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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

Dave2105

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19 Mar 2019
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Which probably means it’s nearer 15ft. The heights are often off a bit to reduce bridge strikes.

I do wonder how often it’s actually used by Double Deckers then? Presumably all out of service.
I live next to the railway bridge. First used to send double deckers that way all the time.
Ideally they should extend the 45 from Queen Margaret University via Stoneybank to Millerhill and Shawfair, or extend the 140 from Tesco to the Royal Infirmary giving Penicuik, Loanhead etc a direct bus link to the hospital.
 
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Avenger20

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I live next to the railway bridge. First used to send double deckers that way all the time.
Ideally they should extend the 45 from Queen Margaret University via Stoneybank to Millerhill and Shawfair, or extend the 140 from Tesco to the Royal Infirmary giving Penicuik, Loanhead etc a direct bus link to the hospital.
Whilst indeed it would be direct, it's not very direct at all is it? Would still be better off (by a rather long way!) taking the 140 to Dalkeith and changing onto a 48 or 49.

Would be akin to taking a 49 from Dalkeith to the Fort rather than the 48...

Ideally, these new developments at Millerhill and Burgh Gate need a direct service from Edinburgh City Centre and to Musselburgh High Street. The 33 would appear to be the best option at the moment, terminating either at Tesco to at Musselburgh Grammar.
 

Devon Sunset

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I live next to the railway bridge. First used to send double deckers that way all the time.
Ideally they should extend the 45 from Queen Margaret University via Stoneybank to Millerhill and Shawfair, or extend the 140 from Tesco to the Royal Infirmary giving Penicuik, Loanhead etc a direct bus link to the hospital.
First did indeed send deckers under that bridge all the time including 14'6" Ailsa's and 14'10" Lions but the road has since been resurfaced so who knows what the clearance is on it now.
 

Dave2105

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Whilst indeed it would be direct, it's not very direct at all is it? Would still be better off (by a rather long way!) taking the 140 to Dalkeith and changing onto a 48 or 49.

Would be akin to taking a 49 from Dalkeith to the Fort rather than the 48...

Ideally, these new developments at Millerhill and Burgh Gate need a direct service from Edinburgh City Centre and to Musselburgh High Street. The 33 would appear to be the best option at the moment, terminating either at Tesco to at Musselburgh Grammar.
Or with the old craighall services getting a refurbishment could that be used as a terminus point or interchange point with East Coast Buses and maybe an extension of the 400 up the A1 and 33 extension
 

Jordan Adam

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I think it’s more likely we’ll see an extension to the 44 and/or others to serve the new housing estate in Wallyford first. There’s even bus shelters already up.
It's usually part of the planning agreement for new housing developments that basic public transport infrastructure is included. There's a handful of streets up here that have had bus stops and shelters for 10+ years despite having no bus service at al.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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One I’ve thing noticed today is given the number of routes running with double deckers that were/are (I’m not sure which) on the single deck rota, how many of them still need it? 1, 2, 24 all seem reasonably busy but the 45 doesn’t look as if it’s needs them most of the time now, it like the 1 is half singles/half doubles. 42 seems to be coping ok with the singles again and has done for some time now. Even some of the ECB routes may cope with singles again. Just an interesting observation.
 

computerSaysNo

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One I’ve thing noticed today is given the number of routes running with double deckers that were/are (I’m not sure which) on the single deck rota, how many of them still need it? 1, 2, 24 all seem reasonably busy but the 45 doesn’t look as if it’s needs them most of the time now, it like the 1 is half singles/half doubles. 42 seems to be coping ok with the singles again and has done for some time now. Even some of the ECB routes may cope with singles again. Just an interesting observation.
I've got some comments about East Coast that I've been thinking about recently.
Running the 104 with deckers must cost considerably more than running it with singles, mainly because of the high-speed section along the A1; the air resistance of double-deck vehicles at speed must be very high in comparison to a single-deck vehicle. Is there a particular reason the 104 users deckers? I've never really seen it that busy.
Also with the 104, I've noticed it goes down to hourly in the evenings. With the quieter roads (and using single-deck vehicles), could the 104 be kept at half-hourly and extended through to Dunbar, and the X7 suspended, in the evening/late evening? That would allow Wallyford and Tranent to retain a half-hourly fast service, and Haddington and Dunbar could still then retain a relatively quick half-hourly service. I assume this would save on drivers as well but I haven't done the maths.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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I've got some comments about East Coast that I've been thinking about recently.
Running the 104 with deckers must cost considerably more than running it with singles, mainly because of the high-speed section along the A1; the air resistance of double-deck vehicles at speed must be very high in comparison to a single-deck vehicle. Is there a particular reason the 104 users deckers? I've never really seen it that busy.
Also with the 104, I've noticed it goes down to hourly in the evenings. With the quieter roads (and using single-deck vehicles), could the 104 be kept at half-hourly and extended through to Dunbar, and the X7 suspended, in the evening/late evening? That would allow Wallyford and Tranent to retain a half-hourly fast service, and Haddington and Dunbar could still then retain a relatively quick half-hourly service. I assume this would save on drivers as well but I haven't done the maths.
In the long run I suspect something with the Dunbar buses will change when East Linton station is opened. I suspect what may happen is the X7 is reduced to hourly (possibly still half hourly Haddington Traprain Terrace to Edinburgh) and the 106 extends to Dunbar all of the time to maintain the local connections.

For the 104 to run to Dunbar at any time it would require single deckers, this is because of a low bridge in East Linton. That or it bypasses East Linton. I don’t think the height issue was as bad before, it may have fallen victim to the road being raised through resurfacing.
 

eh1

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One I’ve thing noticed today is given the number of routes running with double deckers that were/are (I’m not sure which) on the single deck rota, how many of them still need it? 1, 2, 24 all seem reasonably busy but the 45 doesn’t look as if it’s needs them most of the time now, it like the 1 is half singles/half doubles. 42 seems to be coping ok with the singles again and has done for some time now. Even some of the ECB routes may cope with singles again. Just an interesting observation.
I'm not sure how much logic there is behind it - I have noticed you tend to see the doubles on the 1 and 2 head back to garage earlier in the night though. I was on a 2 a few weeks back with the football on at Tynecastle and you guessed it... single deck!
 

Blindtraveler

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Wonder if the amount of doubles on routes that were traditionally single deck still says more about single deck availability than it does about the need to retain deckers for extra capacity or some kind of physical distancing which on other routes has definitely been abandoned, anybody on the 37 from town at around 5 p.m. last night will testify
 

CN04NRJ

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Wonder if the amount of doubles on routes that were traditionally single deck still says more about single deck availability than it does about the need to retain deckers for extra capacity or some kind of physical distancing which on other routes has definitely been abandoned, anybody on the 37 from town at around 5 p.m. last night will testify

In all fairness the guidance for distancing on public transport ended a long time ago now, and masks won't be compulsory in two weeks.
 

Auld reekie

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Without me going through each individual route.
Does anyone know the longest route with Lothian Buses?
 

Blindtraveler

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On the city network I would hazard a guess that the tranent 26 is a strong contender along with perhaps the full route penicuik 37

Country probs X28? East coast it's probably between the x 7 and 124
 

stevenedin

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I know it used to be the X15 between Penicuik and Prestonpans but now that it was withdrawn I’d probably agree with the above.
 

DunsBus

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On the city network I would hazard a guess that the tranent 26 is a strong contender along with perhaps the full route penicuik 37

Country probs X28? East coast it's probably between the x 7 and 124
X7 is the longest route on East Coast as it's run on a split registration (Haymarket-Dunbar and Dunbar-Spott Road, Asda).
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Without me going through each individual route.
Does anyone know the longest route with Lothian Buses?
Seems likely to be the 49 if it’s just Lothian we’re talking about - both time and distance. Obviously one or more of the subsidiary routes will be longer.
 

alexf380

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Just to add another one into the equation, wasn't it the 33 when it went all the way to Gorebridge? I have a feeling the 44 is the longest one now but I might be wrong.
Country probs X28? East coast it's probably between the x 7 and 124
X7 longest by distance, 124 longest by journey time (and it definitely takes a long time! :lol: )
 

computerSaysNo

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X7 longest by distance, 124 longest by journey time (and it definitely takes a long time! :lol:
The 124 feels longer as well because of the hard seats and tiny windows in the Gemini 3s as well :frown: I'm secretly hoping that when East Coast get a new batch of vehicles, they'll get new E400MMC's and use them to replace the Gemini 3s... I know it's unlikely but we can hope!
 
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FlybeDash8Q400

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The 124 feels longer as well bc of the hard seats and tiny windows in the Gemini 3s as well :frown: I'm secretly hoping that when East Coast get a new batch of vehicles, they'll get new E400MMC's and use them to replace the Gemini 3s... I know it's unlikely but we can hope!
Wishful from myself as well, but in the next few years I wish those 8 were moved over to Lothian with ECB getting new doubles to replace the current lot (minus 5 or so for the school runs).
 

Blindtraveler

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I think a design like the plaxton panther LE would be a good one to try on routes like the x 7 and 124.

I certainly agree that the existing Gemini 3 is not the best fit for That route and with the amount of rattles and things I don't know how the drivers stand it er


Maybe write offe time for a demo of that and perhaps one of the hydrogen-powered deckers rwright offer
 

Bus9120UK

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The 124 feels longer as well bc of the hard seats and tiny windows in the Gemini 3s as well :frown: I'm secretly hoping that when East Coast get a new batch of vehicles, they'll get new E400MMC's and use them to replace the Gemini 3s... I know it's unlikely but we can hope!
I had recently completed the journey, and completely disagree. The seats were very comfortable and the windows were perfect size (I sat upstairs). Much better than 939 which I had earlier in the day, that had rock hard seats and terrible rattles.
 

Devon Sunset

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For the 104 to run to Dunbar at any time it would require single deckers, this is because of a low bridge in East Linton. That or it bypasses East Linton. I don’t think the height issue was as bad before, it may have fallen victim to the road being raised through resurfacing.
First and it's predecessors used to run low hight Olympians(13'83/4") under this bridge. I'm pretty sure it's signposted at 13'9", it used to look really tight when sitting upstairs.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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First and it's predecessors used to run low hight Olympians(13'83/4") under this bridge. I'm pretty sure it's signposted at 13'9", it used to look really tight when sitting upstairs.
I remember First using Omnidekkas for a while about a decade or so ago on the old X6 (this may have been a slightly different route to the X6 we saw when First pulled out). This was after the coaches used on the short lived X45 went. The bridge is indeed still that height now.
I think a design like the plaxton panther LE would be a good one to try on routes like the x 7 and 124.

I certainly agree that the existing Gemini 3 is not the best fit for That route and with the amount of rattles and things I don't know how the drivers stand it er


Maybe write offe time for a demo of that and perhaps one of the hydrogen-powered deckers rwright offer
The Panther LE would be a great option for the X5 and X7. I’m not sure it would be so practical on the 104 or 124 though, which are pretty much like any other suburban stopper route until they leave Edinburgh (124 even further, Prestonpans arguably).
 

mb88

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Electric charging points have been installed at Livingston depot in preparation for the replacement of some or all of the Ford Transit Connect shuttle vans with electric cars.
 
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DunsBus

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A registration shows in the latest Notices & Proceedings (#2379) for a timetable change on the Airlink from 1st May 2022.
 

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