motion-sensor LED lighting as an energy saving measure - so it is happening.

 

[Ken H]

Presuming you mean internal rather than external lights - it would be quite a distraction to drivers to get them to remember to turn lights on and off when you go through tunnels. Most modern stock does have 'active' lighting that adjusts to the conditions rather than being on full brightness constantly. Not to mention that the vast majority of internal lighting is now LED (all our 15x have LED internal lighting), so the energy usage will be pretty tiny. You wouldn't notice a difference in MPG on a diesel unit if you turned the lights off!

If you did mean external lighting, I would hope the reasons behind that were obvious.

I did mean internal lights. in modernisation plan DMUs the lights were turned on and off by the driver.

and buses in the 60's used to run with internal lights off. The switched were in the drivers cab and he would turn them on at dusk.

But then most stuff had dynamos so electric was in short supply on vehicles. Now we have alternators so thats less of an issue.

 

[randyrippley]

If you really want to save energy, reduce speed. Set an absolute maximum speed limit of 75mph, would save a fortune in energy costs. You'd get an additional saving as new stock could be built to lower crash protection standards, saving weight. High speed travel is no longer affordable.

While you're at it, revert back to the days of the Arab oil crisis and impose a max 50mph national speed limit for all vehicles, enforced by cameras. LOTS of cameras. Should reduce fuel use, and push some to use public transport

Finally, ban, or tax out of existence, all oversized tonka toys aka MPVs/SUVs such as Range Rovers or BMW x-series. Horrendous energy wasters

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Agree with @randyrippley

Slower trains, slower cars, lots of advantages.

Air-Con could be switched off in Spring and Fall, at least.

Dunno about how little energy modern lights use, but one would suppose hundreds of bulbs burning for 16 hours a day do use a significant amount of energy. Looks awful too, very irritating.

 

[zwk500]

Slower trains, slower cars, lots of advantages.

Slower trains yes, cars are outside the scope of the thread title.

Air-Con could be switched off in Spring and Fall, at least.

Autumn, dear boy

Dunno about how little energy modern lights use, but one would suppose hundreds of bulbs burning for 16 hours a day do use a significant amount of energy. Looks awful too, very irritating.

Light bulbs generally, but especially modern LEDs, use such a small amount of energy it really isn't worth worrying about them in comparison to big things like traction power. Have a look at your smart meter - I bet turning all the lights on or off barely even registers, but turning on your kettle will make the 'usage now' jump up.

 

[Andypandy1968]

If you really want to save energy, reduce speed. Set an absolute maximum speed limit of 75mph, would save a fortune in energy costs. You'd get an additional saving as new stock could be built to lower crash protection standards, saving weight. High speed travel is no longer affordable.

While you're at it, revert back to the days of the Arab oil crisis and impose a max 50mph national speed limit for all vehicles, enforced by cameras. LOTS of cameras. Should reduce fuel use, and push some to use public transport

Finally, ban, or tax out of existence, all oversized tonka toys aka MPVs/SUVs such as Range Rovers or BMW x-series. Horrendous energy wasters

Meanwhile back in the real world

 

[Skymonster]

The best thing we can do to cut costs is get out of our heads looney ideas around it being acceptable to pay more for energy on environmental grounds. Ditch the climate change levies, start digging up coal again if it can be done more cheaply than importing fuel at current prices, focus in on home-grown schemes like fracking, and really wind up on programslike nuclear.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Mar 2022 ==

While you're at it, revert back to the days of the Arab oil crisis and impose a max 50mph national speed limit for all vehicles, enforced by cameras.

Finally, ban, or tax out of existence, all oversized tonka toys aka MPVs/SUVs such as Range Rovers or BMW x-series. Horrendous energy wasters

Neither of which will reduce the cost of energy in public transport, which is what this tread is meant to be about.

 

[Andypandy1968]

The best thing we can do to cut costs is get out of our heads looney ideas around it being acceptable to pay more for energy on environmental grounds. Ditch the climate change levies, start digging up coal again if it can be done more cheaply than importing fuel at current prices, focus in on home-grown schemes like fracking, and really wind up on programslike nuclear.

You sir should be prime minister

 

[Wolfie]

The best thing we can do to cut costs is get out of our heads looney ideas around it being acceptable to pay more for energy on environmental grounds. Ditch the climate change levies, start digging up coal again if it can be done more cheaply than importing fuel at current prices, focus in on home-grown schemes like fracking, and really wind up on programslike nuclear.

Sod the planet, huh.

 

[PTR 444]

Maybe turn the lights off on one or two coaches permanently. Would also make it a whole lot easier to get some sleep on the move or do some stargazing for the small subset of people who would actually wish to do so from a train. Anyone worried about safety can always move to a lit coach.

 

[Andypandy1968]

Sod the planet, huh.

No coincidence that the people who come out with stupid lazy statements like that are the middle class Liberal green eco nazis who are not affected by the sky rocketing energy prices

 

[zwk500]

No coincidence that the people who come out with stupid lazy statements like that are the middle class Liberal green eco nazis who are not affected by the sky rocketing energy prices

What makes you think middle class people are not affected by rising energy prices? They have appliances and vehicles to run just like everybody else.

 

[C96]

What makes you think middle class people are not affected by rising energy prices? They have appliances and vehicles to run just like everybody else.

Whilst true. The impact is on different scales.

A rise in energy costs means eating into disposable income for middle class, whereas for lower class that have no disposable income, it means having to choose between what necessities to purchase.

 

[Rockhopperr]

Let’s start with the Absolutely pointless taxis for train crew every day because of idiotic, lazy rostering. Massive wastage of resources, money and extra emissions.

 

[P Binnersley]

The best way to cut energy usage is to fill the trains and buses with people who would otherwise be driving cars. We need to take a holistic view.

 

[D821]

No coincidence that the people who come out with stupid lazy statements like that are the middle class Liberal green eco nazis who are not affected by the sky rocketing energy prices

Are they? Please post your evidence to prove this. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath....

 

[Purple Orange]

The best thing public transport can do to reduce energy usage is for it to actually increase its energy usage. The biggest impact will be for more people to use public transport and drive their car less, which requires investment in services whether that be bus, tram or train.

 

[dk1]

Apart from regenerative braking & the occasional request to select lower power when accelerating during the fuel depot blockades in the early 2000s, I’ve never known the railway to be that bothered about energy consumption.

 

[C96]

Reducing tannoy announcements for “see it, say it, sorted” should help reduce electricity consumption.

 

[yorksrob]

Maybe turn the lights off on one or two coaches permanently. Would also make it a whole lot easier to get some sleep on the move or do some stargazing for the small subset of people who would actually wish to do so from a train. Anyone worried about safety can always move to a lit coach.

Yes, or just have dimmed lighting (one in five tubes or something).

It would be interesting to compare numbers in each part of the train !

 

[Starmill]

It’s still dark inside tunnels during daylight hours so trains are always going to have saloon lights on. I’m sure someone will sell the idea of closing ticket offices as being an environmental decision though.

There are a lot of trams that have auto lights. I.e. the saloon lighting switches itself off if it detects bright light levels. I'm not certain if it could be rolled out to mainline rolling stock though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2022 ==

Yes, or just have dimmed lighting (one in five tubes or something).

It would be interesting to compare numbers in each part of the train !

Not on trains, but lots of stations have dimmer lights now. They go into low power mode when no movement is detected, putting out only a small amount of light, but whenever a train passes the platform the lights detect its movement and they go back up to full brightness. It means that whenever anyone is stepping from a train they can see where they're going, but for the majority of the time when there's nobody around at night less enough energy is used.

 

[supervc-10]

No coincidence that the people who come out with stupid lazy statements like that are the middle class Liberal green eco nazis who are not affected by the sky rocketing energy prices

Completely ignoring the fact that it's the poor who are going to be most screwed by climate change, not us middle class types who will be able to afford to heat our homes when climate change gives these islands the same weather as Winnipeg.
I'd also like to point out that increasing energy costs very much do affect me, and my commute costs in particular have skyrocketed, despite driving a little Seat Ibiza with a 1.0 3-cylinder engine.

The best thing that we collectively can do to reduce energy use is to use public transport. Making it more attractive- with better frequency, reliability, comfort, etc is the way to reduce energy use. Get me out of my car and onto a train! If the train to Preston was reliable, and linked in well with buses to the hospital, I'd do that. But it doesn't. So I drive.

 

[Starmill]

Apart from regenerative braking & the occasional request to select lower power when accelerating during the fuel depot blockades in the early 2000s, I’ve never known the railway to be that bothered about energy consumption.

There's definitely focus on the ancillaries, such as depot heating or station lighting etc. There's really not much point in focusing on the traction energy though it has to be said.