Would you claim

[Runningaround]

Would you claim Delay Repay if;
Your original plan involved a trip to a station for a football match it got cancelled while you are on route an alternative further up the line becomes available.
You stay on the train and pay for the extra fare from your original destination.
The train arrives at your original destination that you still have a train ticket for and is 30 mins+ late .
It makes up time you are within delay repay time at your new destination.
I would have claimed on my original journey had I got off that station.

Would you claim on your original ticket considering you've paid more than expected for a train?

If the delay is entirely the fault of the TOC is it a matter of principle to you to and was rammed?
The train was late due to it being a slower unit than the usual, it was also fuller than usual due to being far smaller than usual unit and with a local derby being played along the route. League Fixtures are known well in advance so it could have been planned better.

 

[skyhigh]

Would you claim on your original ticket considering you've paid more than expected for a train?

No. You have two tickets for one journey. The overall delay to your journey was lower than the delay repay threshold.

Holding split tickets and wanting to cherry pick delay repay, yet also wanting delay repay to apply to the whole when it suits you is trying to have your cake and eat it, in my opinion.

 

[Haywain]

Would you claim Delay Repay if;
Your original plan involved a trip to a station for a football match it got cancelled while you are on route an alternative further up the line becomes available.
You stay on the train and pay for the extra fare from your original destination.
The train arrives at your original destination that you still have a train ticket for and is 30 mins+ late .
It makes up time you are within delay repay time at your new destination.
I would have claimed on my original journey had I got off that station.

The journey you made was not delayed sufficiently, therefore you have no claim. What might have happened isn't relevant.

Would you claim on your original ticket considering you've paid more than expected for a train?

How have you paid more than expected? By going further than expected? If so, the additional part of the journey was your choice - nobody forced you.

with a local derby being played along the route. League Fixtures are known well in advance so it could have been planned better.

You're right, it could have been planned better. The football authorities have access to train timetables and it is foolish to arrange local derby matches.

 

[Runningaround]

No. You have two tickets for one journey. The overall delay to your journey was lower than the delay repay threshold.

Holding split tickets and wanting to cherry pick delay repay, yet also wanting delay repay to apply to the whole when it suits you is trying to have your cake and eat it, in my opinion.

I bought the original tickets before the change on route. If I had got off there I'd have been eligible for delay repay, tickets were not split they were for a new journey, from their to new destination. The new journey was in time but still rammed. If i'd bought them as a split from home to the new destination they would have been cheaper. claiming delay repay for my original tickets is a form of getting a little bit of my money back.

 

[Haywain]

claiming delay repay for my original tickets is a form of getting a little bit of my money back.

In a fraudulent manner.

 

[skyhigh]

tickets were not split they were for a new journey, from their to new destination.

No. You made a journey from A-C. You held tickets from A-B and B-C to make that one journey. Two tickets for one journey = split tickets, even if you didn't do it to save money.

Unless you're suggesting you made two journeys, but you just didn't get off the train between them...

 

[Runningaround]

The journey you made was not delayed sufficiently, therefore you have no claim. What might have happened isn't relevant.

How have you paid more than expected? By going further than expected? If so, the additional part of the journey was your choice - nobody forced you.

You're right, it could have been planned better. The football authorities have access to train timetables and it is foolish to arrange local derby matches.

Foolish to arrange local sports fixtures on a Saturday at 3pm in June for a fixture in March? OK i've know idea where you came up with that one, but football has been around almost as long as the railway and by now a fixture played 100 times should have a realisation a train will be busier and shouldn't be shorter than the usual service.

If I'd paid for the new destination as a trip on it's own via trainsplit or whoever it would have been cheaper than buying to the original destination and then purchasing from that to the new. The tickets were not split as they do not split at that point.

 

[skyhigh]

The tickets were not split

By any sensible definition your tickets were split. You made one journey with more than one ticket?

 

[Runningaround]

No. You made a journey from A-C. You held tickets from A-B and B-C to make that one journey. Two tickets for one journey = split tickets, even if you didn't do it to save money.

Unless you're suggesting you made two journeys, but you just didn't get off the train between them...

I paid for A -B this was delayed by 30 mins + and there wasn't any point getting off there anymore as the game was cancelled. I then bought from B - C while on the train. If I'd got off and then caught another train are you saying I could claim for A - B, but not for staying on the train?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Mar 2022 ==

By any sensible definition your tickets were split. You made one journey with more than one ticket?

Splitting the ticket I gathered is to get from A - B at a cheaper fare by splitting in-between. I did not get a cheaper fare by doing this. I paid the fare for A-B then a separate purchase from B- C. A-B was late and passed the 30 min delay repay. If I had got off and then back on on a later train to C will I have been eligible for A - B? But then If train to C was as busy as the one I was on I could have claimed for B-C as i'd have been 60 mins late to C.
My B-C wasn't late at destination as it made up the time.

If had cut my journey short due to the delay or cancellation of a service making the destination untenable I'd have been able to claim my fare back.
As as happened before when trains get cancelled while on route for the following day without RRB's being in place, I cut the journey short and head home and have had full refunds.

 

[Haywain]

Foolish to arrange local sports fixtures on a Saturday at 3pm in June for a fixture in March? OK i've know idea where you came up with that one, but football has been around almost as long as the railway and by now a fixture played 100 times should have a realisation a train will be busier and shouldn't be shorter than the usual service.

Simply making the point that the railway does not revolve around football fixtures.

The tickets were not split as they do not split at that point.

Tickets split where two ticket are used for a single journey. It does not only mean using two tickets to save money.

 

[AlterEgo]

In essence, the question is “should I make a fraudulent delay repay claim”. The delay is based on your entire journey, and the fact you need to perform mental gymnastics to attempt to justify the claim should have answered the question in the first place.

You should not fraudulently claim delay repay based on part of your journey.

 

[XAM2175]

I paid for A -B this was delayed by 30 mins + and there wasn't any point getting off there anymore as the game was cancelled. I then bought from B - C while on the train. If I'd got off and then caught another train are you saying I could claim for A - B, but not for staying on the train?

Arguably no to that either. Delay Repay is assessed based on the extent by which your arrival at the end of your journey is delayed. Your tickets A-B and B-C form a single journey from A to C, in which you experienced no overall delay.

Other members are correct to note that this is a question of ethics because technically there is nothing to stop you submitting a claim for your A-B ticket alone. We are fortunate that the ticketing system is set up to allow us the best of both worlds when splitting tickets - we (usually) get the price benefits of buying splits, but with Delay Repay rights equivalent to holders of through tickets, and I concur with the opinion that claiming A-B alone would be exploitative and against the spirit of the system.

If i'd bought them as a split from home to the new destination they would have been cheaper. claiming delay repay for my original tickets is a form of getting a little bit of my money back.

The correct course of action here would be to have paid an excess fare to change your A-B ticket into an A-C one.

 

[Runningaround]

Simply making the point that the railway does not revolve around football fixtures.

Tickets split where two ticket are used for a single journey. It does not only mean using two tickets to save money.

They weren't any different to getting off at b then travelling on the train from b - c. A - B was late.

 

[ainsworth74]

They weren't any different to getting off at b then travelling on the train from b - c. A - B was late.

But presumably you didn't do that? But in any event your journey was still from A to C the fact you changed train (or didn't) is irrelevant.

 

[Runningaround]

In essence, the question is “should I make a fraudulent delay repay claim”. The delay is based on your entire journey, and the fact you need to perform mental gymnastics to attempt to justify the claim should have answered the question in the first place.

You should not fraudulently claim delay repay based on part of your journey.

Where is the fraud? I was late on my train to B, if I'd claimed there and then for A - B then bought to C then I'd be in my rights.

 

[skyhigh]

I'd got off and then caught another train are you saying I could claim for A - B, but not for staying on the train?

If you'd got off and completed your journey there, yes that would be fine. Getting off then getting the next train is still using two tickets to make one journey. You clearly made a single journey though.

Splitting the ticket I gathered is to get from A - B at a cheaper fare by splitting in-between. I did not get a cheaper fare by doing this.

No. Splitting is using multiple tickets to make a single journey - even if you still pay more than a through ticket would be.

If had cut my journey short due to the delay or cancellation of a service making the destination untenable I'd have been able to claim my fare back.
As as happened before when trains get cancelled while on route for the following day without RRB's being in place, I cut the journey short and head home and have had full refunds.

If you had chosen to abandon your journey due to the disruption, you would have been entitled to a refund. But you chose to extend your journey and completed that journey within the threshold for delay repay. You are not due anything.

I was late on my train to B, if I'd claimed there and then for A - B then bought to C then I'd be in my rights.

That is debatable.

 

[miklcct]

I would claim until the point where the delay occurred and the "ticket switch" is made as this is a legitimate "break of journey".

In other words, the A-C ticket was valid on route A-B-D-C, but because of disruption, the train arrived late into B so I bought another ticket for travel on B-E-C. In such case if the arrival into B was more than 15 minutes late, I would submit a delay repay claim specifying A-B as the journey, as "technically" I abandoned by A-B-D-C journey at that time and made another B-E-C journey.

They weren't any different to getting off at b then travelling on the train from b - c. A - B was late.

But presumably you didn't do that? But in any event your journey was still from A to C the fact you changed train (or didn't) is irrelevant.

My understanding is that OP didn't make the original journey in whole. He abandoned it due to delay and made another journey afterwards (as the routing was different, so it must be a different journey). So apart from delay repay between A-B, he might also be entitled for a refund for fare difference between the A-B-D-C ticket and the cheapest walk-up A-B ticket.

 

[Runningaround]

Arguably no to that either. Delay Repay is assessed based on the extent by which your arrival at the end of your journey is delayed. Your tickets A-B and B-C form a single journey from A to C, in which you experienced no overall delay.

Other members are correct to note that this is a question of ethics because technically there is nothing to stop you submitting a claim for your A-B ticket alone. We are fortunate that the ticketing system is set up to allow us the best of both worlds when splitting tickets - we (usually) get the price benefits of buying splits, but with Delay Repay rights equivalent to holders of through tickets, and I concur with the opinion that claiming A-B alone would be exploitative and against the spirit of the system.


The correct course of action here would be to have paid an excess fare to change your A-B ticket into an A-C one.

I don't believe there should be any need for split ticketing, trips should be the fare at the split price but as a whole journey. Their are systems to work it out like trainsplit. You put in your starting point and destination then if the split is cheaper that is the fare you are charged.

 

[WesternLancer]

Where is the fraud? I was late on my train to B, if I'd claimed there and then for A - B then bought to C then I'd be in my rights.

Had you been planning to nip out at B and visit a shop or meet a friend between trains, and this was foiled by the delay as you had to press on to C, I'd tend to think that would be justifiable for a claim.

 

[Runningaround]

If you'd got off and completed your journey there, yes that would be fine. Getting off then getting the next train is still using two tickets to make one journey. You clearly made a single journey though.


No. Splitting is using multiple tickets to make a single journey - even if you still pay more than a through ticket would be.


If you had chosen to abandon your journey due to the disruption, you would have been entitled to a refund. But you chose to extend your journey and completed that journey within the threshold for delay repay. You are not due anything.


That is debatable.

If I'd got off I'd have completed A - B . and claimed there and then. If I then make another journey from B - C that is a new journey if it's on time i've paid for the service timetabled.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Where is the fraud? I was late on my train to B, if I'd claimed there and then for A - B then bought to C then I'd be in my rights.

But you didn't do this, you in effect turned your a-b journey into an a-c journey.

 

[miklcct]

But you didn't do this, you in effect turned your a-b journey into an a-c journey.

I would say that, because the a-b journey was late that I missed my event, so I had to immediately do my b-c journey for my second event on the day. I can't see any fraud here.

 

[Haywain]

Would you claim Delay Repay if;

I think you've got the drift of how we choose to answer that question, and it's an answer you don't like. As you are now arguing with the answers you are given it's not clear why you asked.

 

[WesternLancer]

If it was with Greater Anglia (see the longish thread to D-R fraud investigation), probably already been flagged up with BTP 'for a chat' - even before you send in the claim...

 

[Runningaround]

Had you been planning to nip out at B and visit a shop or meet a friend between trains, and this was foiled by the delay as you had to press on to C, I'd tend to think that would be justifiable for a claim.

I was planning to go to B. If I'd been notified earlier I'd stayed home and claimed my A - B full ticket refund as I'd not made the trip. If the cancellation of the event had been after I'd have got off at B I would have claimed for A - B's 30 min+ delay. If then I looked at the fixture list while in B and seen C's fixture was doable i'd have bought a return to C.
Staying on the train has cost me extra as you lot here say you cannot claim for an A - B ticket if you also have a B - C ticket.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think you've got the drift of how we choose to answer that question, and it's an answer you don't like. As you are now arguing with the answers you are given it's not clear why you asked.

Good point - I note the OP has not asked 'should I claim?' but 'would you claim' ie posed the question to other forum members, who have answered.

 

[skyhigh]

Staying on the train has cost me extra as you lot here say you cannot claim for an A - B ticket if you also have a B - C ticket.

'Us lot here' say you can't claim for an A - B ticket when you also have a B - C ticket and travel from A - C on a single train, yes, that is correct.

 

[WesternLancer]

Staying on the train has cost me extra as you lot here say you cannot claim for an A - B ticket if you also have a B - C ticket.

Not re checked all the posts but not sure anyone has actually said that you cannot claim. Apols if I am wrong about it.

edited due to post #25

 

[Runningaround]

If it was with Greater Anglia (see the longish thread to D-R fraud investigation), probably already been flagged up with BTP 'for a chat' - even before you send in the claim...

Explain the fraud? I don't see any difference to travelling A - B at 13:30 being 30 mins late as a journey on it's own, then travelling 14:30 from B - C as a separate journey. to staying on the train. If I'd bought A - C in full or as a split and it was late at B It would be a false claim. I paid to travel to B it was 30 mins late and was rammed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Mar 2022 ==

Simply making the point that the railway does not revolve around football fixtures.

Tickets split where two ticket are used for a single journey. It does not only mean using two tickets to save money.

No but it makes a significant amount of money from travelling supporters and has traditionally made amendments for them.( Except for City and LFC semi-finals)

 

[miklcct]

'Us lot here' say you can't claim for an A - B ticket when you also have a B - C ticket and travel from A - C on a single train, yes, that is correct.

Assume the following situation:
I have an A-B ticket and a B-C ticket, where the A-B train goes to C and scheduled to be overtaken between B-C, both operator-specific advance. A-B and B-C are different operators (let's say LNER and Grand Central).

Because the LNER A-B train runs late causing me to miss my Grand Central B-C connection, I buy a single walk-up any permitted B-C in order to continue on the same train instead of waiting for another B-C train by Grand Central. Here, my planned journey is A-B-C with LNER from A to B and a transfer at B to Grand Central, which I abandon at B due to delay and make another B-C journey LNER instead. In this case I find it justifiable to make a claim against my original A-B ticket and a fee-free refund of the original B-C ticket since my intention is to make a single journey on both LNER and Grand Central, using 2 tickets, for the A-C journey, and I can't complete the scheduled journey (i.e. using LNER between A-B and Grand Central between B-C).